By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Ok,

I was wondering if ANYONE knows ANYTHING about mounting a crank driven winch on a Disco. RR had an optional capstan crank driven winch so it has to be doable. Here is what I am thinking:

Custom mill a dog for the crank or modify the superwinch capstan dog for a V8

Modify Koenig crank driven front winch drive shaft to suit length.

Winch all day and not break anything.

Anyone?

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Did the poodle let you down Ron ? I smell another MAR story here...

Kyle

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 04:30 pm: Edit

David and I actually talked about that this weekend, the RR version... (someone was looking at his Series captsans and wondering if they could get it onto a Disco...).

My suggestion would be to start w/ the RR version....


IMHO...

-L

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:03 pm: Edit

The poodle is a flaming POS! Motor has an internal short somehwhere. Could not figure out the issue in time to get it fixed for the rally so we had a 113 lbs boat anchor. But i can't say anything bad as it is not mine. Stupidwinch is sending us a new motor so we are told but that means I have to take the Bumper and poodle off. I want to convert to hydraulic or get a high output electric motor (I can post the link if anyone wants) Alyssa better not read this as I am in hot water for log humping and breaking shit already and not being able to fix the poodle.

So is the warn XD9000i I had on the series, or rather the series battery/alternator sucked, the winch was fine. That will teach me to wait to install the koenig.

So was the M8000 warn on a friends RR.

So was the other (damn near new) warn XD9000i on a friend truck.

Four electric winches, four failures, and that is not counting Bill's broken line.

POS all.

Koenig rules

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:05 pm: Edit

and don't give me any RE crap Kyle.

It will break too or the alternator will go. Everything I touch I break and its not like I have crap.


So who think the PTO crank mount is a good idea?

The capstan won't do anything. However, if you could use the principal to drive a Koenig that would be the cats pajamas

By Cartner on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:06 pm: Edit

That was me looking for it on a Disco, only jokingly, but I suppose it would work if you can figure out how, I'd like to know!

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:08 pm: Edit

LOL , Ron , I been tellin ya all that you learned at mar for awhile now havnt I ?

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:12 pm: Edit

That electrics suck.

I knew that before.

Just HOW MUCH they suck. Man. At this rate I am thinking about tossing them all.

Shit even that MM winch bit the big one on your trip right.

I dunno. Koenig on the front is the way to go, just make sure you disengage it before driving off.

Ron

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Cartner,

The capastan will bolt right up.

If you go to:

www.roversdownsouth.com

I think they have one for a RR for sale.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:15 pm: Edit

LOL , yes , all of them suck , but I am sticking with the old RE... He doesnt seem to break....

Kyle

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Oh , and I have winched all day and not broken anything... technique has much to do with the life of the winch as well Ron....

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:19 pm: Edit

I don't know man. The husky did not have shit done to it wrong and was used little. The XD9000i was nearly new.

I was always taught that you double line and don't get the thing hot by using it much.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Well , I dont know about doubling the line and I am not sure you can get a damn thing done at all without getting a planetary warm.. So did you pull the poodle motor? Take a peek? I would like to see the failure. The straps going to the brushes are ussually just bonded on the arm post by solder or some such. Its pure crap. It will just fall off inside the motor and you get nuthin...

Kyle

By Al Hang (Alhang) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Ron, why don't you get the RE 10 for 799 and call it a day? It works, don't break, nothing really custom to make, I imagine a custom Koenig would be expensive right?

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:35 pm: Edit

have not pull the motor, but I have pics plenty of crap to throw out the window for ya.

when I get a chance I will pull the whole thing. Would be much easier if it were an 8274.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:38 pm: Edit

I hear you , my hobby seems to be wrestling those heavy worm driven bastards. Just stay clear of the little warns.......lol.... be afraid,,,,very afraid...


Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Ron, why don't you get the RE 10 for 799 and call it a day?

Because it will still break. Ain't nothing special about an RE v a husky. The motor is what sucks and the ramsey motor is cheap shit compared to stupidwinch. The stupidwinch rep said he had never seen a husky motor fail and that it was not the solinoid which made me feel better.

No, I want something mounted to the crank or T-case

I just bought a second koenig so i will see what I can see. Cost me about 5 bills to my door.

It ain't much custom stuff. Just a dog on the crank and a shaft. when you look at old winches compared to new ones you see how vastly inferior the new stuff is.

Ron

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:42 pm: Edit

my hobby seems to be wrestling those heavy worm driven bastards

I might try it this weekend if I can find some help. The SG is mounted pretty good and the whole thing is probably 250lbs or so.

I still think the 8274 ain't bad. But the little flamers will get ya

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Ahhh , cheap shit compared ? lol , but the poor mistreated ramsey keeps going. How many really old Huskies you see still running ? Look around and check out the old REs still running...
Now about that REP for stupidwinch , doesnt he get payed to say that? Actually , he probably doesnt own one so he can say in all honesty that he personally hasnt seen one fail...

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:46 pm: Edit

The motor is cheap shit kyle. The only reason it survives is it is so damn slow it does not build up any heat.

There are old huskys around but they have not been made as long as 8274s, and some old REs around but the old winches I see are 8274s.

Stupidwinch rep. I dunno man. Never heard of a husky biting it until the one on the disco. Only seen a couple REs eat shit.

I am just bitter because I break so much stuff.

Ron

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:56 pm: Edit

lol , yes , the RE uses just a plain jane prestolite motor. The key with all electrics is not to strain them. Yep , I feel certain it keeps living cause its so slow. Its so slow cause of the gearing . Good low gearing makes all kinds of things live longer... Fords use the prestolite motor for starters and man , I love a ford...


Kyle

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Ron-

You will come over to the dark side sooner or later. If you are doing some serious winching and don't want to worry about shorts, overheating, etc. just take the plunge and get a Milemarker.

The winch is completely unimpressive. It doesn't make any noise, its slow, but it will always get you out.

By Tate on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Man, Ron, after reading this, I'll think twice before I have you pull me out next time.... :-)

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Ya but the guy with the 110 broke the MM mount, and my other buddy with a 110 MM would not work either. Add that to the fact my PS pumps on all my rovers are on the way out . . . no way.

Maybe I would go for the Maxidrive 8274 hydraulic PTO pump converion if I had the $$$$. 6000lbs of pull at idle speed of 80ft per minute and so much force it can sheer the spur gears in the winch

ahhhhhhhhhh.

I could get used to that.

Ron

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Tate,

Thanks for the jump man

We would have been fine if I had used the strap to begin with and not messed with the f***in winch.

Ron

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:07 pm: Edit

The MM puts less strain on the PS pump than steering. Rather than putting variable loads on the pump, its a constant load. So I don't know what the worries are about.

If you're worried still, get the PTO setup for the MM. Just make sure the winch is mounted well.

By Ron on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:10 pm: Edit

So I don't know what the worries are about.

The pump is marginal now. More use (fluid boiling) and it will bite the big one I just know it will .

The PTO set up is good but I don't have that kinda $$$$ nor do I want to break the mount.

Ron

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:11 pm: Edit

MM

non-MM

capstan

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:15 pm: Edit

My whole point is that running the winch is less abuse on the pump & fluid than steering is. After about five minutes of winching the other day, I put my hand on the winch motor just to check, and its only slightly warm.

You could get a oil cooler, but it would probably be unnecessary.

By Michel on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Ron, the MM did not fail, the mounting failed and ripped the winch right off, that being said, the winch still works. Fucking thing is built OK. And it will pull, and it will pull at any speed, with the proper hydraulics. I've had it now for 3 seasons and it's been we'll used and still going strong.

Land Rover sells a capstan winch, driven off the PTO also, a budy just got one for his 110. Impressive looking thing, but more expensive than my setup, and we'll, it's a fringen capstan, so a pain in the ass to use. Unfortunaly the guy's a poser, so I'll never know how we'll it lasts and truly good/reliable it is, but you can buy it off the shelf.

Michel

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 07:36 pm: Edit

The mile marker is a decent winch I think from what I got to see of it in action. What I dont like are its side affects. They are there if you are using the PS pump or the PTO. It surely pulls hard but I aint sure the little winch can handle all it can be fed. Its true that it was the housing that failed on Michels and some different mounting should take care of that. But , what about the fluid loss on the pissing bastard when it blows a line ? You gonna carry spare fluid just incase? In the end its still just a little planetary winch. If you take it apart and look at its guts there isnt much there.
The poodle also pulls pretty nice and I still rank it better then most planetary options out there (Aside from the big warns)but its construction leaves something to be desired as well. The bottom line is that its not built well. I dont care who wants to argue it. It can have the best motor and gear box in the world and still be substandard. Any spool of any sort that takes a big load on it needs to be supported properly the husky nor the mile marker have this support. Sure we see allot of these winches in action around the globe but we dont really get to see how they are used (If they are used at all) The fact is that the guys out west dont punnish a winch like it gets punnished here in the East. So rule them out in your comparisons. Just use what you see here or in similar enviroments.Also come to grips with the fact that ratings on winches are bullshit. Thats why I always recommend a very big winch. What Ron saw at the MAR is not an uncommon ocurrance. The little smoker winches burn up when the going gets tough.....The lesson here is that there is no such thing as having a winch too big. Also that a slow winch is still much faster then one that isnt working at all...

Kyle

By peter matusov on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Michel,

in terms of ease of control, few things beat a capstan. The waterworld feature (i've sent you the link to) was short in deck hands, and two of us were among the few in science party who's been at sea before. Hence the feelings - you can control a 2" mooring line under tension of 26k lbs with 2-4 inch precision in position.

But it does take experience or brains, say, not to wrap the line around your forearm or hand. And it may quickly become very dangerous.

I'd love to have a capstan, but... small things first.

By Moe (Moe) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 07:51 pm: Edit

>a slow winch is still much faster then one that isnt working at all

Lol, so we come back to the crank mounted winches?

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 07:54 pm: Edit

I know you havnt had yours very long Moe but honestly how many hard pulls have you done with it?

Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:03 pm: Edit

my girly winch has done a lot of hard pulls.

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:06 pm: Edit

LOL , that thing hasnt had to pull hard yet,,,,,yet........

Kyle

By Moe (Moe) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Kyle, its not just about how many hard pulls you've had, but if that shit is out there getting exposed, eating dust and ingestng water . . . well the electrics in the RE could fail too

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Yep , they are just as suseptable to water ingress as the rest. But it never has to work as hard so even hurting it out performs most.. I seal mine up. The case is already sealed..


Kyle

By Moe (Moe) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Tell me how you sealed the case--I just sent you an email regarding RE maintenance.

By John Lee on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Damn, I hope my beloved Husky doesn't meet the same fate. I got the 3.8" Amsteel too. I'm definitely not heading to next year's MAR.

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 09:24 pm: Edit

LOL..... beware the MAR,,,,,,,


Kyle

By randall phelps (Randall) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 09:25 pm: Edit

you gotta love a thread where you can mention "crank" and "winch" and have no negative connotation whatsoever...

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 09:28 pm: Edit

I think we just got it,,,,lol

Kyle

By Michel on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 10:14 pm: Edit

LOL,

Peter, sure you can do that with a capstan, that's their best feature, but, and a big but, imagine yourself stuck silly in the midle of the night by yourself, imagine the pain of dealing with the rope, and steering the disco at the same time. The hell with that I say. On boats it's great and that's were they belong, offroad they are serious work, especialy alone. Now to recover someone else, hell they work fine.

Michel

By Michel on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Kyle the point with the hydraulic is you will not blow a line. My got riped off, fix the mounting you fix that posibility. It's like pulling the cable out of the electric winch, if you pull the winch off the mount, that cable is coming off. And sure as shit, yes you may want to carry a spare fiting or 2 and some oil, since it's the same shit that goes in the power steering and the transmition is multipurpose anyway.

I will aggree however that the MM is not built like a tank. It pulls like a mother, has withstood 3 years of hard use, including canadian winters with no cover, and getting riped out of it's mount, but still it could be beefier. Especialy since it only weights 70lbs or so. I'd like to see a real casing instead of that aluminium and perhaps a longer and bigger drum for extra cable.

Michel

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 03:41 am: Edit

The capstan is a POS too. It is rated at 4000lbs, sure you can cheat and bump it up to about 12k with a steel pin but you are asking for trouble.

The Koenig is a worm drive shaft driven drum winch.

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 04:34 am: Edit

You got some pics of those Ron ? I still like to be able to run it with the motor off..


Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 05:30 am: Edit

Ron

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 05:32 am: Edit

That was the capstan:

Here is the koenig

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 05:34 am: Edit

woops,

Thats the PTO:

Here is the actual winch. There are two kinds:

By michel on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 05:34 am: Edit

Yep, thats the beast.

Michel

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 05:36 am: Edit

The one above is the PTO model, this one here is the crank driven model.




You can go to olvr.org for more info

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 11:53 am: Edit

Hmmm , I kinda dig that , the hell with that capstan......

Kyle

By michel on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Yeah another friends got that one in his 109, the only other true reliable winch system out there.

Michel

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Only? Hmmm , here we go again.....lol

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

and they are so well maintained..

so on the PTO driven one... thats not hydraulic?

its a shaft coming from the PTO directly into the winch?

rd

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:32 pm: Edit

The pto one mounts in the back of the transfer case (series) via a chain housing and is driven with drive shafts to the winch in front. The crank mounted one uses a dog clutch on the front crank and a driveshaft. This is the same arrangement as a capstan. generally the PTO is better but the crank driven one is usually more $$$ as you can still fit an OD. The PTO you get reverse and four forward gears. depending on if you have a SIIa or SII tranny the gearing will vary slightly but 1st is plenty to break whatever it is you are attached to adn fourth spools in pretty quick

By Ron on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Oh,

My idea is I can mount the crank one to the crank of a disco/rr

Ron

By peter matusov on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

With a PTO-driven winch, is the engine RPM your only control of the line speed? Is there a clutch or something?

I've been looking at the PTO winch on some of the Series during the British Car day last Sat., and couldn't figure shit out. Looked cool, though.

peter

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Hey!

I just flipped over to Greg's photo-set from another thread, and noticed....




Ya know, the wife would kill me, and it doesn't "look" the Disco part....
But it's the winch that I want on the Series.... so why not on the Disco, too??

-L

By cartner on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 06:24 pm: Edit

So a Koenig PTO winch will fit a Disco? with an auto box? is this a kit or what? wow.

By Michel on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 09:19 pm: Edit

I should requalify "only" by the only one I've seen work over and over again, in harsh environments i.e personal experiance.

Michel

By Ron on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 03:49 am: Edit

Cartner.

A Koenig crank driven winch should fit a disco. (the pto one won't)

I might make a kit. I know where a koenig crank driven winch without the mount or driveshaft is. That would be a good place to start as the driveshaft and dog would have to be made.

Ron

By Joe Casey on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Has anyone used a pierce sales winch? www.piercesales.com They sell worm winches for wreckers and they have a 12.5K electric winch for about 550. they also make pto winches too. i was thinking about hacking the arb to fit one of these muthas.

Joe Casey

By Kyle on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 07:54 pm: Edit

JC I like it , but I see some potential mounting issues. I think I will order one and find out..Its pretty much an RE with some items reversed.

Kyle

By Ron on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 04:32 am: Edit

Kyle,

I found the solution to all my issues.

See SW PTO thread

Ron

By Kyle on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 04:37 am: Edit

I dont see the thread youa re talking about Ron ?


Kyle

By Ron on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 04:43 am: Edit

Outage made me have to repost

end all be all of winches for your disco