By charles on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 01:50 pm: Edit

First of all, I bought a new disco2 few months ago and the main reason is that I grown up in an old british colony (Hong Kong) and was in the regiment where we all use the LR (I have not driven one thou.) Police vehicles are also LR, even the governers usually own RRs.
Therefore, I am pretty attached to LR and somehow, I bought my first DISCO2.

However, my friends always ask me why LR is better than... say 4Runner, LX400, Jeep, Land Cruiser, the last or older version of Montero? It leak, it uses lots of gas, it is slow, and it is known for having so many problems.

I truely do not know how to answer that, except "because it is a LR, it is featured in the Camel, it must be a good truck."

I did try, and will try again and again, to go offroad in my disco, unlike my mother....

Anyway, I like my disco2 very much and will keep it until I cannot manage its leaks.

Hope someone can give me some insight.

---Charlie

By William Turner (Wturner) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 03:00 pm: Edit

A simple multiplication problem will provide the answer

Best4x4xfar = Land Rover

By peter matusov on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Charlie,

you should sign up for lr-discovery mailing list, you'll get faster responses :-)

#1 - it is a Land Rover.

#2 - body - on - fully boxed frame design.
(no other manufacturer, maybe except for Steyr-Puch, does that).

#3 - solid axles front and rear.
(only other manufacturer in the U.S. offering
this is the Jeep, but they don't have station wagons that fit under #2). It gives you amazing suspension articulation, together with nearly 5000lb weight.

#4 - 1/2 to 3/4 ton running gear on largely 1/4-ton truck. Jeep used to do it, but not anymore. The only manufacturer that had full-floating rear axle on an SUV.

#5 - 3.27 low range ratio in the transfer case. No other manufacturer has it.

#6 - V8. the two engines close to it are jeep's 4 liter I6 and GM's 4.3 liter V6. But GM's SUVs aren't worth a damn off road.

the same applies to Disco-1.

as far as comparisons go -
- I had a jeep cherokee XJ (small one). With one rear wheel on a curb, I couldn't open or close tailgate, and doors wanted to jam, too.
- I've been in the desert with a fellow in a 4-Runner. He tried to do the same sand hill climb as I did, and ruined wheel alignment on independent front suspension of his Toyota. Could never get it right since.
- if you drive a Ford Explorer's one wheel onto the curb, the other wheel on the same side will come off the ground.
- Ford Explorers became famous for barrel-rolling on the highway when one front tire blew out. Recently in L.A., a Range Rover Classic was stolen, driven over the spike strip, and then driven for 12 miles with THREE tires blown.
- Land Cruisers are good, but fat, and cost twice as much as a Disco.

that's all for now,

peter

By Mike B. on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 04:55 pm: Edit

All Land Rovers are hand made low volume vehicles. So, expect some problems. At their heart, Land Rovers are true off-road vehicles. Everyone else (except maybe for the Wrangler) is a pickup truck with a big box added and 4 wheel drive thrown in for good measure. NOT the same thing.

Take the parking brake; in a Rover it still works even if you remove all of the brake shoes, brake lines, master cylinder, etc. No other SUV can do that.

All axles have breathers run up very high inside the vehicle (about 3 feet). This prevents water from getting inside and ruining the diffs in the event that you accidently take it through some deep water. Nobody else does that (at least not to my knowledge). Even the front fog lights have breathers attached to keep them from cracking when you go through deep water.

The Transfer Case (LT230) is rated at 12,000 or 14,000 lbs (can't remember the exact number right now). Ford uses it in their big Ford F250 pickup trucks, not in their SUVs.

The frame is strong like a tractor. Put it in any position and the doors will still open and close.

Wheel lugs, door trim panels, aluminum rims, gas tank, shock mounts, power steering mounts, diffs, axles, diff joints, etc. are all way overbuilt. Coils springs with a long travel suspension has always been standard. Anti-lock brakes, side impact beams, and air bags were all standard before the rest of the industry followed suit. And, it was designed to work as well off-road as on-road. Also, you don't see a large aftermarket for Rovers because of the lower volumes of vehicles, but also because most of the parts are designed correctly in the first place. Take Jeep for example, the steering boxes are way too weak, so we see tons of aftermarket parts. I'd dare anyone to find me an aftermarket for the power steering boxes (OK, so the seals leak, but they don't break!)

How many engines can ingest a belly full of water and still come back good as new? I've personally worked on 4 Rovers that ingested water and they are all running great (I live in Florida, so deep water is pretty common). This is because Land Rover underbuilds their engines. This follows their 'Tractor' mentality from the 1940's. It is not unusual to see 40 and 50 year old tractors running around.

Don't get me started on the benefits of Aluminum over steel. Also, look closely at the paint job on your Disco and compare it to any other SUV. It's totally different. It's close in quality to what you would see on an expensive Merceedes or BMW.

Next, pull up the carpets in the back of your Disco. Notice how Land Rover even finishes the rear cargo area under the carpet (an area that you will probably never ever see). The entire inside of the vehicle is done this way (don't ask me how I know...). I have no idea why. It seems like a lot of extra work to me. Now, go and pull up the seats on any SUV and you will find total garbage under there. While I am at it, look at the actual carpets themselves. They're not geat to look at, but go and look at the carpet in a 94 Disco and compare it to any other 94 US made vehicle. I'll bet the Disco looks much better.

Ok, now go and check out the leather of any US or Japan made vehicle. Chances are the leather is toast after only three or four years. Now, go and look at the leather in a Disco. I have a 98 Disco and mine still looks new. I've seen a bunch of 96 Discos with really nice leather seats.

Finally, (as if this was not way too long already; sorry!), but how many 30 to 40 year old vehicles do you see on the road (other than Rovers)? Keep this in perspective, as not a lot of Rovers were being imported 30 years ago. Not only are a vast number of the Rovers still on the road, many are still driven daily and driven hard off-road. That is like taking a 100 old man out and asking him to RUN a marathon.

I'd not tell my friends anything. Rovers are much more than a sum of their parts. And Rover owners know it. And your smart friends know it too, they're just busting on you. Your stupid friends don't get it and no amount of effort on your part will help. Just thell them that it's a jeep and let them get on with their lives.

Thanks,
Mike B.

P.S. - This is the short version. Email me if you want the regular or the long version.

By KJ on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Man, this is the most self-affirming thread I've read in a long time! I want to go kiss my Disco....even more than I usually do (G). Nice distillation of info guys, thanks!

Karen

By Steve (Steve2) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:03 pm: Edit

charles-

when and where were you in hk? i was there 69-79 on hong kong island. did you go to school there? i was at hkis, kjrs then island school on borret road halfway thru 3rd form. i remember seeing the rhkp landies series II and IIIs with their blue lights driving around central and wanchai.

nai ho ma?
steve

By Cal on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Go look at any other 4x4 with a frame. Look under the vehicle. Most of these frames have only 3 sides. When taken off road some even twist so much that there windshields get cracked.

Landrovers are the only manufacturer, other than Hummers, to publish in there owners manuals, a depth that you can go in water.
I've seen many Jeeps leak oil alot worse with alot fewer miles on them. And your oil leaks will keep the underside from from rusting!

By Danno on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 06:16 pm: Edit

"I've seen many Jeeps leak oil alot worse with alot fewer miles on them."

you forgot to mention the fires that are caused from the oil leaks. i've personnally know 5 different people that have had to pull over on the highway and watch their wrangler go up in flames, one of which was my wife's (before she met me)

By charles on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Thanks guys, I appricate my truck even more. I didn't know some SUV can't even open their door when not on level ground. Ok, I am going to take a day off on Friday and go offroad then.

Steve, I was born when you were in HK and was grown up there. I do know HKIS, some of my friends(younger than you, of coz) went to that school. Those HK Police Series can still been seen in some older movies. I was in RHKR in Happy Valley (next to the Jockey Club). The rovers are standard transports that we use.

By han chung on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 07:57 pm: Edit

charles,
aside from all the good stuff our friends just mentioned... you really own over 50 years of history and legend and probably the most unique looking "suv" full time 4x4 vehicle in the market. where'd you find a vehicle that is your daily driver, family car, and kick ass off road. specially the disco2 bone stock... w/ etc, sls, blah blah blah. seems to be the most off road capable 4x4 vehicle in the market. enjoy your disco.

By Norm Hebert on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 09:09 am: Edit

In reply to Mike B's message to Peter. I WOULD like to read the long version but cannot get to your email info as you suggested. I have a 7 week old 2001 Disco and have been very dissapointed so far. Had to have all rotors replaced, entirely new windshield, problems with the radio speakers, rear sunroof and the cargo door leaking...all fixed for now..but what is going to go wrong next? I need to hear some more positive info right now as I am considering contacting an attorney to get my money back..from what I have read I already qualify under the lemon law. I would LOVE to be happy with my Disco but so far I'm not. Any words of wisdom or encouragement would be greatly appreciated? Thanks

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 09:21 am: Edit

Take a bunch of stock suvs off road, and do the following sort: Find a steep rutted hill, and take all your vehicles up it. At the end of the sort:

At top of hill: Land rovers, hummers, Gwagons.

At bottom of hill: Isuzus, toys, jeeps, cruisers, all fords, suzukis, etc.

At bottom of hill, upside down: More jeeps, some fords, some benzes, hondas, Chevys, Oldsies, Dodgys, kias, navigs, subs.

Still at home: Lexuses, infinities, benzes, beemers.

So, where do you wanna end up?

Dean (blowing kisses through window)

By jim on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 09:24 am: Edit

Dean you for got those Bimmers.... It should fit in the last two catagories...

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

Jim,
Thanks - I made the edit.

By peter matusov on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 09:51 am: Edit

Dean,

how come jeeps, fords, and isuzus fell into the same category?

apples to apples: jeeps go behind the land rovers, but ways ahead of any other 4x4s. until very recently, all jeeps had solid axles f&r.

or land rovers, hummers and gwagens?

- a hummer will make it to the top of the hill, provided with no trees and boulders on it.
- a gwagen, with its live axles and three locking diffs, is likely to high-center itself on a cinder block.
- for the price of either hummer or gwagen, you can buy three full-blown discos

peter

By peter matusov on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

Norm Herbert,

I suggest you copy your post on
groups.yahoo.com/group/lr-discovery ,
there was an agitated discussion of new LR trucks' reliability

peter

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit

Peter,

You are right - j**ps are not in the same category, but they will not be up the hill either, hence the classification.

As for hummers, they have 16 inches of ground clearance, and the same traction system as a disco2, making it up no problem, save for the extra 12 inches width. I read that they can make it through narrower roadways than a land rover, on two wheels! Would definitely be worth taking someone with a hummer on a pine barrens trail, to clear the bushes so the rest of us don't get striped!

When I make my millions, I'll take a hummer and gwagon as well as my disco!

Dean

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 10:47 am: Edit

Dean wrote "same traction system"

Gear hubs and Zexel Torsen LS's frt and rear are not an option on a LR!

By peter matusov on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 11:19 am: Edit

Dean,

i've seen a couple of hummers wheelin in los coyotes indian reservation (our local san diego playground). if someone other than four-wheeling crowd saw the damage they did to the trees and vegetation around, their asses would've been busted, and the place closed to off-roading.

humvees are only good for waging a war in the desert, or scoring chicks in beverly hills. if you aren't into any of these two activities, forget it.

also, i recall an article in car and driver, soon after humvees started popping up. they drove it off the side of the road, one wheel into a 2" muddy rut, and that was it. with all three glorious thorsen diffs.

by the way, a TrueTrac is almost exactly a thorsen diff, costs $420 a pop - still disco comes out ways ahead :-)

peter

By William Turner (Wturner) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 11:48 am: Edit

Only thing I admire on a Hummer is the CTIS or Central Tyre Inflation System. That would be the icing on the Disco cake. Or just a little more icing, they already have a bunch!

By ryan on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 12:16 pm: Edit

The only thing that I like about Hummer(besides getting all the looks) is its super strong axles. They're the same ones they use on the HUMVEE. I also like its drivetrain. Super strong stuff

By PerroneFord on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Oh what the hell...

I've driven a hummer off-road and have been very impressed. They are more stable than my RR, which is more stable than a disco. The hummer IS quite wide so if you wheel narrow trails, its a problem. They don't get stuck that easily despite some claims. The Zexels do a good job and with BTM (brake-throttle-modulation) you can approximate a soft-locker. They can be fit with ARB lockers or Detroits/Trutracs. The running gear is pretty stout, but they have some weak spots. Articulation is quite poor, and they don't REALLY have 16" of clearance despite what the literature says. They are VERY expensive to maintain and operate. I've backed out of buying two for that very reason.

You want a cheap and capable truck? Find an old Unimog 404 or 416. Lockers front and rear, portal axles with 16" of clearance under the diffs, on board air compressor, 24v electrics, hardtop or convertible, 38-44" tires stock, fully boxed ladder frame, more articulation than a SG stage 2, can haul over 1.5 tons, and costs less than $8k delivered to your door. But they are slow, have less frills than a series truck, and are not common. I'm buying one next year.

cheers,

-P

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 01:34 pm: Edit

series trucks have frills?

By Mike B. on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Norm:

Handmade vehicles are always a 'iffy'. Some are absolutely fantastic right from the factory and some have their problems that need to be worked out. Any yes, some never seem to be able to live up to their potential.

I believe that there is an initial break-in period for all vehicles where they have to get the bugs/defects out. When I bought my Disco, there were a few problems to be fixed (missing cargo cover, missing roof rack bars, funky driver side leather seat bottom and a noisy lifter to name a couple). But our Xterra and Honda had problems too. Fortunately, all three of our vehicles are now running fine and all were fixed under warranty.

So, other than being a royal pain in the butt and darned inconvenient, have you had to spend any money getting these things fixed? If not, count yourself lucky and consider an extended warranty when yours expires.

Oh, yes, I had two of my door seals fixed right away. One leaked air at 70+ mph and the other leaked water and rattled going over rough roads. All fixed under warranty. My hood needed adustment too. Needless to say, my Disco spent some time at the dealership initially. But after the initial problems, I've not really had any significant problems.

Windshields in Discos (speaking from experience on D1s, not D2s) are kinda tricky. Apparently, failures are not uncommon. It has to do with the way that LR designed a couple of plastic tabs that hold the windshield in place. If they are off by even a little amount, your windshield will eventually crack. I actually was at a Rally with this fella when his broke. In hindsight it was kinda cool to listen to him describe how the crack kept getting longer and longer as he drove home from the rally. The good news is that it does not seem be a chronic problem (i.e. once they fix it, the problem does not come back).

Let's face it, Land Rovers will never be as reliable as Hondas. There will always be little things to go wrong. However, when it really counts, my Rover has always come through for me. It sounds to me like yours has never let you down either.

Thanks,
Mike B.
mike@discocrazy.org

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Perrone, what Series truck were you in that had more frills then a Unimog? Unless a wiper motor on the drivers side (passenger side an option in 1965), and a heater are frills.

The big aftermarket option I have would be the seatbelts.

By PerroneFord on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Well,

The series trucks that I have been in at LEAST had rubber mats and fresh air vents!

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Ryan,

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I thought the hummer and humvee were one and the same?

Peter, what I was talking about with traction control was the braking system cutting in on a slipping wheels. At least the new models (2001) have this now, and it seems to be the same as the disco2.

Perrone - now that sounds like a good deal. Where can I get a unimog like that?

Dean

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Have you ever heard of a Honda Crossroads?

It was a Japan-only "Honda", wasn't seen in the US as a Honda.....


It was a rebadged Disco.....

By PerroneFord on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Dean,

Email me privately if you'd like more info. They can be had at many dealers all over the US.

-P

By ryan on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 02:22 am: Edit

I remember that Toyota made the Megacruiser. Which was a re-badged Hummer. I thought that it looked a lot better than the Hummer. It also had four wheel steering.


Leslie,
Do you have any pics of the Honda Disco? Did it have the same drivetrain as the Disco?

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 02:44 am: Edit

Ryan -either LRM or LRW did an article a couple months agon on the Honda Disco - it was a full fledged Disco, just with Honda badging.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 04:09 am: Edit

Ryan,

Bill's pegged it. I'd seen it in a Disco coffeee-table book before, but the article (don't remember which mag) covered it very well. It was a Disco, w/ a "H" on it in place of the green oval...

Weren't many of them, only a couple of thousand (maybe 2800 or so). The regular LR Disco outsold it by a big margin, so it was dropped, if I remember right.

-L

By peter matusov on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 04:49 am: Edit

actually, the last hype is Pinzgauers.
http://www.pinzgauer.com/

Mogs are just way too big.
Perrone likes them 'cause of his landscape

peter

By PerroneFord on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 05:16 am: Edit

Landscape!

Pinzgauers are pretty nice, I got in one last year at the SAE. They are REALLY ugly though, and don't flex up like a Mog.

Mogs are only tall, they aren't much wider than a RR (couple inches) and the length is shorter than the hummer.

And whoever mentioned the Toyota MegaCruiser being a re-badged hummer is way off the mark. The megacruiser was only 2wd!

-P

By Ron on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 05:18 am: Edit

Mogs are just way too big

They made mogs with 63in wheelbases at one point.

Image a really, really, bad ass golf cart and you get the picture.

Ron

By lynden on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 05:56 am: Edit

Charles,
Better yet, ask your friends what is so good about their rig and ours has it. 7.5 inches of clearance... we have more, good sightlines... ours are better, full leather... got it, traction control... you've got it (most of us others have locking diff), and boxed frame construciton... only us. You get the picture. Our vehicle is a rig to be taken off road, then driven to the country club. It is the ONLY vehicle you can do this in. You might drive your land cruiser to the country club, but you better stop off at home to get the old F-250 to go off roading.
One last thing, I'm no snob but I believe you have to drive a signature vehicle. One that when your friend sees it driving he knows who's in there. Frankly, jeeps, toyota's, anything else are NOT signature vehicles. You see so many on the road that no one gives a damn for them. This is how I would respond, or just ask them to go off roading... that should quiet them down.
Lynden

By Danno on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 06:10 am: Edit

how many of you valet park your modified disco's?
i find it amusing when i saw my lifted, scratched up, un-washed disco parked in a row right behind a Lambo and Ferrari. then seeing that the valet counldn't get into the disco because he didn't know the secret to getting into a rover with sticky door handles

By William Turner (Wturner) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 06:17 am: Edit

Ask your friends why their suv's weren't the first motor vehicle that over 40% of the worlds population ever saw.

Ask them if 76% of their suv's ever built are still hard at work (keep in mind that Land Rovers have been built since 194*).

Ask them why there suv's dont have the highest return customer rate of any vehicle ever (i.e. 98% of the people that buy Land Rovers come back an buy another).

All can be said true for LAND ROVER.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 07:24 am: Edit

Development began in '47, debut in May of 1948.

-L

By peter matusov on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 07:46 am: Edit

been reading lr promos, have you, Leslie?

hehehe

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 07:49 am: Edit

Not anytime recently....

I fell in love w/ Rovers before I ever had an FSJ, just thought I couldn't afford them at the time.

Now I KNOW that I can't afford 'em....

-L

By peter matusov on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 07:56 am: Edit

so do i. and i have two of them, and have no plans of selling the FSJ, too!

must have something to with earth sciences...

peter

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 08:02 am: Edit

They do go hand-in-hand....



-L

By PerroneFord on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit

Thought some of you might enjoy seeing the pics of Unimogs at the Rocky Mountain Moggers club page.

There is even a pic there of the tiny "golf cart" unimog.

http://home.att.net/~rldp/unimogs.htm

-P

By lynden on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 11:01 am: Edit

What the hell is going on in UT, CO, and WY that they have that many mogs??? There appears to be more mogs than disco's in that neck of the woods. I imagine they're a pretty tight knit group since they have such rare vehicles. Pretty cool to see.
Lynden

By Andrew Vick (Afv) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

On another note, I never really thought about it, but there's probably 4 Pinzgauer's within a 5 block radius of my house in Denver city limits.

By Scott H on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Hey what about LR Forward Control?

I'm distraught, everyone on the LR board wants a Mercedes and a Steyr. Whats the world comming to?

tis tragic, simply tragic....hehehe

Scott H

By Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Scott, you beat me to it. Get a FC.

By lynden on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Oh... I don't want a mog!!! They look about as fun as an open casket funeral. I don't like my car having less creature comforts than my tent. Do not confuse me w/ others on the board who have merc envy. I am more than satisfied w/ my Rover!
Lynden

By PerroneFord on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 02:22 pm: Edit

Ok,

Try this one...

http://www.maximog.com

-P

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 02:58 pm: Edit

I've seen that one before...that's a hell of a tent.

By MA on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 04:32 pm: Edit

About that door opening thing, it is true. I always ramp up some obstacle and open the door to check out the flex. I know one of my friends with a K5 blazer did the same and his driver door wouldn't open.

By Chuck on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 03:52 am: Edit

Well, I would just like to say that you have me convinced. I've been lingering(sp?) around here trying to learn as much as I can before I buy a disco. I must say that you guys really love your LRs and that goes a long way in my book. I'm looking forward to officially joining your ranks!!

Chuck

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 04:21 am: Edit

That Maximog:

Basic Specifications
Dimensions: 245" Long 79" Wide 118" High
MPG highway average: 9.5
Fuel Capacity: 123 Gallons (dual tanks)
Driving range: 1000 miles highway
Tire size: 203SR20 with run-flat inserts
Weight: 13,240lbs unloaded at full fluid capacity
Wheelbase: 109 inches

Ok, did you get that weight? That's three discos! I wonder how much they cost? But it looks damnnnnnnnn good

By ryan on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 04:50 am: Edit

Officially it has DUBS.
hmmm...I haven't seen it on any rap videos.

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Interesting that it weighs nearly three times more, but is only 30% less efficient!

By mike holland on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 09:06 am: Edit

its funny to see all the anymosity towards jeeps. I have a 94 disco and a 99 jeep wrangler. I love them both. As a professional landrover mechanic I know a great deal about the rovers and as a jeep owner i know quite a bit about them as well. Is the jeep built as heavy as a landrover? No. is it a very capable vehicle? Yes. I do most of my wheeling in the jeep and apply all the techniques taught to me by landrovers driving instructors. I have been very happy with its performance and the cost of aftermarket parts. To date i have had no equipment failures on it in 60k miles. I am selling the jeep to get a 4.0 range rover because I love rovers but for the three years I had the jeep it was a great vehicle with very low maintenance expenses and a great resale value which will help finance my rover addiction. It always gives me pause for thought when people speak badly about one product to make another look better. Remember as slow as possible as fast as neccasary!

By MA on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

Wow...I have a lot more appreciation for my Disco(or any Land Rover)now. I feel inspired to write to Four Wheeler mag or some other anti-Land Rover mag.

By gil on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 10:14 am: Edit

mike, you got a particular 4.0 that you are looking at?

By lynden on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 05:40 am: Edit

Mike, I don't include the Wrangler in my book as being a bad vehicle. Now the cherokee and grand cherokee aren't made to continually off road as is a rover. Some things can be said for them though, parts are very cheap, they can probably go almost anywhere a rover can go... the thing is that they are a trow away car. Drive them off road for very long and they'll rattle enough to drive you crazy. They're not bad rigs... but I wouldn't stand to have a jeep driver talk bad about my rover. I think that's what this thread is about. The guy who started it was getting flack from guys at work. I pointed out strengths of our vehicle and weaknesses of other.
Lynden

By peter matusov on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 05:51 am: Edit

Mike,

i've been getting some flak on rover boards for speaking up for a jeep - i have a 79 jeep cherokee, which is my ultimate off-road warrior. no matter what i do to my disco and rangie, they will not match the off-roadability of the big jeep (which is largely stock, with the exception of 3" lift an 33" tires). now, when it comes to off-roading somewhere 1000 miles away, jeep's better to stay in the garage... 8.5mpg...

the little cherokees (not the grand cherokees) are very easy to modify, and very good off-roaders. the main problem with them is that the body flexes alarmingly too much - like i mentioned, one wheel on the curb and the liftgate wouldn't open.

peter