SOLAROS - SAE Pictures

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Legal Recourse  1   09/21 10:49am


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Frank Avent on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 01:30 pm: Edit

SAE Pictures are at: http://www.airlineinfo.com/open/SOLAROS-SAE/index.htm

Pictures of my Disco are at: http://www.airlineinfo.com/open/solaros/index.htm

Frank

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Diesel on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 04:03 pm: Edit

Frank,

What happened to the zebra striped series III? It looks like it rolled. Is there a story behind it?

Diesel

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Norman on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 05:35 pm: Edit

Diesel, the SIII did roll. The owner/driver was Steve D. and he rolled on his 3rd attempt up arguably the hardest obstacle at the event. Not only was it the hardest obstacle but he tried the most difficult line. No one was hurt, no alcohol was involved, just one bitch of an obstacle. He rolled late Friday night, we left the truck there over night and then went back Sat. morning to recover it in the daylight for additional safety reasons.
Just for reference, to my knowledge there was not one person that made it up the obstacle without winching. This obstacle was the the first on the upper section of one of the hardcore trails.
The roll was unfortunate but that is a risk that comes with riding the hardcore trails. Steve is a good friend of mine and is one of the best offroaders (with the balls to try the hardest lines) that I have ever met.
Come Sat. morning and alittle wrenching and the truck was back ready for more.
There is no 'story' behind the roll other than it was a tough obstacle and a hard line. The rest is just one of the things that comes with the hardcore bit.
Take it easy, and thanks again Frank for posting some pictures as I didn't have time to get out and take any. Norman

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Diesel on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 04:05 am: Edit

Good to hear that no one was hurt. Those series trucks are tough animals to keep down.

Diesel

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Anonymous on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 04:51 am: Edit

no alcohol was involved

Not what I heard from those who were there.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By William Turner (Wturner) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 05:11 am: Edit

OUCH!

Easy, killer! We are all friends here! :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By kyle on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 05:38 am: Edit

Yeah , from what I get trickled down there is always some Booze at the events and always some broken junk in the end....


Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 07:40 am: Edit

Hmmm - wasn't there, but ya gotta wonder about the photo of the rolled Series with a cooler full of beer bottles and cans in the foreground :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Anonymous on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 07:43 am: Edit

That guy was wasted at MAR last year too.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Anonymous on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 09:14 am: Edit

Aww come on guys! Those beers in that pic SURELY weren't being drunk by anyone driving??? In the South?? At night in the woods?? Hope none of those soldiers got spilled when the truck rolled :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Anonymous on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 09:27 am: Edit

Those beers in that pic SURELY weren't being drunk
by anyone driving??? In the South?? At night in the woods??


Ain't that the truth

"former drunk southerner"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By William Turner (Wturner) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:01 am: Edit

I second that (or is it third, after the second anonymous seconded it).

I live in a county (southern Central Texas) that at one time held the national record for alcohol consumption per-capita (pound for pound).

Many of my friends and I contribute to that as well and I am only 20! Uh oH, hope none of you are COPS!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ignorant Law Maker on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:25 am: Edit

William, if you're only 20, then you CAN'T be drinking. Didn't you know that? Since it's illegal, it obviously CAN'T happen. We have LAWS in place that PREVENT things like this from happening. You are obviously mistaken, you have never consumed alcohol.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By William Turner (Wturner) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:35 am: Edit

Actually you are right Mr. Maker (can I just call you Ignorant). I am WAY to immature to handle alcohol now. But, in a month and a half I will have gained all the maturity and resposability to handle alcohol consumption! I have, however, been mature enough for almost 3 years now to carry a gun in a foreign country and take the life of another man if the need should arise (like NOW). It all makes since. Thanks for doing all that hard work to make those great laws sir! :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Chris Dillard (Cdillard) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:46 am: Edit

I can say that the obstacle in question was arguably one of THE toughest on the hardcore trails. I winched up it along with several very well equipped 90's and Frank Avent's very capable Disco (Frankenstein). For me, I really needed some alcohol for that trail and that obstacle! :-)> I made it out with no problems and only a small bend in my skid plate. The total event was a great time.

Cheers,
Chris

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Ignorant Law Maker on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 11:06 am: Edit

No problem, William, it's my job. Now please finish your sippy cup full of orange juice and go stop a bullet for me in the middle east. I have to get back to pushing legislation for another pay raise for myself. Then I have to molest an intern and dispose of the body. All in a day's work.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By William Turner (Wturner) on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 11:13 am: Edit

I want your job!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Southern Gentleman on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Anonymous, I was there, less than 10 feet away when the truck rolled. When I said alcohol wasn't involved, I meant the driver wasn't drunk. The truck rolled due to the obstacle.
There was alcohol at the event, however everyone was responsible in their drinking. Out of all the events we have had, alcohol has yet to be a problem. When it becomes one, we will ban it at events.
However, we DON'T condone drinking and driving on road or offroad. However, popping a few at the campsite is another story.
Also, that cooler in the picture was not left there so apparently those who came after we left brought it.
Leaving a cooler full of beer in the woods, that is an outrage.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 04:22 am: Edit

So what you are saying is that the guy doesnt know "when to say when" in regards to an obstacle but does in regards to the booze? I got it now... :) Makes sense !!!

Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Troy on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 11:20 am: Edit

Ummmm, are you saying that cooler wasn't on the truck when it flipped? I shoveled all the broken glass laying around (presumably from that cooler) back into that cooler Saturday morning after the roll. The cooler looked as bad as the truck . . .8^}
Troy

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 11:54 am: Edit

So how did it rate Troy ? Same old "Organised" bullshit?

Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Troy on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 07:16 pm: Edit

Kyle,
Organised? Yes, with regards to Solaros as far as I could tell (the only thing I did at camp was eat the dinner, the rest of the time I was wheeling --- darn, even missed the raffle) . . .

But, like with every one of these things I've been to, there's always someone or some group that feels like they gotta do things their own way without regard to the other people around them. I can't understand this I'm THE BIG MAN here; I'm going to do "this" (trail ride, event, etc.) my way -- screw everyone else that's here this weekend, this little rover universe revolves around me & I have a total lack of consideration & respect for anyone else, let-me-be-a-prick-so-everyone-will-think-I'm-cool sort of attitude. I've accepted that it's, unfortunately, a part of all of these events. Though, it's only a very small handful of people that cop that sort of 'tude. Not to mention the lack of TREAD LIGHTLY (& people wonder why trails are being closed while they throw a beer can out the window) --- but that's another rant-

The flip side and the good news is rarely do I have to be around those people, the majority are just happy to be in the woods with their trucks (& do TREAD LIGHTLY) and at that rally I met some great new people & shared a drink with some old friends-

Troy
ps-I'm moving to CO this week & the truck is being shipped out this week and should be there the next. Anyone want to hit some local CO trails in the upcoming weeks? I'll be in the Boulder area-

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By JC on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 08:33 pm: Edit

I'd have to agree with you Troy. That whole attitude and mentality really bothers me, especially considering the bad publicity 4-wheeling has gotten of late, and all the trail closures that have occured as a result. Think these groups wouldn't love to get their hands on some pics of a rolled truck and cooler of open beers right there next to it? I don't know what went on, I wasn't there, but some implications could definetly be made from those pics, none of them being good for the SOLAROS club, or 4-wheeling in general.
I'm going to stop here with this or I'll rant. I enjoyed the SAE (I think.), but I have a real problem with the attitudes of SOME of the people that were there. Not sure if I'll do another big organized event like this again, or if I do, I'll find a decent group and just stick to the trails. I went to have a good time, not to take smart ass comments from people who don't even know me.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By NB on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 03:43 pm: Edit

JC, what comments and 'bad apples' would you be refering too? You don't have to name anyone, but in order to make an event better we would like to know where problems exist. Not that we could keep anyone from coming based on their attitudes, but we would like to make the event into a more pleasurable time.
Also, Kyle, considering you didn't bother to come, I don't see where your comments about the alcohol and driving should be given. The guy rolled on his 3rd attempt. Do you usually give up on your second attempt at an obstacle? The obstacle was difficult and the line taken made it even more so. Also, outside of the 'Rover' world of offroading events it is not uncommon to have trucks roll while offroad. Happens quite frequently actually. The harder the trail, the more difficult the obstacle and the propensity to roll gets bumped up a notch.
NB

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Sure , so you propegate the "Damage happens" bullshit.I am sure that if booze was involved it didnt impare anyone,,,,right? My comments are from hearing story after story over and over about the booze and "Happenings" at the events. And now you are telling me about the hard trails and the rolling over ? Please tell me more ? What about the guys spotter ? All those people around at events to look after each other and shit like that still happens. Lay it out for me NB ?


Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit

And to answer your question about my attempts at obstacles ? I stop when common sense tells me to. Its kept me shiny side up and mostly dent free.. I suppose since that is my motto I will be considerd not to be "Hard core"... :)

Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By NB on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Kyle, I am not going to run this topic into the ground, however here are my comments. First, the guy driving is a very good driver, on his 3rd attempt he almost made it over. In retrospect should he have pulled the capable? In my opinion, yes. There is no need to roll a truck or damage a vehicle when you can winch over and keep going. However, the driver is not one to pull the cable as frequently.
Second, I never said alcohol doesn't impair one's judgement or actions, I just said that HE was not drunk and was thinking clearly (the reason I say that is because I have known the guy for along time), he just has this thing about making it up without the use of a winch. I know, I know, and yes I agree.
Before I got into rovers I owned afew j**ps and they had a tendency to roll very easily. I laid mine over more than once(not a roll but laid over on their sides). And I stand by my comments that the harder the obstacle the more likely damage, laying it over, or a roll is increased. I have know idea what kind of offroading you do and am not in any way saying that you don't do any hardcore trails, but there is different terrain (trails) throughout the country and each has there difficult spots, some can roll a truck or cause other damage. For example, I have seen people lay trucks over on upper 2 at tellico, where other trucks cruise through. The damage and such depends not only on the driver and obstacle, but in the vehicle. Keep in mind that the truck that rolled was a series truck and although it had some mods to the susp. it still doesn't flex like the coil sprung vehicles with upgrades. The obstacle that he rolled on was one where flex would have helped him, but he just didn't have enough. There has yet to be anyone make it up that part of the trail without winching and in my opinion that is why he was trying so hard.
Look, the truck rolled, everyone is ok, the truck is ok, and everyone can wheel another day. We will however work on that part of the trail to try and keep this from happening again.
Now then, why don't we all just enjoy offroading and stop the bickering between each other. NB

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Anonymous on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:03 am: Edit

In the words of Homer Simpson..."Ahhh...beeeer..."

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By William Blakely on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Norman,

You are a bold faced liar and have now lost credibility by defending the drunken fool. He was drinking that night. We all saw him and drank with him. I agree that we should cease the bickering and I don't think alcohol should be banned anywhere for any reason. However, he is an ass. Sober drunk whatever and THAT is why there have been so many people taking shots at him on most of the boards out there. I hope Steve is reading this and will learn that being a short fat drunk man is no excuse for being an asshole. And he is an asshole!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Well alrighty then , there you have it ,,,, LOL. Norman ?

Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By NB on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 06:08 pm: Edit

William, I am not a liar as you described. I clarified my statement by saying that he wasn't drunk at the time of the roll. Was he drinking, yes. Was he drunk, no. However, when he got back to camp, that is a different story. He had afew too many once back. But my statements were for the roll. Reread my statements, I said that he wasn't drunk when the roll occurred, however after we got back alot more drinking took place. That is somewhat understandable considering his truck was left on the trail and had to be trailered back the next day. If I had just rolled my truck and had to leave it on the trail I would probably have a few drinks once back at camp as well. However, I will agree that he did have a few too many once back at camp. I am not defending him, just stating what happened. He actually pissed me and a friend off later that night, so I understand where your resentment comes into play. I thought his actions later that night were out of line and my friend and Steve actually had words with each other. So, don't think that I am defending him as a person, I am just trying to clarify that earlier at the time of the roll he was not drunk, and most that were there at the roll would agree with me on that, however they would also agree that his actions later that night were out of line, and I would be one of those people.
There were a few people there that need to learn when to say when. However, the roll was earlier in the day when the alcohol wasn't flowing freely.
Now then, I haven't said anything to anyone on this board that was offensive to them personally, and your comments calling me liar were uncalled for. First off, I didn't lie. My first statement was that alcohol wasn't the reason for the roll. Some misunderstood my statement so I clarified by stating that he was not drunk. Alcohol was present but Steve wasn't drunk and therefore my statements were true that alcohol was not the cause of the roll.
If Steve pissed you off at the event, take that up with him. I am not involved in that. I am just stating about the roll. Also, if he did piss you off, you were not alone. But again, that is not what my statements were about nor was I defending him. Just giving what happened during the roll.
Also, this is pointless. My comments were not about Steve as a person, just about the roll, so just let it be. NB

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By MTB on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 08:08 pm: Edit

NB
I was not there But how do you define Not Drunk.
I know alot of people that can drink and not look or act Drunk But be legally drunk. You said it happened late Friday night I assume he got there and just hit the trail. Or did he stop off say howdy to some of the boys drink a beer or more or maybe some liquor it's quicker.
Like I said I was not there so I don't know if he was drunk or not. But I know I could stand in front of you legally drunk and you would not know that I was drinking unless you smelled it.
So why even try to defend the guy unless you were with him all day.
Not trying to piss you off just asking a question.

Michael B

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By NB on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 04:16 am: Edit

Michael, Like I posted earlier, I am not defending the guy personally. Just stating about the roll. The roll happened right at dark. I was with him for most of the day upto the roll. When I say he wasn't drunk, I mean I didn't see him have more than 2 beers. Which for him and most people would not render them drunk.
Like I said, the roll happened right at dark although we didn't leave the trail till alittle later. We were back at camp shortly after the roll somewhere around 9pm or so. The heavy drinking happened after we returned and this is where people get the idea that he was drunk. Also, there was no liquor involved at all until late, late that night back at camp. But like I said, at the time of the roll it was still relatively early and I didn't see him drink more than 2 (if that), and yes I was with him for several hours prior to the incident.
For those hours prior to us going out, he and others were busy working on his truck putting in a new double cardon driveshaft and other misc. things. This whole thing is just blown out of proportion by people that weren't with him prior too or there when he rolled. Only those that were there know what happened.
So far, out of those that have posted here, there are only Frank A., Chris D., and Troy, that were at the event, however none of them were with us on that ride. So, this whole topic is being driven by people that weren't present and are just going on what they heard. And we all know how stories can get turned around and stuff added to them.
This topic is pointless, everyone should just let it go. NB

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 04:49 am: Edit

Will Norm , the topic isnt pointless at all. These folks should know the whole story on what they will encounter at the events that are put on. Dont you think? This crap is common place at pretty much every one of them.

Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By michel on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:56 am: Edit

So you guy's think that if the guy was drunk that means if you stay sober this wont happen to you? Again it sounds like if you can find anything to blame the roll over on it's better than just saying the guy fucked up, made a mistake, driver error, but I guess that is too scary, we don't fuck up, hell we don't drink on the trail so shit won't happen. LOL

I think the point here is more in the details of what happened. The guy tried a bit to hard to overcome this obsticle, and should of used other means to do so.

Michel

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Kyle on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 07:01 am: Edit

Yeah Michel , thats pretty obvious. But "Liquid balls" make you do all kinds of dumb shit. if they drink of dont drink , roll over or dont roll over , makes no difference to me really because I dont go. But people reading this web site shouldnt get the wrong impression of the "Organized" events and its good to get real opinions of those who attend. I dont see where booze has a place there at all . Its not a "Must" and can make things pretty uncomfortable for those around that arent drinking..

Kyle

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 07:20 am: Edit

well if i couldn't drink at these events i wouldn't go... thats part of the fun.


now i'm not saying you should be aloud to drink and drive, just do the boozin after.

rd

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 08:48 am: Edit

I would agree that having a few beers after a trail ride is fun. I like to sit around a fire, have some beers, and shoot the shit. But, you shouldn't be allowed to drink and them drive on the trails or drink while driving on the trails. Drunk or not drunk if you have a couple you are more likly to get bolder then if you didn't have any. You may not be drunk but, your judgement is still affected. There should be a no drinking before or durring a trail ride rule for not only the driver but, the passengers as well. If some one wants to get drunk and go wheeling they can go get their own chunk of land and drive all over it. But, giving the greenies anything that they can use to close a trail down affects all of us. I would really hate to have no where to drive my Disco. Not to mention that people could get really hurt. Not only in the truck but others as well.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Michel on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 08:56 am: Edit

No shit, it's just that that point is so blatently obvious. What is less obvious is balls in the wrong place is also not a good thing and what people think are balls is really inexperiance and or stupidity.

As for organized events we'll, I know the one that gets put on around here has no booze, and families are more comfortable bringing their kids, and nobody has to deal with the enivitable drunks in the crowd. So it is indeed good to know before you go.

Michel

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 09:10 am: Edit

I will agree with that. Some people just have balls, are inexperianced (that's me), or just plain stupid. If they are drinking though it adds to it. Balls get bigger, inexperianced get more daring, and the stupid are still stupid.


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