By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 09:23 am: Edit

Just want to get an idea of how much to charge. The vehicle is not currently for sale, but will be in the spring, more than likely.
-----------------------
1998 Discovery, $xx,xxxx

With regret I must put my Discovery on the market. When purchased, I planned on keeping the vehicle forever, and it has been maintained with that in mind. I am the original owner. The vehicle has over $10,000 in upgrades, and I have put hundreds of hours of work into it. It has been 100% reliable, and has never left me stranded. The reason for the sale is the vehicle can not be made to do what I want it to do, and I can not afford to keep two vehiles. I plan on building up an old Toyota Land Cruiser (probably).

Vehicle stats:
-1998 Land Rover Discovery LSE 50th anniversary edition
-80,000 Miles
-Willow green exterior with color matched mirrors and endcaps, stainless steel door handles
-Lightstone Leather interior with wood accents and wood center console, leather wrapped cubby box lid and shifter knob
-Dual power sunroofs
-Power heated seats
-Power windows and locks, alarm (of course)
-Full land rover rubber mats, including loadspace
-Land Rover tiedown D-rings in loadspace
-4.0 V8 engine
-ZF automatic transmission
-Professionally installed stereo system including: Kenwood in-dash CD (45Wx2 powering rear speakers), MBQuart 4 inch speakers under factory grilles in front doors. MBQuart tweeters in A-Pillars using factory grilles. MBQuart 5.25 inch speakers in rear. 10" kicker sub in rear door in custom built enclosure (the factory door trim has been removed and new trim built out of 1/2:" plywood and covered in carpet to match the stock carpeting, looks very clean). XTant 3-way power amp in driver's rear load pocket (100Wx2 powering front speakers, 200Wx1 powering kicker sub).
-Wheel locks
-Cross bars for factory roof rack

Off-road upgrades:
-4.1 gears from Great Basin Rovers
-Detroit Locker in rear diff
-Detroit TrueTrac in front diff
-Heavy duty rear axles from Great Basin Rovers
-Rovertym trailing arms
-Rovertym rock sliders
-Bilstein 6100 12" travel racing shocks on Rovertym upper/lower shock mounts in rear
-Bilstein shocks in front
-Bearmarch 2" medium duty springs in front on Rockware 1" spacers
-Bearmarch 2" medium duty springs in rear on Rovertym 2" spacers
-Rockware heavy duty tie rod and drag link
-Rockware steering damper relocation kit with OME damper
-Safari Gard rock gard kit for tie rod
-Safari Gard diff gards front and rear
-Safari Gard front bumper and skidplate with Husky 10 10,000lb Winch (winch has been retrofitted with Warn remote, solenoid pack remote mounted under hood), 360 deg. swiveling D-ring
-3 Hella 4000 lights (2 fogs and 1 Euro-driving) on front bumper, each wired to its own relay and switched by stock foglight switch for a factory look)
-Radio Shack CB with 5 foot metal whip antenna on front bumper (right corner)
-BF-Goodrich MT 235/85/16 on Land Rover alloys, steel spare, all tires have at least half the tread left
-Optima Yellow-Top battery
-Magnecor 7.5mm racing wires
-All breathers extended into engine compartment

Other items of interest
-Vehicle has been maintained fanatically by Land Rover Dealer for first 30,000 miles, and by owner thereafter. All maintenance records available.
-Oil changed every 3000 miles
-Transmission fluid, transfer case oil changed once a year
-Coolant flushed and replaced with Land Rover coolant/distilled water once a year
-Brake system flushed and fluid replaced with Castrol LMA once a year
-Diff oil changed three times a year
-New fan clutch
-Rotors changed at 60,000 miles
-New wheel bearings and seals rear axle
-New speed sensor
-New radiator
-Engine treated with BG44K every other oil change, runs like new.
-NO OIL LEAKS OR LEAKS OF ANY OTHER KIND
-Vehicle has treated me very well, I have never had any major mechanical problems and it has never left me stranded
-All 5 doors and roof around alpine windows recently repaired under Land Rover Corrosion warranty
-Includes shop manual, hub nut socket, 2 tubes of land rover swivel grease, brake pads, misc. seals and gaskets, and driver's door window regulator, stock rear shock mounts, stock springs if desired, extra remote control for winch, hawse fairlead for winch
-Vehicle just detailed, looks great inside and out
-Runs like new
-Great off road and on road
-14 MPG city/16MPG highway (at 75MPH)
-Actual mileage is somewhat less than indicated due to tire/gear combo

Problem areas:
-Rear bumper tweaked
-Small dent in driver's door
-Small crack in outside of driver's mirror
-A couple small scratches around body
-Drivers side swivel ball needs to be replaced and resealed
-Intermittent (rare) ABS fault (I have traced them to the front-drivers sensor--more than likely when the swivel ball is replaced and everything is cleaned the problem will disappear)
-Front skidplate slightly dented
-Small crack on bottom passenger corner of windshield - has been there for 2 years and has not (and will not) spread
-Alloys scratched and gouged, but hold air fine and do not leak

I will consider selling the vehicle without front bumper and winch. In that case, the vehicle will come with no front bumper. Note also that the grille has been trimmed to accommodate winch and drilled to accommodate winch remote control plug.

I would really like to sell this vehicle to an off-road enthusiast who will use the vehicle as intended and in the spirit with which I have built it up. It will be very sad spending a lot of time in mall parking lots.

By MA on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 10:22 am: Edit

Your Disco's Blue Book value is about $19,000 without all your up-grades. Upgrades don't necessarily add that much value. Probably $26000 with all the mods you've done. Maybe you should sell parts off it seperatly(i.e. your Detroit locker, lights, tires, etc.), you might get more money that way.

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Alex - I would take the book value, then subtract about $1000 for the negatives. Then, sum up the price of all the upgrades and divide by 1/2. Should be a quick sale.

Tom

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 06:16 am: Edit

If it ever comes to stripping off some of the HD parts, I'll swap you both my diffs (stock front and DL'ed rear, with OEM gears) for your's + TBD cash.

So, what won't your rig do that an FJ will ??

You need to think about how much a restored FJ40 is going to cost + the cost of the huge amount of mods it's going to take to make it perform better then your Disco. Then, add in the cost of a tow rig, cuz an extreme FJ isn't going to make it CO or UT on it's own. IMO, a bigger FJ is no better then your Disco. Plus, a non-restored FJ is going to be a huge, POS, rust bucket. I see THOSE all the time.

Of course, if you're satisfied with sticking to climbing boulders in Attica, well...

keith
discosaurus

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 06:27 am: Edit

I have a nice unmollested 71 FJ-40 thats about 60% restored.

Kyle

By Mike J. (Mudd) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 06:28 am: Edit

$10,000,000 Mods or not it's still a Range Rover right?

Keep it!

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 06:47 am: Edit

I haven't decided anything yet, but I think a FJ40 stretched 10" for a 100" wheelbase, with a chev 350, TH350, dual transfer cases, dana 60s and 38.5x14s (with the wheelwells cut out to accomodate the tires with no more than 4" lift) will rock on the trail and do 65 on the hwy no problem. It will take 2 years to build and cost at least $20K.

We'll see

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 06:58 am: Edit

EEEEEEKKK , You aint gettin my FJ to butcher.... Poor FJ , as you butcher one though the value of mine will raise a notch...

Kyle

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:17 am: Edit

And what can I say to that?

Alex

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:18 am: Edit

Man, I think you better stay away from those rock crawling Jeeper buddies of yours. Pretty soon you'll be doing those so-very-cool rumble-ass dirt burnouts like that Mike guy...

Yeah, leave the poor FJ's alone - go build up a CJ.

keith
discosaurus

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:20 am: Edit

NO!! NOOOOOOOOOOO! No jeeps!!!!!!


Aaaaaaaaaaarghhhh!!!!


(Running away, arms flailing)

Alex

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:22 am: Edit

Well, when you build up your 65MPH WFO FJ, you can convoy with me in my Mog to Moab. Then, if you break it, we can just put it on the Mog's bed and bring it home...

keith
discosaurus

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:23 am: Edit

...how 'bout a rock-Zuk ?? Pretty flexy !

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:23 am: Edit

WFO? Eh? WTFAYTAB? Wheels falling off?

Alex

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:24 am: Edit

Zuk? We've met right? Think I'll fit in one of those? I could wear it like a jacket.

Alex

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:26 am: Edit

Face it, Alex, for what you want to do, you might as well do a Jeep or Ford Bronco. If your sights are set on rock crawling, you may as well just go cheap, because shit will break all the time anyway.

Also - What about building up and old Series with a newer V8 and coil coversion? Stay in the family and get the performance you desire.

Tom

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:30 am: Edit

I'm so confused....

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:35 am: Edit

WFO = wound flat out
Never rode dirt bikes in your youth, 'eh ??

Old Bronco's are nice - just like LR's...

keith
discosaurus

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:39 am: Edit

Or, just go buy one of Troy's old Sniper buggies.
You won't have to butcher any old classic, you can go ANYWHERE (off road) and tow it with your Disco.

Now, THAT would be classy - towing a Sniper or Scorp with a LR !

k
d

By Ron on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:50 am: Edit

What about building up and old Series with a newer V8 and coil
coversion? Stay in the family and get the performance you desire.

A know where you can get a cheap RR for the donor.

100in wheelbase, weld on the mounts for an series III 88 body about an inch higher, sawzall and a little welding and you got yourself a D100 for about 5k plus mods with a >90% approach and departure running 35s

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:57 am: Edit

No cash unless [until] I sell the disco. maybe I can make it work with the disco, we'll see....

Alex

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 08:00 am: Edit

WFO, eh? That's where the 2nd transfer case idea comes in. In theory, anyway.

Alex

By Drew on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 01:55 pm: Edit

What do you want your disco to do that it won't.
Drew

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Climb bigger rocks. Then bigger rocks than those. Then even bigger. You get the idea. And still be able to drive it on the highway.

I know I can winch over shit. I don't want to. They call it four-wheeling, not dragging-yourself-over-shit-with-your-winch, right?

Alex

By Jon E. Yermo (Jon) on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Alex,

Why don't you just take some of your caribiners and get yourself some rope and sticky shoes and be done with it. Sounds like you should keep the Disco, drive it to whatever granite monolith you think you need to climb then get all K6 or K12 or whatever on that ***t by foot. Honestly, will a cheap get you much further than that $80,000 rig you already have?

Jees!

God Save Land Rover

Erik

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:25 am: Edit

To each his own dude. If you like traipsing through the woods on logging roads and nothing else, more power to you.

Alex

By Ali on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 04:41 am: Edit

Alex,

I just caught wind of your intentions. Might I say, your vehicle is totally capable of doing the things you want to do. What is needed is more exposure to the rocky terrain and that's not here. You can only learn so much from this area - "Head West Young Man"!

With a little bit of re-gearing and a LOT less go juice you'll be able to climb over anything. I kept up with Mike pretty well if it wasn't for that damn Atomic Wedgie I got myself into! True, I dragged here and there but that's the price I pay for having a comfortable cruiser.

I sure hate to see you sell your rig. Our rigs can easily make it through Rubicon, Moab and the like. What it comes down to is practice, practice, practice, practice, ......

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:25 am: Edit

Nah...I think Alex want's to do this kind of shit.



I don't think he'll be doing it with a rover.

Actually Ali, you're right - we really need to get Alex on Golden Spike or up Pritchett so he can see what point A to B offroading is really like. ORV parks and WI forest roads only take a man so far before he need to expand his mind...

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:30 am: Edit

I'm by no means a perfect driver, hell maybe not even a good one. But I have run into ledges etc. where lack of ground clearance simply stops me. The one in attica where I tweaked my sill and slider is one, the back of the luncheon rock at the pipeline (the one sanchez calls moab) is another I haven't been able to drive over w/o winching. Get the front wheels over, and the back don't want to go - get stuck on trailing arm ears, trailing arms, driveshaft, frame, blah blah blah.....

But anyway, I'm not doing anything yet because I still have a few pmnts left on the disco. We'll see how I feel at that point.

I'm also not taking it wheeling again until I gain some confidence in the sliders' mounting point - I consider bending that sill to be a pretty big deal (and I didn't even hit it hard at all...I just caught the edge of the nerf bar on a rock and it levered everything up and in). That kind of shit pisses me off.

We'll see what happens... Now I've got my eye on a 85-87 4-runner instead of the FJ.. Seems like much less work, and room for the dog too.

I'll fix that sill when I get the truck back from e body shop for rust repairs. Then I'll figure out what to do with the slider - I'm not just going to put it back on without modifying the mounting somehow. Don't know how yet.

Thanks for your words.

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:34 am: Edit

Keith... I don't necessarily want to hump refrigerator sized boulders, but I think you kind of get the idea.

There are some dudes in oz that fit 35s to a disco and it looks pretty good. But the mods required for this are pretty big - body lifts, huge spring lifts, steering mods, a-arm mods, blah blah blah blah blah, and what you have left is a tall, narrow vehicle that I wouldn't have the confidence in to drive 2000 miles on the hwy.

Alex

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:36 am: Edit

Alex,

So your slider twisted or simply pushed upwards? Was the impact to the sill or to the nerf bar?

Tom

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:43 am: Edit

"Get the front wheels over, and the back don't want to go - get stuck
on trailing arm ears, trailing arms, driveshaft, frame, blah blah blah....."

Funny. You're at the same point a couple of the D-90 guys were at about a year ago. Of course, with the 33" max realistic tire size of a Disco, we all just got there sooner then them. Their solution was to take their existing D90's and turn them into rock buggies.

"(and I didn't even hit it hard at all...I just caught the
edge of the nerf bar on a rock and it levered everything up and in)"

Huh...maybe I'll reconsider adding nerf's on to my DR sliders. I don't think that kind of issue would happen to me - not enough lever arm. I suggest simply discussing it with John. He built the damn things - maybe he has a better way of mounting them.

"Now I've got my eye on a 85-87 4-runner instead of the FJ"

Dream on 'babe. To make that 4-runner go over bigger rocks then your Disco would make it damn near a trailer rig. I hope mid-80's 4-runners aren't IFS !!!

Anyway - you need to go in the direction that please's you the most. If that's rock crawling, sell your LR for sure and move to something else.

GL

k
d

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:59 am: Edit

Tom,

The edge of the nerf bar caugt a rock. Slider seems intact. It seems that there was a leverage effect there. It twisted the sill inwards and upwards.

Keith,

"Their solution was to take their existing D90's and turn them into rock buggies"

That seems like more trouble than it's worth, not to mention horribly impractical with a disco.

"I suggest simply discussing it with John"

I have and will again when I get the Disco back and can look at it more closely.

"Dream on 'babe. To make that 4-runner go over bigger rocks then your Disco would make it damn near a trailer rig. I hope mid-80's 4-runners aren't IFS !!!"

I have done some research on this, and it surely is a lot of work, but not as much as stretching an FJ. 86 and on are IFS and would require a straight axle conversion. 85 has both solid axles and EFI. Hard to find though, 86-87 is easier to find. An 85 would need the following:

-third member swaps with lockers
-axles
-d60 knuckle conversion for front
-disc brake conversion for back
-lift (springs, shackles, shocks, shockmounts)
-crossover steering, steering box for 85 model
-2nd transfer case, adapter, associated linkage, new gears for original transfercase
-new xfercase crossmember
-driveshafts
-bumpers, diff guards, rock sliders or whatever the toy guys call them
-bob tail 16" or so
-roll cage/new soft top for back
-new tailgate
-37x12.5 tires, beadlock wheels
-small misc stuff that I can't remember

That's about $15K or so in upgrades and a hell of a lot of work. Should be hwy drivable though. And would rock on the trail, not much question about that. It would of course require a truck from a desert state. Toys of that vintage around here have completely rusted out by now. Figure $5k or less for a running truck with a injected 22RE and 5 speed.

Anyway, I don't know yet which way I'll go, but if I sell the disco, that is almost certainly what I would get into.

Thanks for trying to save me

Alex

By Ali on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Dude,

Get a TJ and be done with it! Terraflex offers a nice package, coupled with Currie's reverse cuts and a nice crawler box, you got yourself a mean machine that's driveable on the hwy. Coils are way better than leaves bar none. Besides, the leaf sprung owners do an immediate "spring over" conversion to get more articulation anyway, resulting in a more tippy ride. You won't spend that much money on it even after all those upgrades.

Hate to see you get rid of the rig before realizing its potential though!

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 01:13 am: Edit

I haven't made up my mind yet. Need to do some more, in-depth research first.

I've pretty much ruled out short wheelbase vehicles though, that's why I'm looking at 4Runners. I really like the 100" wheelbase, and need at least a minimal amount of cargo capacity. Plus, after driving a Rover for 3 years, I don't know if I can take the "sameness" of a jeep.

Even if I get rid of the Rover I'll still wheel with you guys

Alex

PS. Here's a link that has pics of setups I like

http://www.allprooffroad.com/xtoys/panamint01/index.html

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:02 am: Edit

Alex, why are you looking at all those? We all know that articulation is useless. ;)

Tom

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:26 am: Edit

They're sexy, and that's all that matters .

Alex

By John on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:27 am: Edit

Alex, if you ultimately want 36"/37" tires I believe you said you better look for the good deal on that Toy...too keep the lift down and livable on your disco I am afraid you will have more sheet metal work on enlarging the front/rear wheel wells than you may want...just a thought.

By Ron on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:33 am: Edit

Two door disco body shell and a sawzall and you are there man.

Ron

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:37 am: Edit

Don't have to be 36/37. On a 4Runner, you might as well go that large, but I haven't ruled out anything yet.

Some guys over in Australia are running 35s on a Disco, but you gotta wonder what the roll angle is on that beast. And how quickly it eats CV joints. And what the top speed is on the HWY without a crawler box... And how much it would cost to take care of all that shit... And if when you finally do nail it all down,and spend all the $$$,and break the requisite parts, you don't have a mongrel that's still doesn't excell at what it's built to do.. .And........

But I'm keeping my options open for now. Any ideas are always welcome. What do you have planned, John? I know you're not stickin' with those 33s forever

Alex

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:40 am: Edit

Ron, swap the body? That's too much for me... Maybe on a Jeep or FJ, but a Disco? Too many freakin' wires running thru there. I have seen the Icelandic discos with 38s though. I would be afraid to drive that 16" lifted monster on any kind of side hill, wouldn't you?

Plus, it just don't look right. All out of proportion.

Yeah, I know I'm a PITA.

Alex

By John on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 02:41 am: Edit

Alex, to go to 35's you will end up:
Moving your front axle forward 1 1/2" with associated spring angle work.
Moving your rear axle back 1" minimum with associated spring angle work.
Longer rear links of course.
2 new longer custom driveshafts.
A minimum 4" to 4 1/2" lift to keep from cutting rear doors.
Extending the rear inner wheel wheel back on the inside cargo area about 3" and moving inward to line up with the frame to make and mount custon shock mounts that will mount the shock vertical.
And then using a 35" x 10 1/2",maybe 11 1/2" tire size...nothing wider.
And the additional things we run into in this process.....soooooooo, quite the chore to gain 2' in tire size.
Longer brake lines.
Shortening both rear and front bumper ends.
On the SG rear bumper remounting the inner wheel well mounting to fit the new wheel well shape.
Then you have a Disco 103....lol

By Alex Schubow (Alex) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 02:48 am: Edit

Uhhhh. That's not for me.... Is it for you? Looks like you've done the research. Are you planning on actually doing all that shit? Curious to know the answer

Alex

By John on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 03:24 am: Edit

Its just a due process where you start at the beginning and go to the end....all this is in my arena and just involves my labor, so in-expensive for me to do for myself. I forgot to add the CV upgrades you need for the 35" leap, along with spares in axles and cv,s. Of course we all know the best advantage is knowing its ok to winch and when to hook up the winch or turn away when we know we cant make it without breaking. Will I do it? I always have loved the challenge of doing things to see what I learn...from building long range guns, reloading, making my own bows and arrows, tying my own flies, building homes, bar tending, playing music and getting married. Will I do it? If I ever get time, yes.

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 03:25 am: Edit

I could see that being for me, but not for some years. Maybe that will be my Disco's 10 year anniversary setup.

Tom

By Ron on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 03:28 am: Edit

35 x 10.50 x 16 SSR just came out John

Ron