By artt on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 01:25 pm: Edit

I don't think my last post turned up..., the search function on this board sure is tricky to use.

Anyway, I dont own a truck and is new to 4WD'ing. Originally I wanted a Ford Explorer sport but the IFS and lack of parts turned me off (NO ONE makes front diffy for 95+ Ex). The only other sensible choice is a LR (not too hot about j**p, chevy or Toy).

The majority on this board seem to like Disco I better than DII. So what's the "verdict" on the 4ETC on Disco II? Some said it can keep up on the trail and some feel it's too slow to do you any good. Can the 4ETC be turned off from the cockpit?

I heard a center locking kit out there for Disco ii but i cant find anything about it. w/ this conversion, can 4ETC be left on if the center is not locked?

Thanks...

By chuanchen on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

well, because the majority on this board own Disco I. In fact, except the departure angle, a stock Disco II should act better than a stock DI. However, much more aftermarket parts/acce available for DI than D II so you can say DI has more flexibility than D II so far.

with my experiences, in most cases, with its ETC acting, DII can do/go what DI can't do/go with its central diff locked. you might want to know that DII's articulation is greater than DI. Some people have experienced that their DII ETC does not help a whole lot even it's acting. I think that might be the friction between teh spinning wheel and the ground is not small enough to continuously keep the ETC activating. Here you gotta manage your throttle and steering in order to get a continuous acting ETC to get enough traction. I am still trying to figure the better way. I think it is about experience.

Compared with DI with mods, it's different story.

if with the CDL conversion, I don't think you need to worry about ETC. I would say ETC still helpful when you got one wheel spinning (ETC will lock/brake the spinning wheel). so my assumption is with ETC and CDL DII would do similar to DI with three diff locks. )

any comments from anyone? correct me if I am wrong.

chuanchen

By Roverine on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Good question, I've been probably more vocal about ETC vs. CDL on this particular board just recently. I thought that the new Disco2 does handle superior in a purely stock form when compared to any other completely stock 4WD such as the ones you referenced above. However, I felt like I experienced a little too much air under various wheels for my comfort, and haven't really become comfortable with the center diff that cannot be completely locked at will by the driver. I must say this though:
A) I am still new (still "bonding") to driving the Disco2 - have only had it off road 4 times so far, and I think I have much to learn with my new truck. I have to get better acquainted with it and how best to drive it (I'm used to driving my old 4WD beater, and I'm probably a little more on the cautious side with this). I sound like an old fart ... "not used to all these new fangeled gadgets!! ..hill descent, traction control!! ..."LOL
B) If you are relatively new to 4WD, I think the traction control (if working properly) will be to your benefit. Also, the hill descent control is pretty darn good!

This is a good question, as I am "up to my ears in engineers", and frankly, I don't give a hoot about theory. I think the only reason that there is no CDL on the Disco2's in NA, is because probably only about 10% of the people that have bought them brand new in the last 2 years have serious offroad usage in mind. I would like to hear more from people who may have CDL or know someone who does. I like hearing all the opinions expressed on this BB - One of the best!

Kim

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 03:42 pm: Edit

The ETC switches OFF (DII) when you turn the difflock on manually(after you buy the lever, or crawl underneath of it). So it becomes a DI when you do that.. If the ETC stayed on, we'd probably all go out and buy one.

Andy

By Roverine on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Gil, you out there?? - Didn't you mention something about rumors to the effect of a 2002(????) Disco2 that might have both? (or was this just a sweet dream I had?)

Kim

By chuanchen on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Andy

so you are saying the ETC would automatically turn off when the center diff locked (if fitted)? where you heard it from?

it would be much better if ETC is still on when CDL is locked because a wheel might still spin on one axle.

chuanchen

By chuanchen on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 04:08 pm: Edit

This is from "Land Rover Chronicle":

"It has been confirmed Land Rover will return a locking center differential in Discovery for mid-2002, which was left out under BMW in favor of HDC ( Hill Descent Control ). In some conditions though, such as deep water crossings, the operation of HDC complicates matters by cutting forward momentum at the worst moment."

It seems like LR is gonna replace HDC with central diff lock and keep ETC.

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 04:47 pm: Edit

chuanchen -

Obviously it'd be better if the ETC still works when difflock engaged. But it doesn't. Try

Central locking diff is available, but you gotta crawl under the vehicle and use an allen wrench to turn it on. Somebody on this board said they had a conversion kit for sale....

approach angle is shot on the DII, just look at the ass end of it !

By artt on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Thanks for the replies so far...

If I can get a CDL "upgrade" for disco II and the 4ETC can still be on and operating for the two axles, I'll run out and get one too. Here in SoCal I've found listings for 99 Disco II in the $25K range. Can 4ETC be switched off (w/ a button or whatever) like other trac controls? I'm trying to sign up for disco2owner yahoo mailing list too.

By cyson on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Well, you're wrong in thinking that ETC turns off when CDL is engaged. If you engage the CDL while the engine is running, you will have CDL and ETC. It's a great combination. It adds traction where CDL leaves off.


chu

By Barry on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 05:47 pm: Edit

I have a 2000 DSII w/CDL. The combination makes for serious/controlled off-road traction. The ETC, ABS, and HDC electronics remain fully operational when CDL is engaged AFTER the engine is started.

My CDL kit was purchased, and expertly installed by Charles and the good folk at www.roveraccessories.com

By gil on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:11 pm: Edit

roverine, apparently yes, it should run with both as cyson and barry have stated. it will cost LRNA $18 per disco to add CDL. kinds makes you think why didnt they do it the first place. i think its the same reason they sacrfificed departure angle for 3rd row seating room. ETC requires no driver input, (well it does, but its not supposed to)therefore making it more road-bias which is where, unfortunately, alot DIIs end-up. the ETC in Range Rover is light years ahead of the discos. it actually does do pretty much exactly what it is suppossed to. it also constantly pressurized whereas the disco is not, therefore rendering the discos ETC useless under 1200 rpms. Combine the Discos ETC with a manually lockable center and you acheive better then expected results, which is why, with any luck we will see it from the factory in 02, along with the confirmed in-dash CD, in-dash NAV, factory TV option, 18" Hurricane alloys, and quite possibly the 4.6. of these "improvments" other than the CDL and the 4.6, you can see where LR is going with this. hope it helps.

By Roverine on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:16 pm: Edit

This is music to my ears (damn, grow money tree, grow!!!) What about the LR Warranty for your vehicle? ... Does/has anyone jerked you around?

Are there any other mods (other than the usual) that would be a must with it?

Kim
i tried to go on the disco2 bb @ yahoo earlier, but for some reason, i can't log in to yahoo, and i've been impatient (timewise) - haven't tried again yet.

By Roverine on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Gil,

Sorry, i got interupted in the middle of my last post above, and didn't see yours, but excellent info!

Barry - questions aimed at your post.

Thanks again,
Kim

By gil on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:23 pm: Edit

warranty for my vehicle?? lucky for me, i have a DI so i dont have any CDL envy. if you dont tell someome that you have a CDL kit, they will most likely never know. it can be rigged to use the factory knob. so when you bring it in for service dont advertise the CDL, not that it would matter I dont think. I have done tons of warranty work to my truck (most of it preventitive as I only have 600 miles left on it)which is modified and its been no problem. im not sure if that answered the question u were asking or not.

By gil on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:24 pm: Edit

that explains alot....to bad there isnt a big smiley with a question mark above his head

By Roverine on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Thanks Gil! I was sort of thinking that way, but ... my LR dealership just had a big shake up ... LOT'S of new people and changes ... didn't want to just 'sashshay' in there asking the wrong questions ...

Kim

By Roverine on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 06:32 pm: Edit

I think we're posting at the same time ... only i'm incredibly slow on the keyboard ... Anyway, thanx!

By artt on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 08:00 pm: Edit

The Disco II doesnt sound so bad now... I just hope they dont come up w/ something like a soccer ball holder for the next model. That lad holding a soccer ball in the disco II brochure seems to be developing sexual attraction toward his playmate.

So if you lock the center before turning on the engine, 4ETC would be shutoff? How about ABS and HDC? I presume it would be turned back on when you start the engine w/ the center open...

Thanks!

By chuanchen on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Cyson and Barry

It really makes sense that CDL and ETC can be activated and working together. I can't wait to see how my ride climbs with both of them fitted!!

Barry, can you give us a little idea how much the CDL kit plus installation cost you? Thanks.

chuanchen

By mongo on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 03:44 am: Edit

Hey Guys,
I got a kit from Adam Skerritt in AU. $125.00 US. Couple of things, mine is a second handle, not a DI handle mounted in a DII. You can turn off ABS/ETC if you start the engine with the cdl engaged. When using the CDL with ETC my DII really rocks...

mongo

By Karen Jones on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 04:33 am: Edit

This is all fascinating, even if I only understand a portion of it. Can someone point me to where I can learn the fundamentals of what the CDL really does and how and when to utilize it? I'm vague at best, though I have an inkling. Also, where is the factory knob that would control an after market CDL? I'm all for making smart improvements AND preserving my brand new warranty. I spoke with someone at a dealership yesterday about going to a K&N air filter and whether or not LR might want to say making that mod would void their warranty. When he said they might make an issue of it if the air flow sensor was ever damaged ( I think that's the sensor he referenced), I floated the notion of possibly just swapping out the stock filter each time I take the truck in for service. He laughed and said, "That's what I'd do, but you didn't hear it from me."

Karen, so much to learn....

By mongo on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 05:10 am: Edit

Hi Karen,
The CDL is part of the existing transfer case, on a stock DII, there's no way of engaging it. The aftermarket kits allows you to engage the cdl. Do a search and you'll find about a million posts about it. My dealer is jerk. Anything I do he has a problem with, mainly because he didn't make any money from me on LR aftermaket stuff. Try and make friends at the dealership and talk with them when you add anything to your truck anmd hopefully you'll not void parts of your warranty.

Frank

By Kent Westbrook (Kentwestbrook) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 05:24 am: Edit

Karen,

If you go with the kit made by Adam (mentioned above), you'll have a second knob on your console, I think just to the right of your existing hi-lo. The Rover Accessories kit includes the hi-lo lever from the DI, but I think you could use (as others have) your existing lever. From what I understand, in all likelihood, a dealer may not even notice you've got the CDL lock hooked up in that instance.

As for info on basic fundamentals, if you go to the Disco2 Owners yahoo group, and do a search on CDL, there's a ton of info over there, probably more than you'd want, but you'd learn a heck of a lot about the advantages and in what circumstances it's best used.

Kent

By Karen Jones on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 05:45 am: Edit

Frank and Kent, thanks for the info. I plan to drive this truck stock for a while, perhaps a long while, so I can learn about what I already paid for. I know I have everything to learn and want to avoid mistakes in my ignornance. Certain mods seem to be universally admired, and those are the ones I'm paying the most attention to at the moment. Kent, thanks for reminding me about the other archives. I'm subscribed to the digest for that group, so don't even log on over there. I'll make a point of doing just that. Again, thanks to you both for repeating yourselves to yet another new owner.

Karen

By cyson on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 06:01 am: Edit

I really depends on the driver. For the type of driving I was doing last year with the minimual mods I had, I never needed CDL. I climbed big hills without much problems once I figured out how to use it.

Now that I have more clearance and more protection with bigger tires, CDL helps me out. It allows me to provide a little more controlled momentum when I need it and I can crawl around with less wheelspin. Overall, I think it's a great mod. Perhaps should be your first mod if you haven't done any others. It's cheap, effective, and it's already there. Just gotta use it. I put mine together from parts at Checkers for a lot less than 100 bux.


chu

By Kent Westbrook (Kentwestbrook) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 09:30 am: Edit

chu,

I can't remember, but is yours locked from inside the cab, or was it you who designed the handle under the door that you turned from outside? I'd be interested to know what parts you purchased and some details on what you did.

Kent

By cyson on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 10:21 am: Edit

Kent,

sad to admit, I've been too lazy to relocate my handle to the inside. It is still sitting under the door. A good place I've found is near the hood release lever.

There's a nice (maybe too nice) shifter cable made by B&M that works really well. The rest is some creative bracketing and 1 machined piece to fit over the shaft on the x-fer case.


chu

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 11:35 am: Edit

>"it will cost LRNA $18 per disco to add CDL. kinds makes you think why didnt they do it the first place."

What a bunch of idiots. Maybe they were "downthinking" to make themselves more attractive to Ford.

By Roverine on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Yes, I know I'M REAL HAPPY ABOUT THAT

But ... no use me whining now, (then why do I keep bringing this up every few weeks or so?? LOL) i just need to fix it. Afterall, i'm the dummy that assumed it had a CDL built in when i bought it.

-K

By Roverine on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Oh! i should add (for the record) even had I known there was no CDL, I would have bought the Disco2 anyway ... There was no other vehicle, and I mean NO OTHER VEHICLE on the market that fit our needs better ... i.e. a daily driver that is comfortable and could seat 7, (when needed) and yet could still kick some ass offroad ... unlike many of the other toys and bohemoths out there now.

Kim