By KJ on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Just had a VERY scary thing happen that I can only characterize as a break failure. Driving 55 down a divided highway, the light ahead turned yellow. Could have gone either way, but I elected to stop. The stop turned into a panic stop and that's when I remembered with ABS to hit hard and hold. I did, it slowed a little, but not that much. I kept hard pressure up and nothing changed! This was all on level ground. It *slowly* slowed the truck, but we never shifted in our seats, even a little! The breaks simply were NOT functioning properly. There was a noise (a throaty roaring) as if the engine was still revving and I can't say that I felt any pulsation in the pedal at all. Although I'd read only this morning on this site that one shouldn't use the hand break AS a break, it was all I could think to do. That did nothing! I hope I haven't done a bad thing to my transmission (I let up after a scant few seconds as it was time to turn the steering wheel, and clearly the hand break was not helping), as was the warning in the thread I read. I was forced to either roll into the intersection or make a quick right, which is what I ended up doing. After that the breaks acted normally, but of course they were not tested in a panic type stop. David checked the fluids last week and will check again. This SO sucks and now, of course, I'm worried. I will be calling the dealership tomorrow, but in the meantime I'm wondering if anyone has any wisdom for me. Will the computer show what went wrong? Is this a commom complaint? Seems like I read a thread on DiscoWeb a few weeks back about someone considering a buy on a vehicle with a runaway throttle, does this ring a bell? Any replies appreciated.

Karen, really bummed, but safe at least

By Kyle on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Well Karen , lets see here. It pretty common for the brake and gas to get pushed in a pannick situation on the series 1. The pedals are pretty close together. I am not calling you stupid and not saying you have big feet but are you absolutely sure you didnt get them both when you matted the brake? I have been guilty of it myself from time to time...That would fully explain your scenario...

Kyle

By KJ on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 02:42 pm: Edit

Hi Kyle,

Well, without a slo-mo reply I guess I couldn't know, but at the outset it wasn't a panic stop, it was a normal stop until it *didn't* stop and I stomped it. I see exactly what you are saying, and I'm still getting used to the truck, so it's possible. I guess I'll feel better if no one has ever heard of such a thing happening as a consequence of a mechanical failure. Tomorrow in the sunlight I'll have a look at how close the pedals are to one another and try to recreate that possibility. Thanks for the input.

Karen, size 8 1/2 BTW ;)

By kyle on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Is that big feet for a chick ? The hand brake is also pretty damn effective. Thats also why I am thinking maybe you got em both. Probably the best thing you can do to rest your own mind is get on some desolated county roads and do some pannick stops to regain your trust in the Disco.Dont really need to do them froma high speed but fast enough to replicate your event. This will also show ya if something maybe is failing without putting you at risk. Its a nice night for a drive..

Kyle

By KJ on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 03:09 pm: Edit

HAHAHA, no, that's a very average shoe size for a chick! Kyle, I'm thinking this over carefully and your scenario is certainly a real possibility. I LIVE on that isolated country road you're talking about and in the cold light of day tomorrow I'm going to experiment. I keep thinking of those poor folks who ran their old Audis into pedestrians and such, because the pedals were so close to one another. As for the hand break, would it in fact cause transmission trouble to use it as a break? That makes no sense to me, but I swore I read that earlier today on a thread here. Thanks once more.

Karen

By kyle on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Naaa , want affect the trans. Maybe the T box but thats only if it started jumping and carrying on..

Kyle

By gil on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 02:42 am: Edit

everytime my girlfriend drives my disco she tells me the engine roars when she brakes..it never happens to me...as it turns out she has a foot on ther brake, but the angle she has her foot also catches a corner of the gas, hence the revving when braking. oh yeah, and shes got tiny little feet..ill go with kyle and bet that was what happened...

By Jon Williams (Jonw) on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 04:59 am: Edit

Seems like I saw that thread on not using the hand brake. I wouldn't recommend doing it as a normal practice, but since the drum is on the rear output shaft of the transfer case (effectively the rear driveshaft) I don't see why it would cause a whole lot of damage to your transmission, or anything else for that matter, if you used it to stop in the case of a brake failure. But I also know Discos have a dual-circuit brake system that prevents a complete loss of braking should one circuit fail. Of course, you'll only get diminished braking with the backup circuit, but it'll stop. And if all else fails, the brakes will work without vacuum assist, but the brake pedal will be really hard to push down. Still, it'll stop...

By kyle on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 06:08 am: Edit

You come up with anything yet big foot ?

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 06:16 am: Edit

Also throw in the ABS kicking in while stepping on the brake and gass and you'll get all sorts of weird sounds and shit.

rd

By William Turner (Wturner) on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 07:10 am: Edit

My breaks ABS kicks quite often. Really only if I'm on a wet or dirt or dirty road, but on those roads it doesn't take much, and does it a lot easier than any other ABS equiped vehicle I've ever driven. It only does it on a dry paved road if I panic stop or if I am pissed off and driving agressive. So that's what it is suposed to do.

Just curious if that is normal. My Isuzu Rodeo I had before never did that, but it was also a POS.

By KJ on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 08:49 am: Edit

This just in: I'M INCOMPETENT!!!!!! YEAAAAH! I've never been so happy in my life to be lousy at something! Kyle, I think you are exactly right about my mishap last night. I must have hit the very corner of my accelerator pedal as I was breaking. I experimented carefully today and I can see how that could have happened. I've never had that happen in any other vehicle before, but I position my right foot differently in the Disco than in any other vehicle. To avoid my right knee fatiguing, I put my foot all the way right, up against the side wall. The travel to my break pedal probably seems farther than it is as a result. I could easily span the narrow gap between pedals with my foot and impact both of them simutaneously. So, mystery solved, my mind is at ease on this one, and I can go back to loving and trusting my truck. Thanks to everyone for their input. This is Sasquach, signing off! ;)

By gp (Garrett) on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 09:13 am: Edit

Best if you don't wear those silly Ronald McDonald shoes too!!! size 8-1/2.......heck i dated a girl with 10-1/2's. i think she is one of Stone Colds ladies in the WWF now.

my current girlfriend was complaining about the same thing. (brake and gas to close) just not used to driving my truck i guess. and now she is no longer allowed to drive it since she is always telling me to just park in a parking garage in town. (she forgets that my truck with a wilderness rack and hellas juuuuuuuust won't fit) by about a foot!!!

By KJ on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 11:21 am: Edit

gp,

Trade ya my clown shoes for that rack of yours.....

Karen ;)

By EricRat on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 03:41 pm: Edit

I have done this too, quite unerving.

By Barry on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Karen,

Kyle is right on. The first week I had my DSII, I have to admit, twice I nearly gave myself a heart attack during slow parking lot maneuvers.

Nothing like hearing that engine rev while brakes are "failing" you ;') Those pedals are definitely close together.

-Barry (13 inches)

By KJ on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 07:43 am: Edit

Well, it looks like I'm in good company on this one. If this is such a common problem, wouldn't you think this would be addressed in a new model revision? I know, I know, add it to the list, but it would seem a serious safety concern trumps things like rattling sunroofs or improved cupholders....

Karen

By Kyle on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 07:48 am: Edit

Hmm
Dont get me started on ya Karen. Nothing wrong with the location. it makes your pedal to pedal transition faster by being semi close. Also probably makes it easier on them for the manuals and autos and the assembly. If you change it around much it generates the need for maore parts and complicates your rover. I blamed me when I did it and called myself a few names. It seems to have worked. I have big feet as well though so I am sure its just a matter of time...

Kyle

By milan on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 08:30 am: Edit

In an auto-tranny equiped vehicle, isn't one supposed to use right foot for the gas and left for the brake?

I think that's why they make that brake pedal wider, so either foot can be used.

By KJ on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 09:26 am: Edit

LOL, I hear ya Kyle. O.K., here's my fix: Call myself a few choice names, slap on a DiscoWeb sticker and improve driver ability and gas mileage in one fell swoop!

Karen, so damned much to learn.... ;)

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit

"In an auto-tranny equiped vehicle, isn't one supposed to use right foot for the gas and left for the brake?"

Only if one is in the USA and a poor driver...

keith
discosaurus

By Roverine on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 03:32 pm: Edit

heh, heh, heh, you're not alone, Karen

GP - don't you dare dis my Ronald McDonald shoes! (my favorites) I also have Ronald McDonald desert boots, hiking boots ....

Kim
also size 8 1/2!

By chuanchen on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 03:50 pm: Edit

"In an auto-tranny equiped vehicle, isn't one supposed to use right foot for the gas and left for the brake?"

In fact, this is sometimes true on auto-tranny equiped 4x4 vehicles during off-road. I assume this is why LR makes brake pedal wider than others.

chuanchen

By Al on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Ahh, but if you use two feet for driving, how do you brace in an accident?

You can't. Human nature being what it is, starts bracing for impact. Only that usually means standing on the brakes too, if you're left foot braking.

If you only use the one foot, or drive a manual, you can brace with your left foot (either on the clutch pedal or on the footrest in an auto), then provide the correct amount of brake pressure required.

By milan on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 08:55 pm: Edit

I don't know about the bracing. I rely on the belts to catch me and I'm not sure what my feet would do in an accident where I'm about to hit something. I hope they would do what they're used to - left trying to brake and front off the gas.
If the natural reaction is to put the feet through the floor, the I guess having only the right foot on the pedals is better.

I drive both manual and auto vehicles and I like to trail the brakes sometimes going into the corner. Right foot on the gas and left foot on the brake seems to work on both vehicles and actually better on the auto equiped one. In traffic, having the foot near the brake also seems to help shorten my reaction times.

I was really just asking to see what other people's driving styles were.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 02:33 am: Edit

My left foot is a clutch-only foot. That way, when you jump between vehicles, from a manual to an auto and back, your right foot is used for the gas and brake in either vehicle (and under most driving you need one or the other), and you left foot either works the clutch or it doesn't.


In a few situations, yes, the left foot will cover the brake, but only for special circumstances, usually is just staying out of the way in the Disco...


I would think that the wider brake pedal is more a function of having the room for a nice fat pedal because of the absence of a clutch pedal.

IMHO, YMMV....

-L

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 06:26 am: Edit

The brake pedal is big and wide because the primary volume adopter of power assisted brakes (GM & Ford) in the 1950's made them that way.

How else could you get the words POWER BRAKES in big letters on there !

Seriously, too many schools are teaching our kids to drive with two feet. Not only does this make it extremely hard to teach them how to use a REAL gearbox (), but, IMO, it's dangerous. How many people do you see each day riding their brakes as they accelerate away from a stop ? They simply use tht big 'ol POWER BRAKE pedal as a foot rest.

Yeah, racers two foot brake all the time - one on the gas and one heel & toe'ing the brake and clutch. And, rock crawlers with sissy autobox's two foot drive all the time. These are special situations and not applicable to OTR driving.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. That goes for driving, too.

keith
discosaurus

By Milan on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 06:35 am: Edit

I guess I got into using my left foot for braking when I broke my right leg. So I really started by using my left foot for both the gas and the brake. It took a bit of getting used to as I used to be a "left foot = clutch only" guy as well. Talk about wierd. Then once my leg healed I just kept using left for the brake and right for the gas. Later, when I got my truck, I started driving it without using the clutch when shifting. So I just kept on using my left foot on the brake. It's only a matter of habit. I still prefer to use the right foot on the brake in a 3-pedal vehicle (old habits die hard). Furthermore, I can't understand how somebody can drive a vehicle with the steering wheel on the right side. Right being wrong, of-course. It's not the driving on the left side of the road that would bother me. I just could not shift with my left hand. But I'm digressing.

By Milan on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 06:42 am: Edit

Keith,
I agree that too many people ride the brake or use it as a foot rest. That seemed so odd to me when I started driving in NA. People always on the brakes (and braking on green light in anticipation of amber/yellow light coming on. I thought the yellow was there to warn you the red light was about to come on. hehehehe) But that's not what I'm talking about. It does boil down to proper technique and I do believe in doing things well too.

BTW, heel&toe technique is typically used on the brake and gas.

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 06:49 am: Edit

"BTW, heel&toe technique is typically used on the brake and gas."

Ahhh, this was true - but now, most of the professional shoes are doing it the other way.

I've never been able to perfect the technique. I even went as far as putting a pedal kit in one of my ALFA's that changed the gas pedal height - didn't do me any good. My Dad was an expert - watching him do it always made me feel sort of worthless on the track...

keith
discosaurus

By Jon Williams (Jonw) on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 07:24 am: Edit

Aw, come on, Milan, driving on the right-hand side of the vehicle is fun Shifting with your left hand isn't as bad as you'd think, either. My '95 Disco is left-hand drive, of course, but my SIIA is right-hand drive. I've become accustomed to switching between the two, but the big inconvenience is going through a drive-through in my SII. The person at the window always looks at you funny, then they frown as they lean out the window half-way into my truck to meet me in the middle LOL Tollbooths are a pain, too

By Ron on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 07:27 am: Edit

"going through a drive-through in my SII (RHD)"

Drive through backwards. Great fun

Ron

By Jon Williams (Jonw) on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 07:37 am: Edit

LOL I'll have to try that

By Milan on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 07:46 am: Edit

Keith,
When I watch pros tap dance on the pedals I feel worthless too. I have seen one guy use his left foot to do what looked like heel&toeing clutch and brake and then at other times use the right to heel&toe the brake and gas. But I thought it was unusual and that maybe I was not seeng it correctly. In any case, there are many that don't use the clutch at all and that's what I call real skill. Especially at high speeds on the track where you constantly shift.

Ron,
You funny guy. How do you order when that intercom speaker is on the other side of the drive through? Or do you drive in, pickup your food, pay at the first window, then thank them using the intercom and then crash into the oncoming vehicle? That must be scary!

By Ron on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 07:56 am: Edit

You drive in reverse the whole way, not go though going forward in backwards order

"there are many that don't use the clutch at all and that's what I call real skill."

I knew I stopped using the clutch for a reason (other than my left knee is torn to h**l), I have a skill woo hoo!

By milan on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 01:01 pm: Edit

I was pretty sure you did not go through the drive through the wrong way (then again we're talking about you).
But I had no idea you had a skill.

I'm still in a dire need of one. Well I do know how to waste time and money. Does that count? This conversation is turning...

By Kyle on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Yeah , keep that left foot off that brake while on the road. Also , Ali , be very carefull about bracing yourself in a crash with tht left foot.My left leg in general has suffered some trauma so I am a bit protective of it but in most offset crashes the wheel will be occupying that space in the foot well . You dont want your feet anywhere in the area , I assure you the wheel will win.

Kyle