By herky on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Has anyone done this? Is it a better setup instead of drag on motor? Just curious like to hear everyones opinions. Would the power increase be significant,I realize the disco's are not fast. Matt

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:29 am: Edit

Electric drive water pumps are for short term use only and do not flow nearly enough to cool a constantly running engine - their main use is before run and after run cooling of 1/4 mile cars. Also they draw current like crazy!

By Perrone Ford on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:58 am: Edit

Are you sure about this Bill? I've seen electric water pumps on some endurance engines as well. But I do agree, they draw some serious current.

I'd say forget the electric fans unless you live in a pretty cool climate. Anywhere that has consistent temperatures above 85-90F I would keep the viscous. Our radiators are just not efficient enough to keep the truck cool with electics. Remeber, you have coolant passing through there, an oil cooler passing through the side tanks, and on the autos, you have a tranny cooler passing through the other heat exchanger (its this way on the rangie and I think the disco is the same) so there is a LOT of hot fluid looking for cooling.

-P

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:39 am: Edit

There are electric water pumps for street use now. Several years ago the 1/4 mile only rule was correct.

I have been using a electric fan on my daily driver for years and have NEVER had a problem. I live in the central valley of California and 100+ days in the summer are all to common. The electric fan pulls 100% of rated air flow 100% of the time. A engine driven fan in town or stop and go traffic can't come close to moving the air volume of an electric fan. I enjoy A/C that works in town and in traffic as well as it does on the freeway at 70. I have been crawling rocks for years and an a high quality electric fan can't be beat, and having the ability to turn it off for water/mud crossings helps keep the motor dry and clean. The 10-15 hp and the improved fuel mileage is just an added benefit


Electric water pumps:
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/newproduct.html
Meziere remote
http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=MZE-WP116
Meziere for Buick/rover
http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=MZE-WP125

BTW they only pull 6-7 amps!

By Jeff on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:49 am: Edit

"The electric fan pulls 100% of rated air flow"

What is the rated air flow?

I have wondered what this is, then I could simply go to a junk yard, find a car that has electric fans that are rated high enough and yank the fans, thermostat, and relay.

I am thinking fans out of a 90's Camero, I don't know if they will be good enough for the aluminum engine, but a lot of guys use them on their Jeeps.

By Perrone Ford on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:50 am: Edit

Yea,

The Meziere is about the best on the market! Most people aren't talking about top quality stuff when this kind of thing comes up.

As for the fans, that's pretty interesting. I've never been able to get an accurate CFM for the viscous fan. But on any number of occasions I have talked to owners who have switched to electric fans and they are all running hot. I really have to disagree with your assertion that the electics move more air. In every HD tow rig I have ever seen, the fan is viscous, not electric. And when optioning out trucks, they always specify viscous fans in HD situations because they move more air.

What type of coolant temperatures are you seeing with your electric fan on those 95-100F days? I know my viscous fan has me hovering at about 190-194 in traffic here in sunny Florida.

-P

By Perrone Ford on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:55 am: Edit

Jeff,

Take a trip over to the web page for flex-a-lite. They have pretty good info on flow ratings for electic fans. I looked at this pretty thoroughly about 2 years ago but when owners started telling me how hot they ran, even with the dual 12" fans pulling over 2400 CFM, I decided to leave well enough alone!

Brian Bonner switched over to dual 12s (1994 D90)on his cross country trek. He went from running at about 198-204 to running at over 230. He tossed the fan, ordered a new viscous one from RN while waiting in a hotel, and then finished his trip. And the D90s don't have tranny coolers running through the radiator, or blocking the bottom 1/4 of the radiator like our trucks.

-P

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 06:33 am: Edit

Sounds like Brian had other problems. If a electric fan is going to fail to cool something it's going to be at low speed not on the freeway. Speeds above 50 the fan has very little to do with cooling.

D-90.com still has there electric fan tech up, so the problems you speak of can't be wide spead.
http://www.d-90.com/mod/fan.html

I really don't understand this comment:
"Most people aren't talking about top quality stuff when this kind of thing comes up.

The Rover community usually has to pay 2x the cost for custom parts compared to other makes. When we have high quality mass produced parts available you prefer to go cheap? Perhaps a chebby is a better choice for you. There is nothing cheap about being a Rover owner.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 06:39 am: Edit

Jeff as far as used OEM fans go . The Fan out of a Ford Taurus is preferred by the rock crawling community. I have seem many keep 5.7 liters of engine cool in a rig with a 125:1 crawl ratio on a 90 degree day. My Local Pick n Pull sels them for $30.00

By al hang on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 06:44 am: Edit

" The 12 volt motor will work for limited use applications."

I see that they are approved for street use but that little disclaimer is enough for me not to get one. As far as electric fans are concerned I would agree, setup correctly electrics are a good choice.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 06:49 am: Edit

AL you did not read it right! Thats for 16 volt apps!

"When purchasing a pump for a 16 volt system we recommend the 18 volt motor option. The 12 volt motor will work for limited use applications. "

Many race cars use a 16 volt system so that they can get a hotter spark.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 07:13 am: Edit

Water Pumps -

I guess the main point is why?? Substituting a part that WILL fail (I don't care who makes it) for a belt/crank driven item that works essentially forever on millions of vehicles is ridiculous. If you want daily reliablility and a "get home" truck, you'd be insane to switch. If you want a 1/4 mile car or trail rig that you trailer everywhere - have at it.

By Perrone Ford on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 07:14 am: Edit

Robert,

When I mentioned paying high prices, I wasn't talking about myself. If you ever have a look around my truck, you'll see that I usually have the heaviest duty stuff money can buy. I don't consider Genuine to be the best stuff though.

My comments really stem from people who DO cheap out on things unnecessarily. I've been able to save money on parts by purchasing upscale aftermarket. A good example is my exhaust. I went for universal cats and a flowmaster. I could find NO information on this when I did mine over a year ago. It was cheaper than the LR solution and in my opinion is higher quality.

And I have a Chevy in the family, as well as a BMW, and soon to add an Isuzu or Mitsu, and a Mercedes Unimog. I know ALL about expensive parts! You don't have to attack me to make your point.

As for Brian's problems, I don't know that he didn't have other associated issues, but the return to the viscous fan made his truck run cooler. I have heard the viscous fan come on at highway speed in a number of Land Rovers so evidently, moving at highway speeds doesn't nullify the effect of a good fan at certain times.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 10:48 am: Edit

Bill- I'm not trying to build a trailer queen just Improving the breed.


The stock belt pump will fail and when It does ,I will go electric. It's only a 125.00 more than the OEM pump. All my machinery things have been modified from stock. My 1946 Garwood speed boat with a Chrysler Marine flathead enjoys some benefits of updating and my Century Arabian is much more fun with 500 hp that it was with 330 in stock trim. My Scouts mods are to numinous to count. Is your disco as it was when it left Solihull ?

Without a water pump to drive the unibelt might just have to drive a rotary compressor for on board air :0)


Perrone I was not trying to get personal, Just a quick jab trying to make some fun out of it all. Some Graemlins would of helped make my point. I wish this was a UBB board!

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:01 am: Edit

Robert - of course my truck isn't as it was when it left the factory (what fun would that be - we'd have nothing to talk about on this board ), but having experienced electric driven water pumps in sevral apps - I don't like them at all and I think they're prone for failure. But more importantly, look at your ROI (return on investment) - how much *useable* HP are you going to free up by making the switch on a 180 horse engine - by the time you get through the ZF and to your wheels you've already lost 50% of your total - so freeing up a couple ponies at the crank doesn't make any sense. Sure they make sense on 1/4 mile cars (BTDT) where everthing you can shut down for that run can add 100ths or 1000ths, but for a fun and reliable drive to the trail and drive home Disco - the logic just isn't there.

OK - off the soapbox

Have fun - install what you want

By Perrone Ford on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:26 am: Edit

Ok Robert,

No harm no foul!

By Steve (Steve2) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 11:42 am: Edit

in ready august issue LRO - the guy who own's protrax says electric fans are fine for domestic (uk use) - but does not recommend them for hotter climes - ie morocco. intersting as i thought the much vaunted kenlowes were supposed to be great

steve

By br on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 09:38 am: Edit

Steve,
I live in Colorado and fitted a twin 13" Kenlowe fan last month. It seems to be working fine and my last trip up to Winter park for the weekend gave me 380 miles on one tank of fuel.
I was impressed. I'm just waiting to see if I get an increase around town.
Britdaz

By al hang on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 05:53 am: Edit

380??? was it all down hill driving? I get 240 to a tank of premium unlead, with my 32's and other accessories. When I was stock I squeezed 275 out of a full tank, 380 is a little hard to believe. Anyone else have mileage numbers?

-Al

By Andrew Vick (Afv) on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 06:55 am: Edit

I get MAX 300, also live in Colorado, and couldn't dream of getting 380 to WP and back.

By pdx_rover on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 07:50 am: Edit

br.. where did you find your kenlowe fans?

By Eric Brodis (Broder) on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 07:59 am: Edit

If I drive a lot of highway miles I can get 350 per tank. However, that is only if I keep my speed down and correct miles for 32" tires.

eric
Denver, Co
95 Disco 5sp

By britdaz on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit

Well guys, believe it or not the milage is true. I used to get about 300 miles per tank, until I fitted the fan. I purchased the Kenlowe fan from the UK for about $150 and took two days to install (well I am a bit anul when it comes to working on the LR). The website is www.kenlowe.com.
I am on my second tank of fuel now and am at 285 miles with a 1/4 tank to go. I'm not to sure about the tires, but I have 215/75/16. I think they are snow tires.
Will a K&N filter give me anymore milage

By Andrew Vick (Afv) on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:41 am: Edit

I believe it, but just really jealous

By ZPukajlo on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Well, I get between 270 and 280 on three-quarters of a tank. And that is city driving! I figure I should get another 100 or so with straight highway driving. I live in CO also. The D1 is completely stock. No electric fans or pump.

Zane