By bombadier on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 05:15 am: Edit

just wanted to know. since DC killed my jeep XJ and they plan on changing the WJ to an on-road model only, i would like to know where the future of lr is. thanks in advance.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 05:23 am: Edit

Ford does.

By Glenn Guinto (Glenn) on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 05:24 am: Edit

Ford owns it now. I just hope they (Ford) don't make unibodies in the future. - oh wait, they're already starting with the Freelander! Help!!!!

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 05:35 am: Edit

Not to mention that they removed the solid axles from the Explorer all together.. IFS and IRS on that new POS.. It is now offically a mini van just like the CRV, Merced ML, and all the other non-solid front and rear axled junkers.

By gil on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 05:43 am: Edit

freelander has been around for 4 years and is a product of BMW...

By bombadier on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 07:47 am: Edit

is there any real relationship with BMW, i heard a while back they might put bmw engines in the rovers, don't they use some bmw parts now? i thought the tranny, i may be wrong though. thanks

By gil on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 07:54 am: Edit

the tranny is german in DIIs, the new rangie will have BMW sourced V8s, as all the R&D was done under BMW....also a BMW V12 in Europe..the "THOR" intake on DIIs is also BMW spec as is the Bosch electronics....and the DII shifter is lifted right of the 5-series bimmer...

By rovernutt on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 08:39 am: Edit

The Td4 engine in the Freelander is BMW - not that we're likely to see them on the left side of the pond.

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

I just had a discussion with a friend of mine who is an engineer at Ford. Supposedly, the LR division will be left alone with respect to design of the vehicles. Ford will only try to improve the efficiency of the manufacturing process. Hopefully that remains the case or the Discovery will end up being an Exploder.

By chuanchen on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 09:54 am: Edit

well, according to the factory spec, freelander's unibody is designed and built based on a much higher standard for body twist than regular unibody vehicles. I don't know if it's true, but I would trust LR, even BMW. from some photos of the naked freelander body (specifically underbody), it does appear to be constructed differently from others.

if any of LR vehicles is going to be designed to be unibody from now on, then it'd probably be really sad because Ford owns it now. I don't know why, but like, LR using BMW parts sounds positive, but if it's using Ford parts, then it is going to be a disaster! just my feeling.

chuanchen

By Steve (Steve2) on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 01:00 pm: Edit

bombadier - you work on a buff?

anyway - for next year 2002 - not much change aside from the freelander into, new range rover series, and new changes to the disco II

freelander:
base price $25k to $30k with HSE models. also kalahari edition available to look just like the camel trophy models. us cars will have v6 motor with steptronic transmission. no manual option that i know of.

discovery: new colours, new HSE model with larger v8 - could be 4.2 4.4 or 4.6litre. possible long wheel base disco with HSE and larger motor. kalahari edition coming at $40K plus with special interior possible CDL!?!, exterior will have adventure rack, special paint, badges etc.

range rover
totally new model with bmw motors including the v12. new computer suspension with new generation etc/hdc, all terrain abs. super luxurious interious with more bells and whistles than a bell and whistle factory. new size is very imposing - larger then the current model - smaller than an expedition.

steve

By britdaz on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 01:13 pm: Edit

I heard that for Ford to make the LR's production for efficient, it would be using parts from the Jaguar range, like door handles etc. I guess that can't be to bad, just as long as I do not see handles and switches from my contour.
Now that is a sad thought.

Britdaz

By artt on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Mike, that sounds consistent w/ Ford's philosophy. Much that's happening to LR now, you can blame it on BMW I suppose (dont know much about rover). Ford, at least what I read, let BMW finish some leftover r&d for Rover, like the bmw engine, etc.

I doubt Ford will not do anything overt to LR. They actually improved the quality of Jaguar--and look what Jaguar had become. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-05-17-jdpower.htm

Ford bought Land Rover (some "analyst" said a company no one wants even if they give it away for free?) to fill the market segment of premier suvs. Ford trucks already does a nice job of covering the soccer mom and "lower" market, they're not going to make every division a Ford. Land Rover is run by Ford Premier Automotive Group (a name that inspire confidence, isnt it? ) and Ford PAG presidentis Dr. Wolfgang Reitzle, who worked for BMW ( http://www.fisita.com/cgi-bin/committee.pl?item=4 I think that photo of him is WAY out of date). So even if it's a Ford, it's in good hands.

I don't know what Ford wants to do w/ Rover (decrease their cost per vehicle perhaps?--now a motto of Ford), but here something to ponder: Even Aston Martin can "salvage" technical resource from Ford. Ford wanted a car to compete w/ Ferrari and 911 and Aston Martin is up for the job. The Vanquish is said to be the most throughly tested Aston Martin vehicle ever (they made some 50 prototypes i recall and some amazing test mileages). The engine is not entirely Aston Martin. Remember Ford Indigo? A supercar that went nowhere? Indigo's V12, basically two Taurus V6s (Zetec?) welded together, had to go somewhere, and it went into the Vanquish. It maybe a Ford engine, but it's worthy of Aston Martin. Could this be what will become of Land Rover?

btw, too bad the new Explorer had to come out like that. The truck had some interesting hardwares... http://www.bonforums.com/trucks/expl_02powertrain.htm

By artt on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 02:05 pm: Edit

britdaz,

I think you're right about Ford's plan "production for effcient" (reads: lower cost). The keyword is universal parts. Vehicle share common platform, parts and etc. eg, Jaguar s-type/Lincoln LS, Contour/Mondeo. Many other makers are doing this too. Don't be surprise to find new Land Rovers filled w/ Ford parts!!

By artt on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 02:08 pm: Edit

oops, i meant to say "i doubt ford will do anything overt"...

By Jon E. Yermo (Jon) on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Ford immediately started retooling the Solihull facilities upon purchase with new body dies / casting equipment. They seem to be interested in moving Land Rover forward as a distinct marquee. This question is, what will they do to the machine behind the green oval? Also, I do not wish to have the word "SuperDuty" anywhere on my Discovery.

After one Ford experience in my life I never wanted to buy another one of their vehicles again. I may have to go back on that promise to myself in the next couple of years, perhaps the '03 Discovery will have a Ford plant?! Really, I have nothing against American cars, I just think they're total POS.

Truth is, Jaguar S-Type looks like a Taurus. I'm sure the Ford PAG folks can streamline the production at Solihull considerably - I just hope they don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

God Save Land Rover

Erik

By chuanchen on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Has any of you noticed that the bumper and front of Ford ESCAPE already been designed like that of Freelander? these really made me sad.

I hate the "capitalization" of auto industry. That especially occurs most by US motor makers, unfortunately, Ford is the worst.



chuan

By artt on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Maybe they'll rent or lease the machines to other companies? (shrug)

LOL, a Discover "superduty"? How about a Range Rover Eddie Bauer edition? Too bad we're trashing Ford here; I thought about an Explorer (headache to find "upgrade" parts) before looking into Disco II. It's funny how Ford buys back former customers by purchasing a new company.

btw, it seems no one except car & driver (or maybe me) likes the Escape's frontend. It looks too much like everything before it. Everyone is claiming the credit--Freelander, Xterra and a certain Japanese vehicle I cant seem to remember. It's still a cute looking little suv that look nicer than most of other trucks out there. I'll defend any Ford's current vehicles styling except the repugnance that is the "new edge" Mustang.

By MA on Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 04:04 am: Edit

Have you seen the European Ford's? Some of their cars car not half bad. They are way better than the American crap we have to put up with.

By Jon E. Yermo (Jon) on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 02:30 pm: Edit

I rented a Peugot 206 while in France this May and really wish we could still get some of their vehicles over here. That little car held the road nicely, great passing gears and comfortable interior. It was also nice to see so many Alfas down towards Italy.

I did see a few Ford products in Paris, very few Land Rovers - mostly Tdi Discoveries. Boy did those things sound like beaters! I'm glad for the V8i I have, although I'd love to have it converted to LPG.

Cheers

By Chris Browne on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Freelander-v6 made by Midland Powertrain just sold by BMW to MG Rover has a japanese five speed auto
TD4 is built in Solihull, also used in MG Rovers
TD5 built with BMW sourced camshaft (!), etc
RR New will share many parts with 7 series BMW eg 333 hp v8s-releasing lots of 4.6 Thor engines for the S2 Disco
Its going to take years to unravel the BMW/Ford relationship and get Ford Eurtope in sensible shape. If they can fix Jaguar they can fix this mess
EG Ford has two 2.5 liter 5 cylinder Diesel engines in Europe, Land Rover's and Volvo's (coincidentally announced the same week that Ford bought Land Rover).. and is installing the 2.7 litre v6 Diesel made in Europe into the Euro Market Explorer.
Now which engine has the most liklihood of being seen over here????? You know the answer!

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:10 am: Edit

"Superduty" should be used in the same sentence as "Taking a Dump"

By lynden on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 06:45 am: Edit

I'm not sure why people are dumping on Ford. Would you have rather had GM buy LR??? They make the worst looking crap on the planet. Or would you rather be driving a Chrysler, now there's a model for reliability??? Ford puts way more R&D into their motors than the other companies. Look at the 4.6 motor in the cobra that keeps up w/ the 5.7 in the crapmaro. I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. Ford hasn't done anything wrong w/ volvo, or jag, volvo's aren't starting to look like Taurus or anything. BMW obviously didn't do a whole lot for the LR name, Ford will solve the problems that WE complain about most. LR will continue to be the most superior offroad vehicles on the planet and we'll all continue to drive them. I wouldn't complain too loudly over Ford's purchase where there were far worse possibilities out there.
Lynden

By Ron on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 06:53 am: Edit

I want superduty and powerstroke on the engine of my rover.

Ron

By MA on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit

I'd take a GM over a Ford(of America) anyday, but if I were in Europe, I wouldn't even consider an American car. Ford is kind-of in the middle as far as sales and quality goes(going down slowly). Daimler Crysler is at the bottom end and GM is the highest among the Big 3. Daimler Crysler is down because of Crysler/Dodge. Ford is going down because of the Firestone thing as well as poor build quality. There was a great article on Ford and how their situation is worst than you think in Business Week a couple of months ago. GM is doing the best because of their SUV's, pick-ups and the vette. Their cars are generally more relaible than Ford or Crysler. Ford, however, has done wonders for all the car makers they own(Jaguar, Volvo, Astin Martin, etc.) Mercedes hasn't really done anything for Crysler/Dodge/Jeep/?, they just wasted their time and money on them. There is talk of introducing their AMG thing to the Crysler PT cruiser and Dodge Viper. I'm not sure about GM's over-seas companys(Opel?). Personally, I liked it when BMW owned LR. They really didn't do anything bad to LR, in many ways they made them better. Ford, so far,has done good things to LR by renuvating the Birmingham factory and brain-washing the factory employees with LR pride. Hopefully, Ford will not mess with LR too much.

By Steve (Steve2) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

i'm with lynden-

much rather have ford than gm. i like european fords. i think a disco with a 4.6l romeo motor would be quite 'stonking'

steve

By lynden on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:46 pm: Edit

MA, not to start a pissing match but look across the board. GM has 2nd rate motors and can't compete w/ Ford. Every motor is bigger than Ford's but the Ford always has similar power+torque. Powerstroke is the best diesel out, GM had to contract (or owns) Isuzu to create a competent diesel motor. You want a kick ass disco, one of those powerstrokes (a little smaller for our application) would serve the disco. nicely. Think of all that torque comming on at about 6oo RPM... could climb the sides of buildings. That's just my $.02.
Lynden

By Erik Olson (Jon) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 02:42 pm: Edit

I just took a SuperDuty in my pants.

No really, Ford does suck and I point to as evidence any five year old Ford on the road. Just like all other American cars, they're falling apart the minute they leave the lot. All that plastic ***t on there. Funny thing about American cars, the trim does not stay on - ever. Any mouldings or trim of plastic is in some state of hanging off, falling off or just plain not there. Oh yeah, my Japanese cars never have paint oxidizing off the hood and roof after 70,000 miles either. My verdict on American cars:

Ford: POS
GM: POS
Daimler-Chrysler: Never would be either brand anyway, Nazi or American

I'll take my Japanese cars, hell - I'd buy a Korean car before I'd buy an American car again. We do not do it better. Blame American corporate culture, lazy American workers -whatever. Don't get me wrong - I'm all about loving the Greatest Generation and red, white and blue and all that - but you can keep every car we make here, I won't drive them.

God Save Land Rover

Erik

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 12:38 pm: Edit

>"I'm not sure why people are dumping on Ford. Would you have rather had GM buy LR??? They make the worst looking crap on the planet. Or would you rather be driving a Chrysler, now there's a model for reliability???"

Good points, Lynden, but I think that most people here would rather that NONE of America's "Big Three" touch Rover. What does Big Three stand for, anyway?...something like "Better hope your car was put together on the Big Three Days Of The Week that we can actually get them to roll off the factory floor under their own power?" I've owned Ford, GM, & Chrysler...not impressed. We have the technology & know-how, we just don't care enough to be the best at putting things together. From a quality standpoint, I'd rather that a japanese company purchase Rover...but they'd have no idea of how to uphold & propogate the philosophy of Rover...

Erik - you made me laugh and blow snot out of my nose with "I just took a SuperDuty in my pants."

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

"volvo's aren't starting to look like Taurus or anything- "

The hell they aren't. Have you driven a new volvo as of late ? They were better when they were bulletproof bricks. Now they actually look like a ford. Take a look at the new Jag's. Ford built the Taurus to look just like it!! Are we going to have a mazda that looks like a freelander now ? ? ?

Acronyms for FORD

F*cking Oakies Really Diggem
Fix Or Repair Daily
Found On Road Dead

Anybody got anymore ?

Am I bitter towards ford ? Hell yes, they make a throw away car, and they just introduced a throw away transmission. GM is OK, but they're getting ever closer to Ford's crap.

my .69 cents

By chuanchen on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Jaguar S-type has a Taurus platform. X-type has a Mondeo platform. and you are going to see the shadow of yellow cabs and policecars out of the Jaguar's flagships soon!

chuanchen

By gp (Garrett) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:43 am: Edit

First On Race Day!!!!!

By artt on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:11 am: Edit

And Audi TT is based on VW Golf/Jetta platform, Audi A4=Passat platform..., your point being?

I didnt know any other model sharing Taurus platform; but the x-type have Taurus V6 (Duratec?) in it. Jaguar chief designer Ian Callum claims there were "no conscious influence from Ford or anyone else in the design..." Have you noticed too the design trend of BMW? Check out the 7er and pick up a copy of Road&Track and Car&driver. btw, ever notice how 96 Taurus resembles a catfish? Coincident? Probably.
http://auto.com/industry/jag7_20010907.htm

Maybe there're someone else who can enlighten us more on this subject, but the news is that Jac "the knife" Nasser is on the cutting board himself and Bill Ford will back president of Ford North America (a British!!) for ceo--things could get interesting. I guess you live by the knife, and die by the knife.
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/stibusnws01021.html

Ford PAG hq was moved to Irvine sometime back--something to suggest the culture at PAG is a little different than Dearborn... You have to acknowledge the fact that Jaguar improved their quality under Ford (surpass Acura according to 01' JD power study.) Now they just bought another British motor co. Lets be a little more optimistic; they're not going to completely assimilate LR into Ford. What do you think they're going to do? Put Firestone tires on Land Rover?

By artt on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:15 am: Edit

heheh, Found On Road Dead, that's the first time I heard that one...

By JEEPETR on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 06:38 am: Edit

F ***ing
O ver
R ated
D isaster

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:01 am: Edit

Hmmmm - we seem to be stuck in an updated version of my Camaro can beat your Mustang here - just like that old argument, this one ain't going anywhere either

By Gregg Warnken (Gregg) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:10 am: Edit

Actually the VWs are based on the Audi platform, not the other way around. Audi has been making excellent cars for years, and you can see their engineering trickling down into the VWs...ooops hey this is the LR not the Audi discussion board!! lol

G

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:15 am: Edit

OK, so far we've got:

F*cking Oakies Really Diggem
Fix Or Repair Daily
Found On Road Dead
F ***ing O ver R ated D isaster
and F*cked On Race Day

any others? I'm enjoying myself.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:25 am: Edit

Posted By Lynden:
"Powerstroke is the best diesel out, GM had to contract (or owns) Isuzu to create a competent diesel motor."

Better check your facts! The Powerstroke is built By International!

By Ron on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:33 am: Edit

Navistar is what they call it now

Still be a binder to me

You got a pic of that scout of yours? I am getting sentimental.

Ron

By Andy Nix (Andy) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:45 am: Edit

Me too. I had a '72 Scout II, but I worked on it too much, and it was starting to rust, damn good motor though. Sold it for $1500 and called it good. International should have bought Land Rover, now that'd be cool !!!

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Ron:
My Scout you ask.
Well I started with a 79 with a great running 345/727. I started to remove many parts!
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/DWframe.jpg

Then I picked up this very clean 72 half cab for 300.00
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/DWPARTS%SCOUTDEPT.jpg

I removed the 79 body and sandblasted the frame and the 72 tub. I rebuilt the 727 and Dana 300 transfercase. I went thru the motor and installed a Comp cam, tri Y headers , Milled and ported the heads and installed a Q-jet.
I had the frame diped in Zinc phosphate and the tub received 2 gallons on herculiner inside and on the entire bottom. I then installed the tub and a painless wiring harness. The charging system is powered by a 180 amp out of a freightliner going to twin Optima red tops. The Dana 60 rear end has an ARB and 1.5" 35 spline axles and set 20 bearings.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/DWtubon001.jpg

Here she is on 35" without the D60 that is SOA. She now sits level.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/DWBB35s[1].jpg

I will look for some more resent photos. and she is on 36"s now

BTW Navistar is no longer in biz, it's back to just International.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Here are the links that work

http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/DWPARTS.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/DWBB35s.jpg

I sure miss a UBB board! The formatting is funky!

By Mike S on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 02:25 am: Edit

>discovery: new colours, new HSE model with larger v8 - could be 4.2 4.4 or 4.6litre. possible long wheel base disco with HSE and larger motor. kalahari edition coming at $40K plus with special interior possible CDL!?!, exterior will have adventure rack, special paint, badges etc.

Anyone know when the new 2002s will be available in the U.S. with the features described above? My lease runs out at the end of October, and I'm trying to decide if I should try to find an '02 or stick with an '01.

Thanks,
Mike S

By MA on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 06:54 am: Edit

Here's more:
· Fast Only Rolling Downhill
· Fabricated Of Refried Dung
· Fails On Rainy Days
· Fatally Obese Redneck Driver
· First On Road to Dump
· Fix Or Recycle Daily
· Flipping Over Results in Death
· Flipped Over Roadside Disaster
· Follow Our Rusty Doushe
· Forced On Reluctant Drivers
· Formed Of Rejected DNA
· Forward Only; Reverse Defective
· Forlorn, Old, Ratridden Dustbin
· Fork Over Repair Dough
· Frequent Overhaul, Rapid Deterioration
· Free Or Reduced Drastically
· Frequent Opinion: Really Disappointed
· Fumes and Odors Readily Detectable
· Funny Old Rattling Dump
I like this one too:
· Falls Off Rigs Daily

By Anonymous on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:38 am: Edit

MA,
You forgot the best one!
F**Ked Over Rebuilt Dodge.

By artt on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 03:20 am: Edit

Never seen so many FORD jokes in one page...,

I still think there're very good reasons to be optimistic of the takeover. Since most of you are very negative about the idea of Ford running LR, lets leave this thread on more a postive note...

Now I don't know if this one is confirmed or a rumor; maybe someone here have more info. But visualize anyway the Jaguar 4.0 litre V8 w/ Cosworth head http://www.bonforums.com/photos/pictorial_jagengine.htm , "re-engineered" by Land Rover for low end torque
--okay, maybe only in the Range Rover. Could it be that a British vehicle will actually have a British, non-bmw engine?