By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 03:12 am: Edit

Not an attack on the product because I still like it - but it does break.

Broke my 3/8" this weekend at the Middy as did Frank Avent. Both cases were a bit extreme - mine broke at the top of an extreme pull (about 55-60 deg slope) (admittedly an unnecessary pull BTW) and Franks' broke just due to the controller getting stuck and pulling the hook into the fairlead.

Anyway - it did work as advertised - rope just dropped to the ground with no recoil and to do a field repair a clove hitch knot tied in it worked fine even with a 12K winch (though I will resplice it properly)

Another interesting side note - while winching someone else out of the river - his tow point gave way and even though there was his tow point and a 3/4" shackle on the end of the winch line - it still just dropped right down with no recoil when the tow point broke.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 03:29 am: Edit

I was thinking about getting an Amsteel line when I get a winch. Now I know I'm getting one. Sounds like it did it's job very well. I really like hearing that when it broke it didn't whip around..

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 04:41 am: Edit

Bill,

Any thoughts on why it broke? Repeated use, fatigue, or perhaps heat? I know there are issues with the Amsteel being subjected to heat buildup from the winch.

I'm also glad to hear that it worked as advertised. I know several people running this line now and this is about the 5th report I've seen that it works as advertised. VERY comforting.

-P

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 05:11 am: Edit

In my case - I think I just exceeded the ropes capacity in a somewhat extreme pull. My truck was to the top of the slope and the front wheels actually crested it, but then the winch and rope had to work to pull the remainder of the truck up - in effect almost had to levitate the rear upwards - with the full weight of the Disco hanging on it and then making the rope work to lever the rear end up was just too much.

This is all theory of course - hastily figured out while pointing at the sky with my ass end in the river

The rope is fairly new and it broke only about 6 ft from the hook and is nylon sleeved on the end, so heat and abrasion didn't really enter into the equation. Most likely 3/8" wire rope would have broken also in the same situation - so I'm putting it down to live and learn

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 06:38 am: Edit

bill what brand of winch were you useing?

your descrptiption doesn't sound all that extreem to me ...

i would think the winch should stall before the rope breaks. bid you have a pully working in there too?

thanks
rob

By John on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 06:46 am: Edit

It was that extreeem...he was on close to a 80 degree slope at the very top so the rope was trying to pull his rig from that angle over the top having to virtualy lift his rear. Earlier a Rangie winching a series up at the same point was pulled into the river by the series when the hand brake broke on the rangie from that same extreme angle...nose to nose going down and back into the river down the ski slope...fortunately no injury and some just some sheet metal as the series was trying to back out of the way but they were connected by double winches to each other.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 06:58 am: Edit

80%%d damn, , i would suspect the car would flip end to end if that rope broke.. i guess you had to be there.

so i take it you had the engine off so it wasnt being starved of oil.. this is why you couldn't help it along with some gas pedal?

yeah... guess i had to be there.
rd

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:05 am: Edit

I was using the Masterpull brand - it was pretty steep - scary enough to go down.

Engine was running and I was in drive, but the traction was an absolute 0

River bed was kind of soft and silty - so I stuck in backwards

On a similar slope a D90 almost did an "endo" going down because he was on the brakes instead of the gas as he hit the bottom

By gp (Garrett) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:11 am: Edit

yeah i can vouch for the nastiness of the slope too. as the weekend went on it got worse as trucks were wearing away the bottom of the slope. i did not have a guage on my truck, but all i can say it was steep and doing it 3 times was plenty for me to back off for the 4th. also did not need bill and the rest to stay in the water longer after they spent a good long time getting the yellow RR out.
we were lucky to be able to stand from distance and wait til the frenchman came with the big ass disco to pull him back off that rock.

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:18 am: Edit

Ahhhhhh , it was "Extreme" , that explains it all. You got that right Rob ? Sounds like a bit of a Circus....


Kyle

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:21 am: Edit

Going down that slope, you felt like you had to put your feet on the dash....

The killer would have been if you hit the brakes, it could have very easily done an endo....

Smart move was to have a tow strap to a rig on top to keep the back from getting down ahead of the nose.

'Course, the last Rover on top had to get down on it's own....


What was cool, was seeing the '49 Series I go down that bank...... yeah!!

-L

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:21 am: Edit

Come on now - I already said it was an unnecessary pull - just something to do and learn not to do - mainly I just wanted to let people know about how the Amsteel worked out

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:26 am: Edit

I gotya about the rope Bill , the point that needs to be made here is that it doesnt hold up to its rating. Whats the rating on that 3/8 yarn ? Whats the stall rating on the winch you have?
I actually like the Circus stories... I know there are more coming... Threre is always more.....lol

Kyle

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 07:57 am: Edit

The 3/8" Masterpull is rated at 17,500 lbs (breaking strength?) - the winch is a Warn M12K - someone else out there probably knows the stall rating better than I...

Still - it broke doing something that did not really need doing and I still was able to tie a simple clove hitch and pull the rest of the day. I'm not saying whether the Masterpull broke before or at its rated capacity - who knows - too many other factors involved than just the winch rating to guess.

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:11 am: Edit

Hmmm , denial ? Its rating is over 20K . Your winch pulled you that far right? It was the winches force that broke the yarn right? Or was there some jumping and snatching going on ? Some good load spikes could put it over its rating if there was some other foolishness going on...

Kyle

By Michel on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:13 am: Edit

That's what Im thinking also, the 3/8 master pull is rated at 17.5K, your winch a bit less I would think, but Im sure the pull was no more that maybe 6K and it broke, damn.

Michel

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:16 am: Edit

hmm, and what about heat... amsteel isnt supposed to be on a warn 12k..

this is all so interesting...

rd

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:22 am: Edit

No - no denial - just seems to me like there are more forces involved with the weight of the truck hanging on it, the winch pulling, and then the levering force of trying to pull the rear end somewhat horizontal before being able to pull it over the edge. I'm not a mathmetician, but it seems like there would be other forces that came to play.

Remember -I posted that you can break the "yarn" - not that you can't - so I'm not trying to defend anything.


As another side note - you gotta love the Disco - it fell about 10 feet and landed on the bumper/receiver hitch and the only damage was a broken turn signal lense - even the bulb was still OK. I'd like to see the same happen to some other make......

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:25 am: Edit

Rob - note post above - the line broke about 6 ft from the hook so heat is not a factor - heat concentrates at the drum, but not 5 layers out.

By Milan on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:44 am: Edit

Do you have pictures of the broken rope? I'd like to see it. Mine broke due to the heat generated by the planetary Warn.

You say, yours broke 6 feet from the hook. How much rope was spooled out at the time?

Thanks,
Milan

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:45 am: Edit

thanks billy

just trying to figure out if the yarn is anygood. i dont want anythinking breaking on me,. i'd rather have my winch stall... rolling out of controll backward is not my idea of fun

rd

By John on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:54 am: Edit

Rob, with the break at 6' from the end...a previous nick in the line could have let it all go at once, esp with the load he had on it at the top. I wouldnt judge the line on this one incident, but this break is knowledge to begin forming a long term opinion. His line was at a right angle about when it broke over the bank with his truck literally hanging there. Without the winch stalling it may have been a nick or cut in the line from previous use.

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 08:58 am: Edit

Bill I got what you are saying about the ass end hanging and compounding the strain. But the winch pulled you there so thats your guage on how much strain was on it. If it was capable of pulling you into that spot then you werent beyond the rated pull of the winch. In turn , you werent beyond the rating of the yarn either. I am also with Michel in saying that the 12K warn wasnt delivering 12K of force. That makes the scenario even worse. The reason I say all this is because very few that I have seen with the yarn actually put some good hard pulls on it. Out in the rocks it doesnt get strained nearly as much as it does here in the muck and mire..

Kyle

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:04 am: Edit

Thanks - I'm definitely not here as a representative of Masterpull - still like the safety aspect, but wish the situation hadn't been so "not normal" because it would have been easier to form a like/don't like opinion.

John's got a good point - the line had been used a bunch that day and a nick could have caused the break. So, the jury is still out - I'll resplice this line and see what happens in the future.

And Rob - you're 100% right - it sucked to fall backwards!

Milan - I already cut out the broken ends and gave them to Masterpulls' on-site distributor for Virginia (Overland Adventures) - he (Mike McCaig) hadn't seen one break either.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:09 am: Edit

exactly john,,, i am using this as just a little more knowledge to make a good descision.. only problem was iwasnt there to see how it all went down, thats why i'm askign all these questions.

i'd love for the yarn to be something i feel comfortablke useing, it's so light and it floats ... and that is grerat. but if i dont have confidence in my geear i'm wont be concentrating on the task at hand... instead i'll be worrying about the brerakage potential. and in tern probably cause myself more harm that good.

this same thing is aplied to rockclimbing. if your gear aint good you are afraid to fall. if it's bomber then you can climb with confidence.

rd

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:10 am: Edit

Kyle - I think I see what you mean - maybe because I was in the situation I'm not the most objective one

There was no bouncing, it was just a hard steady pull until it snapped. Though if the winch stalled at the point that the ass end of the Disco was trying to be pulled horizontal - could that induce more force in that instant beyond that of what a supposed 12K winch puts out?? Any thoughts

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:10 am: Edit

Ahhh , that clears a few things up....

Kyle

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:13 am: Edit

Naaaa , unless like I said there was some help from the wheels that got it jerking and snatching. If it was just a smooth pull up until the time of failure then its really all on what the winch can deliver. Also , the outer sheath is just that , a sheath or covering. If it was nicked seems to me you would have seen it right there on the end that you are working with when you use it. A 17K rated hunk of yarn would have to get a pretty fair injury to snap under that winches force , even if it was delivering the whole 12K.

Kyle

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:20 am: Edit

There was some abrasion of the last 6 feet of course - but nothing obvious. The Masterpull is really all sheath - it is a tubular weave - there is no inner line. Matter of fact, when you splice it the remaining tail gets tucked back down inside the tubular center for about 6-8"

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:33 am: Edit

Yes , like some chineese finger handcuffs. Hmmmm , maybe I change the name of that stuff.... I have played with it some and purposly tried to get some abrasion action going as it was hanging over the "Rock pile" in Moab. It semed to take that just fine and it had a fair amount of strain on it. Thats why I aint goin with the nicked rope theory...seems it would have been obvious to you had it been cut that much.

Kyle

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit

The problem that I see with the plastic winch cable is that everything is great in theory. The problem is when you take the cable and test it in the real world. When they test the cable everything is perfect, the line is new, etc. The problem is in the way the polymer gains its strength. It's chemical nature is pretty simple; they take ultra high molecular weight polyethylene and stretch it so that the polymer chain is in a line rather than a jumble. The linear nature gives it its strength. To break it you have to break the chemical bond.
The problem is that I believe that when the winch cable heats up things might happen to the polymer that weren't anticipated. My guess is that a couple things could happen- the polymer chain might be shortened or the structure might change. Even though I'm in the plastics industry, I'd rather have a steel cable.

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:03 am: Edit

Something else to think about. Since the yarn is cylindrical that would mean that you are straining one side more then the other when you bend it. Much more so because it doesnt stretch . Since it doesnt stretch at all when you bend it one side of the rope will be taking all the pull. Maybe thats your culprit....

Kyle

By gp (Garrett) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:12 am: Edit

here is a pic of the area we are talking about. i had to fiddle with the pic to make it a little brighter. not sure if you can see it once i post though. the climb we are talking about is to the left and where the people are standing.

of course this pic will not do it justice, but nevertheless here it is.

By Moe (Moe) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:13 am: Edit

>it is a tubular weave - there is no inner line.

Are you sure about this Bill? The inner line typically holds the weight and the outer sheath protects.

A problem with rope is that the inner line can be seriously damaged without any visible damage to the outer sheath. Crushing the rope will do this and if repeated or serious enough, flat spots will develop and the rope weakens.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit

moe, thats with a typical "kernmantle"

kern meaning core and mantel meaning sheeth, i think it's german.


the amsteel yarn is all sheath or "mantle".

aka chinese finger trap.

rd

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:35 am: Edit

Yes Rob , so it is good for something after all... You ever try to get your fingers out of one of those bastards? Very affective


Kyle

By Cartner on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:39 am: Edit

Is this the nylon/synthetic line that was being sold at MAR this past weekend? I was there and watched the preceeding, and that WAS one hell of a steep bank to fall back from...I almost bought that line this weekend too, actually, but wasn't sure about it...

By Moe (Moe) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:41 am: Edit

>the amsteel yarn is all sheath or "mantle".

More cause for concern. One solid nick and whole lot explodes.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:46 am: Edit

kyle, it still may have it's uses... i plan on buying a 50ft extension to fuck around with. i can tell you now it would not be used in any "touchy" situations.

just when i pull your ass out...

rd

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:12 am: Edit

lol , you see that happenin Roberto ?

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:33 am: Edit

naaa, you're too proud to let anyone else go first...

By Al Hang (Alhang) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:35 am: Edit

hehe, I remember that area. it wasn't that bad last year, i mean it's steep and you do have nothing ther e but mud. but certainly not death defying, winch line braking action.

-al

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:37 am: Edit

lol Rob , who was behind me on ET down at the cove ?

Kyle

By John on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:43 am: Edit

Al, these are new trails you havent seen, just built and used first time this year....

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:47 am: Edit

well i believe i was in front when i did the trail in reverse, then you made me get out of the way so you didn't loose face in front of the boyz...

rd

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:47 am: Edit

Ahhh , yes , you are correct....lol , and think there are pics to prove that you did indeed back into the trail... my bad...

Kyle

By John on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

Bill, dont you have an event coming up soon?

By Al Hang (Alhang) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 12:11 pm: Edit

" Al, these are new trails you havent seen, just built and used first time this year...."


damn.. wish i could've gone

By John on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 12:21 pm: Edit

I looked for any of you guys as I thought some were going...There was some fun wheeling...you would have enjoyed, not just pure mud as before.Trails were marked good, no 2 way traffic.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 01:57 pm: Edit

John - yep, we've got the second running of our trials course coming up Nov. 3rd (Saturday) - no mud, but plenty of trees and rocks.

Hope you can make it - I'll fax you some info

Bill

By Milan on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 03:35 pm: Edit

"I have played with it some and purposly tried to get some abrasion action going as it was hanging over the "Rock pile" in Moab. It semed to take that just fine and it had a fair amount of strain on it. Thats why I aint goin with the nicked rope theory..."

Hmmm, I was able to abrade it by just shuffling it on pavement when I was putting it on. Nothing serious but it did make it fuzzy in few places. No weight on it whatsoever.

"...seems it would have been obvious to you had it been cut that much."

Yet I agree with this.

"Something else to think about. Since the yarn is cylindrical that would mean that you are straining one side more then the other when you bend it. Much more so because it doesnt stretch . Since it doesnt stretch at all when you bend it one side of the rope will be taking all the pull. Maybe thats your culprit...."

Kyle, you sure know how to create some smoke and mirrors. ;) This is all theroy I'm sure as are my speculations - the weave distributes the load more evenly than the spiral wound steel cable. BTW, isn't the steel cable cylindrical in nature as well? Yet, I'd think steel is less forgiving to bending than that plastic stuff.

By Kyle on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Smoke and mirrors? I just think things arent quite so easy when you consider applying 12 thousand pounds of force to a piece of plastic.
Now about the cables. I have seen many types of wire rope and the variety is pretty broad. To answer your question , yes , the cheaper cable is a cylinder of sorts. Thats also the cable that I have heard and seen more failures with. That cable is typically real stiff and of coarse strands.The better cables have a core inside and have multiple braid types inside and out. A nightmare to splice or braid if you have to but much stronger. They are also very pliable and limp. Probably the best I have seen was some stainless aircraft cable but I havnt seen a source for it in 3/8. That might cost you a fortune..


Kyle

By Scott Bowden (Scott_Bowden) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 02:53 am: Edit

I believe the bending of the rope theory. We tried to pull a swb series III backwards by running the rope back under the vehicle. It pulled for a little while then the rope broke. The rope broke at the roller fairlead. There was a melted or smeared plastic residue on the fairlead. Either the fairlead didn't roll under the load or the rope broke by bending over the roller. The melted residue on the roller leads me to believe excessive heat is generated by bending and pulling, thus weakening the rope. The winch was not close to stalling.

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:25 am: Edit

The other thing I can think of is that you did get some grip with the wheels and the truck jumped forward and then back which shock loaded the yarn, which it does not like I am told.

Ron

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Or could it have been SABOTAGE?

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 02:37 pm: Edit

YEah Ron , thats what I was talking about earlier. In that scenario the shock loading would be pretty damn high. He says there was no bucking bronco action going on though sothat takes us back to the rope being bent at the farilead. If its bent that sharply at the fairlead then anything last the fairlead is just relying on hapf of the rope to get the job done. That seems the most feasable yet.

Kyle

By gp (Garrett) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit

i am with rob on this one and i am not talking about the beastie boys song. i actually saw little virginia leprechauns running around the area at night wheelding swiss army knives. they even took my magical mud flaps too!!!

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

Yes the leprechauns took two more of our mud flaps as well, and sliced the last remaining one with their sword.

Ron

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Yes there is only one sword. They are so small the troop of them gets together to wield the one sword they have.

Ron

By pk on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Not any Leprechauns!

Face it, Barbie is pissed about loosing so much of her hair to make that yarn shit. She was tip toeing around camp that night with some finger nail clippers in her little plastic hand and malice in her cold plastic heart. I heard GI Joe is way pissed now that clear evidence has been presented that generations of his ancestors were melted down and recycled into Master Pull winch line.

Imagine... trusting your hole enchilada to some yarn that is worthless if the cuticle scissors get too close!

pk

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 03:40 pm: Edit

lol , now thats the shit I am talking about.... Finger nail clippers can ruin your whole day. Or , a nice hot Marlboro...

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:05 pm: Edit

or maybe a bird with really acidic poop

rd

By John on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:19 pm: Edit

What about Franks breaking his line....pulling the hook into the fairlead shoud have stalled a 9500 lb winch befors the 17,000 rated line broke...whick gets back I guess to the line bending around the eye of the hook to accentuate weakening the line. But we pull on the eye when we are winching in a straight line...why did his break?

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Well John , its plastic.....


Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Yet what is interesting is that the same M12000 that broke the line on a single pull also was able to stall on a double pull (24,000lbs) and not break the same line later in the trip.

However, based on my electric winch experence over the weekend I might be chucking all that crap out the window. See post.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Thats not applying more force to the two strands Ron , its actually lessening it. Maybe he should just hook to some thing stationary with the truck anchored and hit the button , see what the hell happens. Maybe you can break that single strand every time before a stall....


Kyle

By John on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Stalled on a 6,000 pull?

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Ya lost me...


kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Thats not applying more force to the two strands Ron , its actually
lessening it.

Should be the same 12k per strand and being way further out (double line) there would be more force that with 6ft left out.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Naaa , I think you would get less force on each. The force comes through the gearing of the block and is applied to the object being pulled...the winch is still only capable of pulling 12K and now you have two strands taking the heat.


Kyle

By John on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:10 pm: Edit

A double line pull(using a pulley) reduces the pull by 1/2...or am I mis-understanding you..

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Double the line doubles the force on the oject being pulled. THe winch its self is still just capable of generating its same pull. The pully reduces the strain on the winch by half...

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:14 pm: Edit

The pully reduces the
strain on the winch by half...

But if it stalls it is still 12k stall.

So 24k on the RR being pulled, 12k on all the line

In theory . . .

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Yeah , I got what you are saying ron and it seems that if the winch could pull 12K and you had it doubled you would be putting that much on both lines. Thats only if you are applying that much. If its a 6K pull both ropes have very little strain , much less then an 8K single line. You getting me? What I am saying is that on his second pull he may have been pulling less or had a different amount of wraps on the drum therefore applying less force to the two ropes.

Kyle

By John on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

I am assuming he was pulling himself with a snatch block, and if so, the energy needed to pull the weight is reduced by 1/2...
Like picking up 200 lbs with a rope, take 200 lbs pull. Put a single pully on the rope, only take 100 lbs. 2 pulleys,50 lbs.

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:25 pm: Edit

on his second pull he may have been pulling less
or had a different amount of wraps on the drum therefore applying less
force to the two ropes.

He was winching someone else and the winch stalled so that means that it was maxed out with less on the drum . . . ergo harder pull no matter how you slice it.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:36 pm: Edit

More or less John that is what I am saying. But what Ron says here is true as well . If it stalled with less on the drum then the rope should have been seeing the full on force of the winch. Was the winch hot? Had its power been reduced by a long pull ? Allot of things factor in I suppose....


Kyle

By John on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:43 pm: Edit

If he was on his 4th layer down from full he has only reduced his pull rate by 2500 lbs...but the snatch block reduction still comes into play...has to have been an over heated solinoid.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 02:58 am: Edit

Sorry - was out of the office yesterday - just for more info - on the second pull almost all 120ft was out - there was only 1/2 of the first layer left on the drum and it was doubled through a pulley block.

Winch didn't really stall, but it was coming close - I was tied to another truck, but both were getting pulled into the water and the RR wasn't going anywhere, so we stopped pulling before a stall happened. Winch motor and gearbox were not notticeably hot either.

Another twist is that that pull happened with a clove hitch knot tied and a knot is supposed to reduce a ropes working capacity by 50% (general rule of thumb I'm told) - not sure how that factors into it, but figured I'd fuel the fire a bit