Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	'95 Disco window seals and more...	1		09/17 01:10am

By Gallagher on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Need some input from the Disco BB. We are looking to buy our first Disco and are interested in any advice at all in helping us make an "educated" purchase. We have found a 96' SE-7 w/67,000 miles with all of the features we have been looking for. The Disco is being sold by a independant import dealer who has a reputation for repairing and selling a fair amount of RR's and Discos. There is a Land Rover dealer in town(Grand Rapids, Mi)but all they have on the lot right now are lightly used Series II's and they are a little out of our price range. The Disco would be used primarily for family transportation, trips to northern Michigan and maybe, just maybe some "mild" offroad use. I am somewhat proficient mechanically, having worked on Saabs and Volvos and am not afraid to bust some knuckles for DIY work and troubleshooting. If there is any problem areas for this year and model, I would like to know about them and any other advice you could provide would be greatly appreicated. Thxs. Gregg Gallagher

By Steve (Steve2) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 07:52 am: Edit

gregg-

the '96 was supposedly part of the 'troubled years' at land rover. but there good ones and bad ones in every year. as with any used car have it thoroughly checked by a mechanic you trust and hopefully has some knowledge of land rovers. important to see is the service history re: oil changes and the like.

things i've read that go belly up are alternators, oil seals, and camshafts. not sure what years these are though. also there are some threads lately about blocked radiators which may be a result of poor maintenance than anything else. look for accident damage and the like - also land rover have a great new lease on the series II $2800 total drive off and $399 a month.

not sure what they are asking for the car but it should be in the mid teens.

best of luck
steve

By Al on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 08:25 am: Edit

if i lease can i add bumpers,lift,and sliders
to it?
What happens when lease over?
thx

By Mike P. (Mikep) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 08:50 am: Edit

Al,

I don't know what the limitations are to the mods you can add while leasing. I do know that my dealer told me when i added the brush guard and lights, I'd have to take them off or bite the bullet and give 'em away when the lease comes due. I don't put huge miles on so I will probably exercise the buyout when it comes off lease. My guess is you'll have to put it back to stock when you turn it in. You can also sell it before the lease is up just like a car loan.

Mike

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

Al -

Another thing you HAVE to be sure of if you are in a lease condition is that the bumpers, sliders, etc. don't cause modification to other parts of the vehicle regarding trimmming and the like.

Also - I started out with a lease, but then just bought it out. Was the cost of similar vehicles at the time and I knew the history. A good trail-rig was born the day i paid off that balance, but not before. If you are in a lease, you may want to modify something else or just wait unless you don't mind the potential of a buyout at the end. The other incidental damage from off-roading (nicks, dents, etc.) all have to be fixed in occordinance to LR guidelines (read: use their expensive recommended bodyshop) to avoid charges at the end. Also - even if it is fixed perfectly, the lease agreement reads that you may still have to pay penalties.

Tom

By L_Tilly on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

Gregg,

My wife & I bought our 96 Disco in Nov'00, and I wish I would have found this website prior to that purchase! I would have still bought the truck, but would have haggled the price a little better! To do what you need to for "pre-purchase checks" you're going to want the Disco for an afternoon, atleast. If any dealer is not willing to let you drive it around for a full business day to be sure it's all in order, then you do NOT want to buy from there (they're probably trying to unload the truck before you find a problem).

First, take the rig to the local dealership and have them do a check. Call their service desk ahead of time, and tell them you're looking at buying a used Disco and let them know what you'd like them to do. They will have a charge (some have said around $100 or so) but it's MUCH less than fixing a problem after the fact. Ask them to pull the vehicle's maintenance records first. Among the other items, there's a womper of a service at 60k which it appears many leasees decide to skip since they are returning the vehicles at about that same time. If it has been in for it's regular work, then ask them to verify everything is in order as far as the requirements for the vehicle's corrosion warranty. If they say "yes", then get them to put it in writing! If you want more detail on this issue, do a Keyword Search (to the left) for "rust". :-) If the vehicle has not been serviced, then I'd suggest looking around for another.

As long as the service reports are all in order, have the dealer do a quick maintenance check. I asked a local mechanic that I've had great dealings with to check out our Disco before purchse and he found a few items which I managed to get the seller to fix. However, the mechanic was not familiar with the Disco's locking center diff (neither was I), and we only checked the Hi/Lo (which was perfect). It turned out that the rig had probably never had its diff locked up and as a result it's "frozen" (there's another good search). The LR dealer would probably already know the danger zones, but be sure to have them verify the swivel seals (another good keyword).

All that said, if I could go back in time I would still make the same purchase (just bargin the price a little more). For what we were about to pay for either a cherokee or rodeo, we got the Disco. Even while spending a few hours a week under the truck trying to fix four years of mall-crawler neglect (poor truck), I have never questioned the purchase.

If you want to chat more about any of these issues or such, drop me a line either here or directly via email.

L_Tilly lnctilly@mediaone.net
96 Disco "Beowulf" - NH, USA

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 09:32 am: Edit

Hey Gregg nice name! I am in the same boat as you. I have been researching Discos for a few months now, attempting to discover the trouble areas and best/worst year of Disco to own. I have discovered HUGE amounts of knowledge here at Discoweb with all the friendly people. Do some searching around here in Tech Discussions and in the Archives, and read all you can. Here are some things you may find interesting:

1) On the '96: Trouble spots on this year were valve problems (ie could be very expensive prob) make sure it has had the valve job as I think there was a recall on this? Also the first year for the 4.0 engine. 67,000 miles is not bad, but you may consider looking for a '98 with a little warranty left on it (Discos came with 4 yr 50K warranty) or buy an extended warranty. Build quality is better on the later years. Don't skimp a few bucks on purchase price as you will pay for it later!!!

2) RUST: Especially where you are in Michigan, check ALL the door jambs very carefully for rust, as well as the raingutter tray and any place where two body panels are bonded (rear door jambs seem to rust even in Atlanta, seen a 98 with LOTS) Look around the door skins, as well as the area on the door where the door skin and window trim meet. Also check around the Alpine windows. If you find a truck with a little rust, you may be able to live with it. If it has lots, just move on to the next Disco.

3) Stick with the auto transmission, it is much more durable (although the 5 speed isn't bad if you baby it)

4) Spend some time crawling around the vehicle, top and bottom. Look for leaks around the differential and transfer case, and overspray where bodywork may have taken place. Look at as many Discos as you can...different years, etc. Dont buy the first one you see. These are great vehicles but like all vehicles you need to find one that was taken care of and used properly. I have seen a great variance in vehicle condition, even in the '97 and '98 model years, and prices reflect that usually.

5) As far as features go, most Discos after 96 are fairly well loaded. The SD trim level many times does not have sunroofs and leather (I hear the cloth is more durable anyway). Other than that the only "options" were jump seats, rear air, CD Changer, and stuff like running boards and brush guards.

6) Buy the best possible Disco you can afford. Even if the one you want is a little more than you want to pay...it will probably cost you less than one that needs work in the long run.

7) Sounds like your guy is reputable in LRs; have him or someone like him inspect the vehicle before you drive it away. Be sure the transfer case works as well. They tend to stick if they were never locked. Check this only off-pavement.

8) Color!! Lighter colors don't show scratches as easily...also check the clear coat to make sure it isn't bubbling anywhere.

9) See if there are any auto brokers in your area that will buy you a car at auction for cost + a little profit. LR holds auctions around the country for lease returns once a month for dealers. I found a guy here in Atlanta that will buy me the vehicle for the auction price + $500. You can check out the cars a day or two before the auction takes place if you accompany the broker. Imagine saving $5-9,000 on a Disco vs. the damn dealer!!!!! That way you can afford a little nicer truck

Happy hunting! Sorry for the long winded reply but it is hard to contain my excitement for these trucks...one more thing you might want to check into Roverholics Anonymous

Gregg

By Steve (Steve2) on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 03:06 pm: Edit

al

if you are planning to buy the car at the end of the lease, then mods should not be a problem. just be sure you check with your l/r centre to make sure there are no warranty issues. most are pretty cool about it. i had a totally tricked you yeip and appraised stronger than normal- the yeip dealer made a mint on me! would of kept the yeip but the amount the bank would lend for the car $14k vs the buy out $18K meant that i had to shell out $4k! so off to land rover i went.....

my mom leased/bought her crv and we are modifing it like crazy. put a arb 'a' bar, hella 500's and front mounted fuba d-flex antenna so far. she want to roof mount her spare and put a colour keyed jerry can on the tail gate - GO MOM!

By AL on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Good job Steve,
Thats what i call a 4x4 familly
Since my last post i checked out some lease options with LR.
They have a real good deal.
Thx for all info
P.S
Can u trade lease with lease?

By Gil Stevens (Gil) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:13 am: Edit

"3) Stick with the auto transmission, it is much more durable (although the 5 speed isn't bad if you baby it)"

1) the 5-speed is plenty durable and does not need to be babied. where did all this anti-sediment toward the manual box come from? granted you shouldnt drive the thing like a race car, but saying you need to "baby" a Rover tranny is insane. i know there are a few us left-wing manual tranny drivers on here, and Id bet that none of us baby them. i know i dont.

"On the '96: Trouble spots on this year were valve problems (ie could be very expensive prob) make sure it has had the valve job "

2) valves can be and are an issue on ALL 4.0s. 96 thru 2001, not just 96. ive seen 99s and 2000s get valve jobs at sub-20,000 miles.


" Imagine saving $5-9,000 on a Disco vs. the damn dealer!!!!!"

3) $5000-$9000.00?!??! there isnt a dealer around making 9 grand on a pre-owned Disco. Get the thing from a dealer, the certification isnt bullshit, and on these rigs it makes good sense. you get the checklist of what has been done, so if somethign is faulty you have something to fall back on, plus you get a 1 year 12 k warranty included instead of having to shell out for it. it makes sense.

one thing i do agree with---buy a 98 or newer, they still have factory warranty balance plus certified warranty. i currently have 98 certified discos ranging from $22,000-$26,000 all with under 35,000 miles. if you are going to be financing the new toy, then you defintely want to go with a newer year and less mileage, otherwise you will find yourself way upside down if you ever try to get out of it before the end of the note.

oh, and dont pay any more than $15,000-$16,000 for a 65,000 mile 96 Disco. good luck

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 07:01 am: Edit

Gil - Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way on the 5 speeds. Actually the 5 speed is my preference. I asked this question a week or so ago, and the feedback I got was that if you are interested in long-term durability (more than 100-125K out of a tranny) the ZF would last LONGER. I would assume if you "baby" (my word) the tranny you may get more life out of the transmission. This info came from people like Ron and Ho, who obviously have a great deal of experience with Discos (not saying you don't). Even with all this info, I may still get a 5 speed. Just trying to pass on what I heard

And yeah, $5-9k savings on a Disco Gil...I have been looking at '98 LEs and LSEs...they list for $20-26K in Atlanta (sure they probably go for less). When I am ready I should be able to get one for around $16-17K from a broker (plus T,T&T). With a warranty. After it has been checked out. I don't disagree with you on the certification, it does make good sense. However, I don't need to buy my LR at the pretty LR dealership and pay their overhead to get a good machine. The trucks with mechanical problems at the auction are tagged. Yes, the dealers keep the best trucks on their lot from the auction. However, this month in Atlanta there are over 100 Discos on the block. I WILL be inspecting all trucks I am considering at the lot. I have looked at 30 or so Discos so far...been crawling under cars since I could crawl..I trust my judgement. Can I find ONE at the auction for the price I want that suits my ultra picky nature?? Watch me...I will post the pics of my truck when I find the right one! It will probably be an auto though, since the 97s aren't covered under factory warranty (I guess I could spring for the extended warranty). I know dealers gotta make a buck...but they aren't getting mine! But that is just me. I don't like car salesmen....No hard feelings Gil??

My $.02

Gregg

By gil on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 07:25 am: Edit

no hard feelings at all...most people cant stand car salesmen...if you can find sub 30k 98s at auction in atlanta for 16-17 , by all means let me know...im paying at least 19 thru auction in PA. forget the 97s, its not worth springing for the warranty when you can get a 98 that already has one. when i go to auction, of the 100+ trucks that run, maybe 10 or less would be acceptable to put on my lot, so you will have some searching to do, put being that you are "ultra picky" you should be alright. one thing i have noticed thru years of buying cars especially these cars, make SURE the odometer, the pedal wear, and the tire wear all coinside. i cant tell you how many cars ive seen with 25k on the odo, non-oem tires, and a very worn brake pedal. kinda makes you go hmmmm....also watch out for "buybacks", they all go thru auction and are NOT tagged. just a heads up...i hope you find the right machine...

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 09:51 am: Edit

That is good advice Gil...I will be sure to verify that the signs of wear are consistent. I agree...I have found about 1 in 10 to be acceptable to me so far. The trucks with 30k are more like $19K I think. I am going for a 40K mile truck, and just missed a broker selling a 98 LSE with 40k for $17000 in Auto Trader. Was a very nicely kept truck. Thanks for the good wishes! I will let you know if I see any crazy low prices down here

Gregg

By Hammerhead on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Hi all! I am also in the market for a 1998 Disco LSE. This will be our first Rover and we happened to start looking at them on a whim. I have an SUV now, but it can't compare. I wouldn't even consider buying it (I am leasing)! I had the good fortune to come across a 1998 Beluga Black LSE,18.5K miles, LEL 7-seat interior, brush guard, tail lamp guards and all the options. The local Rover dealer was asking $27,200, which was $400 under what the bank was willing to loan on it. We had it for a week as we were working the deal, but it fell throuh because of a problem with my credit rating (damn!). Now its just out of my price range, with 8 months remaining on my lease. My wife was nearly to tears when I took it back.

We are still shopping around and I will probably look to a broker. I need to keep the purchase price down so I can buy all the accessories! My wife will use it in place of a mini-van (we HATE those), but it will serve double-duty as our off-road and camping vehicle. Auto Trader had one near me @ $19,995 and I was going to look at it tomorrow, but it sold today (damn, again)! I hope to soon be a Disco owner, too.

JHK
Tampa, FL


P.S.
This is a great forum and resource. I also own a couple of Triumph roadsters and Miatas and they also have a strong internet community. Its good to see one here for the Discos...

By Hammerhead on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Oh...and one other thing about Disco 1's. It's so funny to see the exterior door handles from my 1980 Triumph TR7 & TR8 on a vehicle built in 1998! What's the deal? Did they really make that many door handles in anticipation of the TR7/8 models being in production that long?..ROFL

JHK

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 02:39 am: Edit

JHK,

First, let me qualify this and say that I'm not necessarily suggesting that you shouldn't buy from a dealer..... with that said:

I bought my '99 Disco SD a year and a half ago for about $3000 less than what you were looking at on that '98, by looking at the Rover-specialist 'used-car-lots'; mine was supposed to be heading to LR-Nashville, but I bought it from the wholesaler direct. Clean, low mileage (when I bought it!), trouble-free.

I'd suggest shopping online at places like LRX, Bear Valley, and Rovers-n-Stuff to get an idea on fair market price.

Also, stick on the bank! Crap happens sometimes, but you can work w/ 'em and get what you want. They'll help you fix mistakes and restructure the loan set-up. Yeah, it'll probably either need a bigger down-payment, or a higher interest rate, but let 'em know that you want THIS vehicle, and they'll help ya find a way usually.

Best o' luck....

-L


PS: It's a Rover, isn't it? Actually, I like those door-handles, they don't catch on brush.....

By KJ on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:36 am: Edit

JHK,

Just to throw another fly into your ointment...check ebaymotors. Just before I bought my Disco, I looked hard at a 2001 SE with an extended warrenty to 100,000 miles (really nice $$ option). The vehicle only had 3000 miles on it and the only option it was missing was ACE. As I was unsure at that point about ACE, I passed, though it was within a two hour drive, so easily accessible for an in-person view before the auction ending. It went out UNDER $30K! I could have cried, especially as I decided in the end to pass on the ACE. Good luck!

Karen

By Bill Kobs (Billkobs) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:54 am: Edit

If your looking for financing I have to say that there is a bank on the internet that is the best experience I have ever had getting money for a car. The website is Peoplesfirst.com and they can qualify you in about 20 minutes they have the best rates around and their customer service is excellent.

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:36 am: Edit

JHK -
I second Bill's recommendation with PeopleFirst.com. Go to their site and read some of the customer comments, fill out the form, submit it, and see what you get. I bet that they give you a better loan than the bank and you can do it no money down if you want. That is who I am going with when I locate the right machine. Also check out EGearworld.com. That is the broker in Atlanta that I am using at the next auction at the end of September. You can meet him up here to pick the truck up, he can drive it to you, or ship it. I guarantee you can find a low mileage 98 LSE for way less than $27K at the auction. There were probably 20-30 LSEs at the auction last month. Bear Valley (bvlr.com) is a local dealer here in Atlanta too...they have a really nice selection of Discos, and all of them are in top notch shape. And don't hesitate to haggle with the LR dealer on their price...never hurts to give them a run for their money!!

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:40 am: Edit

I agree w/ Gregg, except! On the LR haggling thing.

Oh, by all means, give it a try! But even with the loan check in hand, they wouldn't budge for me, even on the used ones. Said that they had too little margin on them, that they couldn't afford to sell it for less.

IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada....

-L

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:52 am: Edit

Sounds like typical dealer horsesh*t. They say that to everyone. The margins on used/lease returns is usually better than on new cars (no factory kickbacks though). EXACTLY why I am not buying from the LR dealer. I used to sell cars, and dealers LOVE to jack people on the used ones...used to watch my sales manager snicker in his office when they took some poor fool for $8000 profit on a lease trade in/used car sale. Thought it was funny. Bastards!

G

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:04 am: Edit

I knew what the market price on 'em was, and they were high. I had the financing lined up, all I needed was the right truck for the right price. Several of their trucks would have been great, but they wouldn't budge. So.... Obviously I bought elsewhere, for a very fair price....

There are some honest ones out there, but a lot aren't. Caveat Emptor.

-L

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:11 am: Edit

My '96 has been fine !

By KJ on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:13 am: Edit

You CAN haggle with a LR dealership, but it takes some homework and ammo. I read everything I could about pricing, hold backs (none on LRs according to Edmunds) and all the rest. Then I went to Autobytel.com and got a price. I shopped a total of four dealerships, and told them exactly what I wanted in a new 2001. I also looked at executive cars and found the price point to not be compelling enough not to buy new. I layed it on the line, telling the dealerships what the best price was so far and that I was at that point shopping mainly price. Dealer free demo did play a role, but in the end the local dealership stepped up and gave me a deal I could live with. The MSRP on my Disco was just over $40K and I got it for just under $36K including LR HD rubber floor mats. Everybody made money and I felt I got some leeway. I don't know if the deal is still on, but I financed through LR and got 3.9%. Also, the first LR dealership repeatedly treated me like shit, so they didn't get my business. Last week when LRNA called me to see how my buying experience was, I gave them an earful they didn't expect. Told the good, bad and ugly and named names. If nothing else, it made me feel better. Don't give up on trying to cut a better deal. I would have paid the same for the POS Tahoe I test drove, and they said their price was a year end clearance price. Instead, I paid a fraction of what I should have for my $100K Land Rover Cruiser Ranger Toyota (G). Good luck!

Karen

By jim on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 08:14 am: Edit

I gave LRNA a piece of my mind also and now I see "Under new management, We will treat you like family" Painted all over their windows.

Pretty interesting.

And Yes they have made a 180 turn around and gotten better.

By Hammerhead on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 06:31 pm: Edit

**UPDATE**
Well, I had good luck in finding my first Disco (1). I got a 1998 LSE, 42K miles, front/rear A/C, jumpseats, Lightstone interior, etc. for 20,500 out-the door. I went through a broker, after speaking with two different ones. One broker was very kind and faxed a list of some 50+ Rovers going up for auction this week. The other broker just happened to be just across the street from the second largest wholesale auction yard in the country (Orlando, FL). I originally went to check the Discos on the auction list, but the broker had the gold LSE in stock. Looked at it (excellent condition) and he gave me a price of 21,500 out-the-door. I said I wanted to get into for for $20K and he came back with $20,700. I said, "let's go check out the ones on the auction list...". We looked at them and I found 5 that would suit our needs. Spoke with the broker again and he came down further to $20,500! And, he let me take it home to show the wife (I live 100 miles away). I've already talked to the credit union and they value it @ $26,000, so I know I'm getting a good deal @ the original price of $21,700. But armed with the knowledge I've gained from combing this site, I knew what to look for and I was able to demonstrate that knowledge in such a way that he knew he couldn't get anything past me on this particular vehicle(for comparison, I went to the other LR dealer in our area and they just got 10 used Discos in with comparable mileage, but without all the features of mine and they all go for over $25K. They won't even certify the remainder of the warranties). A little research goes a long way.

A tip to would-be purchasers: BMW financial provides the leasing for Rover and they auction off leased vehicles every other week. There are three auctions this month: Orlando, Atlanta and Philadelphia!

JK
Tampa, FL

By KJ on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:15 am: Edit

Hey JK, congrats! You got what you wanted and saved $7K over the first one you thought you were buying! Glad you hung in there and negotiated until you got what you wanted. What's the exterior color on the LSE?

Karen

By hammerhedz on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit

White Gold with brush guard and LR running boards.

JHK

By KJ on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:33 am: Edit

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, White Gold.....great choice!

Karen ;)

By Erik Olson (Jon) on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

Congratulations! Welcome to the very best, most interesting (and sometimes confounding) marquee anywhere.

My 95 Disco V8i has been great from the day I bought it (and this was supposedly the worst mfg. year).

God Save Land Rover

Erik

By Hammerhedz on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 04:12 pm: Edit

LOL...Erik, obviously you've never owned a Triumph! I have three, two TR7s and one TR8. I also own two Mazda Miatas (what every British roadster aspired to be), just as a comparison to what a dependable version of a British car can be.

There were only two problems I found with the Disco so far. First, the transfer case will not easily engage the low range and if it does, it doesn't lock and the beep sounds continuously. The person who owned it before me probably never used the low range. Second, even after a thorough going over of the vehicle, I didn't notice that the tachometer wasn't functioning. I searched the tech area and found out the little cable was not connected to the alternator. 30-second fix! Thanks DiscoWeb!

JHK