By Gregg Warnken on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:23 am: Edit

Hey everybody, I am in the process of researching/shopping for a '96 to '98 Disco, and have been reading every thread here that I can squeeze in at work . I gotta say I am on the fast path to being a Roverholic! My question is...what is everyone's preference for transmissions (I am sure NO ONE has an opinion LOL)? I am partial to manuals as I feel they last longer and offer more flexibility off road, and that it is cheaper to replace a clutch than a transmission. Any input on lifespan of a 5 speed vs. manual, and performance off-road? I do realize that 97 was the last year for NA manuals, and they are very hard to find. Thanks in advance for the input! I can't wait to find the right truck and get out there...way out there.

Gregg

By Ron on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:02 pm: Edit

I am partial to manuals as I feel they last longer and offer more
flexibility off road,

You got it half right.

and that it is cheaper to replace a clutch than a
transmission.

You will probably have to replace both on a manual

Any input on lifespan of a 5 speed vs. manual, and performance off-road?

The latter is driver based but on the former say 100-125k tops for an R380, and I would say that all the LT77s n the US have been replaced by now or should be , much less if you actually use an R380 too, 200k+ for a ZF easy

Ron

Rover does not make good trannies, ZF does

PS I actually prefer manuals but the zf is way better

By Gregg Warnken on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 12:47 pm: Edit

Thanks for the quick reply Ron. Hmmm...this changes my thinking a bit as I plan on keeping this vehicle as long as possible. I have heard good things about the ZFs...funny one would think the opposite was true in terms of lifespan. How can you tell if the Disco in question has an R380 or an LT77? These were manufactured by LR? Is it by year, or was there a recall? It looks like I might need to look at some 98 autos...Thanks for the input Ron, I really have enjoyed readng your comments on all the threads. Anyone else have an opinion?? I know there are some 5 speed owners here...any horror stories?

By Drew on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:16 pm: Edit

i think all manual discos came with the R380, but you can tell the differance between them by the location of reverse gear if it is below 5th gear then it is a R380. the LT77s reverse is next to 1st gear.

By ZPukajlo on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:03 pm: Edit

I agree with Ron on this. My '97 SD has a A/T. I love it. The torque converter on them is biased towards off-roading. It gives great control and you won't miss having to slip the clutch. Its almost like having a M/T. You will lose a little performance off the line because of this, but this isn't a sports car! Pre-98s will have the LT77s. Post-98s will have the R380. Hope this helps!

Zane

By Gregg Warnken on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Thanks Drew and Zane. I guess my initial reasoning for the 5 speed was control off road and durability. So far it sounds like the A/T is much more durable and the control is still there (most important). Looks like I am gonna go test a few autos. Anyone have out there have a 5 speed Disco that has gone the distance??

Gregg

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 05:53 pm: Edit

I've got a '95 5-speed and I love it -- so far only 50K miles, but it has survived my wife driving it like a Lambroghini for four years (speed shifting every gear, generally driving like a bat out of hell). Personally, I HATE automatics period -- I will be the one to decide which gear to use at any particular moment, thank you very much.

True, the manual transmission requires more skill from the driver off-road, but it also gives you more flexibility. Just try rocking yourself out of a mud hole with an automatic. Who needs a winch if you can drive a stick?

Besides, everybody knows that automatics are for sissies...

---Norm

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 07:55 pm: Edit

gregg,
you should hear the manual tranny discos in some more technical trails.
carry a spare starter if you go with 5 speed.

By MTB on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Hell Norm after that kick in the BALLS I don't think any of us Auto Box drivers will see our Balls for a while.

SISSY Michael B

By Keith Zack on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 02:49 am: Edit

Gregg,

If this vehicle is going to be a much used heavy off-roader, get an auto box. I used to think along the same lines as you, til I got out to some 'real' trails, the autos had the advantage. However, if you aren't gonna be on the trails too much or they aren't that difficult, you could consider a stick because as far as on road driving goes with an auto, I have one word for you..BORING. BTW, I know of one Disco with 150k with original 5speed tranny and original clutch with no problems, but this just may be luck of the draw. I have a 5speed Disco and looking for another, they're not too hard to find.

Keith Zack

By gil on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:18 am: Edit

my 97 5-speed has the R380. 97 was the last year the good ol us of a got the manual Disco. i wouldnt even consider an automatic, especially for trail use. the control you have over the motor with the stick can not be matched by the auto box. sure it takes a little getting used to, the way the thing is geared in 1st low you dont even need to use the throttle to get it over low speed technical obstacles. its like learning to drive all over again, but once you do, you will never go back. as Ho said, the noise is whole nuther bag o worms. for some reason, for which I have yet to get a satisfactory answer as to why, the manual box make more banging and clanging noise than anything ive ever heard before. anyone know the reason the manual box is so "sloppy" off-road, im assuming its because there are alot of differentials and alot of torque running thru it in low range, but i could be way off. On road, the 5-speed and the Auto do NOT compare. the 5-speed is actually alot of fun to drive, even with 265/75s the thing is still quick off the line and again the way its geared means you rarely have to use the brakes. Get the 5-speed, take some time to get used to it and you will be a very satisifed rover owner. anyway, my 2 cents

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:31 am: Edit

sissy? oh now you have done it. the LR gods are going to punish you to the fullish for this one. you may just lose a mud flap on this one buddy.

and BTW i dig my sissy automatic. i can sip my tea and eat my crumpet on the way to my ballet class much easier this way.

By Ron on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:32 am: Edit

I am told (though have never seen one) that they very early 94 disco 5 speeds were LT 77s.

Ron

There are several issues with the manuals that make them "sloppy" to use Gils phasing.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:13 am: Edit

gil, have you driven an auto box disco offroad? hehe... it's more reliable and simply better. lets see how much you like pushing that clutch in and out after 12hours on the trail.

who cares about on road performance... it's a land rover. i didn't buy it cause it's peppy or "quick off the line"


rd

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:22 am: Edit

A while back on one of the other boards, somebody said that he got rid of his 5-speed Disco in favor of an automatic because he was tired of getting brown stains on the inside of his pants when he went off road.

Well, dammit, if you don't get into situations off road where you occasionally crap your pants, what's the point? That's what those $199 seat covers from Atlantic British are for.

Besides, like good sex, full-tilt off-roading gets messy sometimes, both inside and outside the cab -- otherwise, you're not doing it right.

---Norm

By Gregg Warnken on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:40 am: Edit

Uh oh looks like I opened a can o' worms (hehehe). Thanks for all the input everyone. I have been a manual tranny driver ever since my 1st car ('63 Corvair convertible, still have it), and just like being in control of the transmission. My 89 Audi 90 has 230K on the 5 speed and still works flawlessly. My first clutch lasted 180K. Not really worried about on road performance in the Disco, that is what my Audi is for . This truck is gonna be for OFF road fun, just like what is was built for. I think I would have more trouble getting used to the auto rather than the 5 speed offroad(no problem clutching for 12 hrs, left thigh is HUGE lol) although my knee could use replacement. I drove a 87 manual the other day and was pleased initially with the feel and driveability.

Gregg
(still leaning towards 5 speed)

By gil on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:52 am: Edit

gregg...keep leaning that way...i never said the auto was "sissy", sure the auto is easier off-road, but is it about being "easy"? 12 hours of clutch dumping? no problem.

By gil on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:56 am: Edit

"who cares about on road performance... it's a land rover. i didn't buy it cause it's peppy or "quick off the line"

no, i didnt buy it because its "quick off the line" either, but it sure is a nice bonus. unfortunately, I do have to use paved roads everyday, and actually being able to get of your own way is a good thing.

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:00 am: Edit

I drive an auto, and want a manual. If I drove a manual, I'll bet I'd want an auto. Is that clear?

MR. Sissy

By L_Tilly on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:18 am: Edit

I have been a manual-addict forever. Except for rentals and gov't vehicles I've never driven anything else. My only other 4x4 was a (don't laugh) 5-spd Bronco II and our other car is a 5-spd Saturn. When we bought our Disco we went w/ the auto partly as a compromose to my wife (she likes manuals for cars but prefers autos in heavier vehicles).

I have to say that it only took me one time out on a "good" trail w/ my local club to appreciate the auto. Placed in 3L the auto always seemed to be in the right gear for flats and climbs. Driving over obsticles is easy w/ my left foot on the break and right foot on the gas (15 years of driving standards helps the corrdination!). Down hill I just put it in 1L and it walks at just the right pace. I rarely need to touch the break unless I'm coming up on a sharp turn or obsticle.

When we eventually replace our 200k+ Saturn, it will be with another manual. However, I'm sold on the auto in the Disco.

L_Tilly lnctilly@mediaone.net
96 Disco "Beowulf" - NH, USA

By C. Ross on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 06:02 am: Edit

Well,

I guess I can chime in. If you use it for a daily driver and have very far to commute I'd opt for the automatic. Stop and go traffic will give you thighs like Arnold and if your office isnt casual you'll be wishing it was. The off road abilities are going to be argued both ways. I have an auto in the disco and the D90 is the R380. When I drive the D90 to work I realize how much I miss the Disco and not having to shift in traffic. There are several D90 owners that have made the conversion to slushbox.

The 5 speed is fun to drive for a little while but it can get old quick.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 06:54 am: Edit

no, i didnt buy it because its "quick off the line" either, but it sure is a nice bonus. unfortunately,
I do have to use paved roads everyday, and actually being able to get of your own way is a good
thing.

i guess...

speed just dosent bother me. my trooper had big tires on it and that little chevy 2.8 v6 so it was slow as sin, no big deal. so long as i'm bigger than the guy next to me i have right of way.

i do like haveing less fatigue offroad, fatigue leads to errors. i dont like errors.

rd

By Gregg Warnken on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

Man I love this place! Just as I suspected...much of this issue falls into personal preference. To each his own transmission... Again I am not so worried about pavement driving...I can handle slow onroad with either one. I think I will be happier off road with the 5 speed as Gil says...I can talk on my cellphone, hold my Starbucks coffee, shave, and flick off pissy drivers all while grabbing a 3rd gear downshift with the best soccer moms...I guess I am looking for a consensus on the durability issue. I really appreciate everyone's input!

Ho - Can you shed some light on your comment about tranny noise and starters?? I would gather that if one stalls the motor alot it is gonna take a toll on the starter..is that what you are implying? Does the transfer case just not get along as well with the manual?

Some spoke of an advantage to an auto on the tougher trails...I won't be doing Helicopter Pad at Tellico (not too far from Atlanta though), but plan on doing moderate to reasonably difficult stuff once my feet are thoroughly wet and I have made the proper mods. I have seen people practically destroy vehicles off road with the "Do it or die trying" approach. I don't think that will be me however...

Gregg

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

yes gregg, stalling, starting, stalling, starting.
i guess it depends on how much control of the clutch you have.

to all the people out there that say auto is for sissy, i'll be sissy anyday.

By ZPukajlo on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:30 am: Edit

Mine is a daily driver. Since the traffic here in CO is getting worse it is a bonus to not have to push in the clutch anymore. As far as zipping through traffic my 4.0 seems exceptionally strong, so that isn't a problem either. I'll agree that I always thought that a M/T was better in the dirt than an A/T. The ZF in the LR changed my thinking completely. Put it in 3L and you will go up that hill quicker or go across that mud hole further than with the manual. The auto also takes away the advantage that the manual had in descending hills. Read my previous post on that one. As for mileage I don't think either one has an advantage over the other. I'll also agree that you have better flexibility with the M/T over an A/T. But overall the ZF is way better.

Zane

Ps I could be wrong but if you break a manual tranny it could cost quite a bit. Remember that they don't put them in NAS Disco's anymore.

By Ron on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:58 am: Edit

I guess I am looking for a consensus on the durability issue.

Ask the D90 guys. Read the LR mags. I don't think anyone can say the manual will last longer.

Ron

By Slider on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Did Someone say Tiptronic???

I hope not.

By 200 Tdi on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Did anyone tell gregg about the lower gear ratios on the manual box.
39:1 overall low/low - petrol manual
~28:1 overall low/low - auto

and 43:1 low/low for diesels if you can find one

That extra engine braking really helps down steep hills

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Aw, the total surrender to A/T was just a concession to the mall crawlin' soccer mom set who buy more LRs than anybody, primarily as a fashion accessory...

---Norm

"Aw, yer mudder wears combat boots"

"So's yer old man"

By Chuck on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 05:54 am: Edit

I've been thinking about this topic for a while as I'm looking into a disco as well. I definitely don't mind driving stick and plan on keeping my Z. What is the opinion as far as towing goes?? TIA

Chuck

By Gregg Warnken on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

Thanks everyone for your reponses...this is exactly what I was looking for! I now have the info needed to make an educated decision...well at least on the transmission Next, I am putting together a checklist of known issues/potential problem areas to look for ie. rust, peeling clearcoat, leaky diffs/transfer case, and so on...after I search the archives a bit more, it may be time to start another thread!

Gregg

By notsteve2 on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Gregg,

Screw that serious stuff, what color are you getting?

somebodylikesteve

By Gregg Warnken on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 06:10 am: Edit

LOL the really important questions surface....probably some shade of blue or green (not TEAL or mint). No white, black, red, or gold for me! Other than that, I am far more picky about the condition of the truck...besides, it won't be long before it is covered with scratches! I really like the '98 50th anniversiary edition...Woodcote green...but I fear I will have a hard time finding one of those in my price range (<$20K)

Gregg