By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Perhaps a particular make / type would work better under water / mud? I was only really considering an electric winch. Any thoughts welcome. Any experiences of them not working would be useful. Dean

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 02:53 pm: Edit

All electrics will work under water for a while, as long as the water isn't salt water. How long is the question...

The answer has to do with waterproofing and few electrics are waterproofed well from the factory except maybe Dave Bowyers Goodwinch G10/G12.

keith
discosaurus

By michel on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Be a bit more carefull than that, there's an article in LRO about winching with the electric winch submerged and it fried the whole electric system of the LR. I didnt read it, but that is the essance that was related to me.

Michel

By mike w on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 07:46 pm: Edit

any hydralic winch should work underwater.

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:00 am: Edit

Any more info would be great. What's so special about Dave Bowyers Goodwinch G10/G12? Are these just some other winches rebuilt? Are they around in the US?

Dean

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:04 am: Edit

RN sells them. Basically an X9 with a new motor new wire and some o rings to seal it.

Ron

All electric winches are POS

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:12 am: Edit

Dean,

Yep. Overpriced... sounds like you could get an X9 and rebuild it yourself, actually.

FYI: http://www.davidbowyer.com/

-L

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:48 am: Edit

""RN sells them. Basically an X9 with a new motor new wire and some o rings to seal it.""

Well, I don't think that statement really does those winches justice. Read the copy and make up your own mind. Do you really want to judge the product on the advice of someone who states "all electric winches are POS" ?

When my admittedly girly X9 craps, I'm going to investigate a Bowyer replacement motor for it.

keith
discosaurus

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 12:12 pm: Edit

2000 is basically what it will cost you from RN. If you are in that nieghborhood get a hydraulic or mechanical PTO winch . . . or not.

Ron

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Over doubling the price beyond what a regular X9 costs sounds high to me.

I'm not throwing electrics out.... I want a winch that can work when the vehicle isn't running, so mechanicals and hydraulics ARE out.

If it wasn't so I, sure, I'g go for a G10. But, why not get an X9 and revamp it yourself? Then you KNOW what's in there, what it can do, and how to maintain it.

IMHO, YMMV....

-L

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:03 pm: Edit

I had a chance to speak to David Bowyer, as well as some folks who use his winches. The guy makes a good product, and its doubtful you could rework a winch as well as he does for the same money. You sure do pay for it though.

I also appreciate your point about wanting the winch to work even when the vehicle is not, but rest assured, if you've got very far to winch and the truck isn't running, you're gonna run out of juice and then you won't be able to start the truck at all. I still like electronic winches for recreational use though.

I find it quite interesting that several on this board are SO down on electric winches. When I went through the whole "i need a winch" thing I spoke to a bunch of folk about this. It never ceases to amaze me that folks like Bill Burke, David Bowyer, and others who make their LIVING winching manage to make do with electric winches, yet some recreational users can't seem to make them last more than a few months at a time.

-P

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:12 pm: Edit

What kind of winch did you get Perrone ? And how far have you had to winch it with the motor off?

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:15 pm: Edit

I wonder too. I bought the whole husky is great deal and then it died. Oh well. PTO is the only way to go.

Ron

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Perrone,

Guess that's why I like the old Series... if the battery is out I CAN get it started!


It's not that I foresee a very long winching situation with it not running... what I'm picturing is one of those odd self-recovery situations where you can't get it started until you get the vehicle uprighted with its own winch... that kind of thing... Or kind of like where a Series is in a situation where gas is pouring 'out' of the carb because of the angle... you need to winch to get off of the slope before you can restart the rig.

I guess I ought to clarify... I like the idea of a mechanical, or a hydraulic winch (using a pump OTHER than the power-steering unit!), but I like electricals too... and an electric winch is more affordable. And I'm not THAT far away from anything else when I'm out and about...

Oh, also.... yeah, these guys do it for a living, but still, $2000 for a winch?? I can learn to re-build/improve one myself... I don't have to charge myself for my own time! Yeah, the parts would be for X amount of cash, but building a winch isn't the same as neurosurgery.

-L

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Exactly les , it opens up options that are closed with PTO and Hydraulic. Both of those types have their merits no doubt. But options are good... very good..

Kyle

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Hey Perrone ? What winch ya get? You got any pics of some winching action? Anything like that?

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Leslie,

The problem with a series and an electric winch is you don't get too long even with the truck running. Generator or a 35amp alternator don't give much charging. Even a 65 amp delco sucks.

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Perrone????

Kyle

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Ron, back to the first part of my statement...

"It's not that I foresee a very long winching situation with it not running". I'll be driving through most of it, the winch is used for those particularly hard, sticky points, then back to driving.

Also, with a Series, you learn to be patient... if you HAVE to, winch for a bit, then let it idle for a bit, winch a bit, idle for a bit.... I'm not advocating such, but it'd be doable....


-L

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:40 pm: Edit

L,
I know, I am just bitter at electric winches. I am not patient while drive, working on trucks yes, driving no.

Ron

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:43 pm: Edit

After having the poodle get toaseted, I understand.


Wanna send me a couple of your electric ones for 'disposal'? I've got some Rovers here that I can dispose of them on..... My Series has been begging me for a 8274... it whispers to me at night in my sleep ("My valence panel is gone, now mount a winch here")....


-L

By michel on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

So has anyone with an electric winch used it while it was completely under water? And if so, can you describe what was done to the winch/electrical system if anything. Obviously any PTO equip winch can do this, but most people need to know about it from an electric winches point of view.

Michel

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:08 pm: Edit

I had decided to buy the Superwinch Husky 10 for a few reasons.

1. Worm gear is tougher than planetary gears
2. Roller bearings
3. No heat problems for Amsteel line
4. Excellent reputation among Elec. Winches.


I have not bought the winch for two reasons.

1. Last truck payment is in 3 weeks (WHOO!)
2. RTE hasn't made a bumper for it yet, and I don't want the SG bumper.

Now this thing is not a panacea, but after recommendations from Bill Burke, David Bowyer, and having used this winch personally, I can say I think it will meet my needs. Others with a lot more winching experience may have differening opinons. I place a LOT of stock in what Mr. Burke had to say, and once he explained why they went left Warn and went to the Husky on the Camel Trophy, a lot of things made sense to me.

-P

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Perone,

Let me send you a pic of the dead poodle.

That f'in POS died and it had not been abused or anything.

Admittedly it is the first dead husky I have seen, but still it died and that is an unacceptable failure (especially because I had to take it out of the friggin bumper to have any change of fixing it where as an 8274 I could have swapped motors in situ in about 30 seconds).

Ron

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:32 pm: Edit

What's all this about a poodle? And send me any pic you want. I'm sorry your Husky died. That is the ONLY time I have ever heard of one dying. Maybe you got a bad one? I realize its little comfort, but the odds are VERY low. Unlike Warns which seem to die if you look at them wrong. The 8274 seems to be more reliable, but according to some people in the know, its more susceptible to mud and water intrusion.

-P

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:37 pm: Edit

And like a total of 3 people own a husky in the US which is probably why you never hear they never go bad. Ya right.

LOL

And stupidwinch is being very uncool about waranteeing it.

Ron

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Husky=poodle

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:48 pm: Edit

So you dont own a winch at all Perrone ? Read back to your initial comments on the topic. You dont know how far one will run with the engine off right? Or is one is any better then the other? The only info you have is from people that have "Interests" in a certain brand. Where is it you think that poodle has roller bearings? You had one apart or going by hearsay ?

Kyle

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:49 pm: Edit

...all three of them must be around the Midwest. Plenty of poodles here.

If I broke as much shit as you, stuporwinch probably wouldn't help me, either.



keith
discosaurus

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit

LOL , those winches dont have to work for a living out there... That freaking planetary 9K stuporwinch is as close to worthless as I have ever seen , it will stall at the drop of a hat. Yet allot of the boys in the west run em and have no issues. Go figure...

Kyle

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Whaaa, you're saying we don't have no stinking mud here in the Midwest ??

hehehe

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Not at all , I am saying its the opposite of hear. We can find rocks if we look for em but ussually end up door handle deep in some stinkin whale shit. You guys can find mud but are ussually blessed with high traction surfaces...

Kyle

By Discosaurus (Discosaurus) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Yeah.

Here's an example of a fine Illinois high traction surface...not much rock in those cornfields, either.

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Kyle,

Do me a favor. Shut the FUCK up! I have been been as patient and as pleasant with you as I care to. You have NOTHING to add to anyones questions or conversations other than saying what sucks, and trying to pick on people and products you don't like or understand.

If you don't like me FINE! If you've got a bone to pick with Bill Burke or other people who are clearly smarter and more knowledgeable than you, at least be man enough to admit it. Jesus, you're worse than a frigging nagging wife!

For the last DAMN time. EVERYONE here know's how much experience (or lack thereof) I have. You've taken great pains to point it out. Unlike you, I don't have to spend my hard earned money on crap, and I don't have to beat my head against a wall to get experience. I prefer to use my brain, pick up the phone, and call someone who knows what the hell they are talking about.

We ALL walk on the backs of other people's experience, and whether you like to admit it or not, before you became God's gift to Land Rover owners, you were an ignorant shit too. Not that you aren't now, but at least now you have more experience at it.

-P

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Ut oh.

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:16 pm: Edit

LOL , now that one was a real winner!!! LOL , Perrone , you make statements about shit you dont own. You make statements about shit you have no clue about. Will I bust your chops ? Yep , I will. Will I "Shut the fuck up" nope , not a chance.. Have I been very patient with your silly ass ? Very much so. I refrain most times from picking apart your dumb shit. Keep in mind that people are here on the Board sharing their EXPERIENCE you dumb son of a bitch,,,,lol they arent sharing their phone conversations... But if you only shared the experience you have you wouldnt have much to say would you? lol

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Kyle,

You can do better than that. Please try again.

Ron

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:22 pm: Edit

Careful there, Perrone. Get off your high horse and click on the "Contact" page. You will see 3 names there. Those 3 are the people who own, operate and pay for DiscoWeb. If you can't deal with Kyle, why are you posting on his web site? If you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.

Axel

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:22 pm: Edit

Ron , its hilarious,,,hehe how shall I respond? I think he is just a little pissed cause he is free to post his drivel on all the other boards around and is never asked to validate his bullshit.. The man wont even mount a decent set of tires on his truck and he is riding on some give away springs yet he talks about mods and all this other crap. I cant put too much energy into shooting his dumb ass down...

Kyle

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:34 pm: Edit

Kyle,

Lets try this again in small words so you can understand.

You have zero to say about other people sharing things they have heard or their friends have tried. So why do you feel the need to single me out? As I said, if you don't like me personally, that's your business.

I am NOT pissed that you try to have me "validate" anything. But I am only mad because you only seem to want ME to do it, and not anyone else. Hey, its your place. If you want to be an asshole in your house that's your business.

Nice that you should mention my tires (don't know where that came from) but they work fine for me. And plenty of other folks I know seem to like Trac Edges too. As for my springs, well I'm sure John at RoverTym would be surprised to know that he gave them away to me. I know that check of mine he cashed wasn't free. As for the mods on my truck, well... they are all quite well documented and despite what you say, they are installed, they all work, and I like them.

Axel, I can deal with Kyle just fine, thanks. And I am posting on this web page because I was trying to answer a question for someone who had one. Kyle seems too be either too busy, or too arrogant to bother helping people who need it.

-P

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Ahhh , you were "Helping" Perrone? And what with? Information from someone else? Thats why I go after you you silly bastard.. Your tires? I say something about your tires cause you post that your truck rides all niiiiiice yada yada yada. Anyone that has ever owned a tire cupped as bad as yours know that the ride isnt smooth.That kinda chips away your credability,,,,ya know?
As far as Validating. Man , what the hell have you validated on your own ? Dont go read something , dont pick up the phone. Post what you know .
As far as what I say and have said and who I have picked on and who I havnt well , look around you idiot , its in simple words I am quite sure you can understand. You however seem to be the only one affected rather nicely about it. And that says much....

Kyle

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:49 pm: Edit

How about posting what you know Perrone . Lets see how that works out...


Kyle

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Fair enough. Do you think you can let me do that without jumping in my shit?

Oh, and am I allowed to ask questions on your board?

-P

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Perrone,

Man you don't get it. You are just wrong too much and your tone implys that you know what you are only relaying/guessing. Most people have figued it out but others who may rely on the info without knowing could be at risk.

Ya I am guilty too sometimes but I also try to make it clear when I "think" I am right or offering a possible suggestion v when I know the answer for sure.

Kyle helps a lot. In most cases he just lets other people answer, but if no one does Kyle will answer if he knows. I like to think of Kyle as the BS checker. If it is wrong or BS Kyle will chime in, in not it is safe to assume it is correct.

Catch my drift . . .

And yes Kyle does have some weird tastes/opinions but he did not come up with them they are from his experience.

Ron

By peter on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:04 pm: Edit

hehehe... you guys had bad morning or what?

Ford and GM that make their living selling fine four-wheel drive vehicles manage to make do with their product, yet some recreational users can't seem to make them last more than a few months at a time (if they drove it the way they drive the land rovers)?

hehehe

peter

By PerroneFord on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Ron,

Yes. I do get it. This board is about sharing "EXPERIENCES" (so sayeth Kyle), and since I only have about 2.5 years of LR experiences, you, Kyle, Axel, and others have more than I do. This board is not about sharing ideas or trying to give people things to look at. I suppose that it the difference between this Rover board and all others where definitive answers are hard to come by.

I'm glad Kyle helps alot. I guess I just haven't read those threads (and I don't read many of them). Thanks for pointing out that I am wrong often. I just wonder if I "think" I am right, and my answer doesn't jibe with what the moderators "think" is right, if I am going to get run up the flagpole.

-P

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Again , if I "ran you up the flag pole" every time I thought you were wrong you would have heard much more from me over the last few months. Starting with a statement you made about posting here awhile back on another board. As I remember you said you wouldnt do it because our board was more about flame wars then information (Short version). Then low and behold , here you are. If you have an issue with people calling you out go back the the RN board. I think you can get away with more there..

Kyle

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Damn, I wish I could off-road in all the crap in this thread! I could off-road all day in the stuff and come back very happy.

Only about one fifth of all the messages have even the slightest bit to do with winching. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WINCH TO BUY WHEN I AM STUCK IN A FUCKING MUD HOLE IN THE BARRENS. I presume my engine is still running, and if not then my hand-winch will get me out, so I don't mind an electric one I guess, and since they are cheaper why not?

What's the big deal with the Bowyers winch? I mean, it may be rebuild and last longer, but the important point for me is that it will work in MUD, because MUD just happens to by my thing.

If I slap in a gob of silicone, will it work under water? If not, what can I do instead of paying double for the Bowyers?

Everyone please calm down, - there is one guy that ALL out anger should be directed too, remmeber him last month?

Dean

Ps Kyle and Perrone - are you actually good buddies in real life?

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:22 pm: Edit

For starters Dean , the pics of that mount you posted suck. Secondly , if you spend any amount of time in that enviroment , taking care of the winch is key.

Kyle

By mongo on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:25 pm: Edit

It's gotta be MONDAY!!! Hey I've had the same Warn winch that's on my DII on 2 jeeps. All I've ever done is maintain it, changed the cable, cleaned the contacts, repacked everything...no problems. As for working under water. lots of things on rovers don't like working when wet, let alone under water. I can see how a long pull with the winch submerged can fry the entire eletrical system, with any winch.
I have seen several different winches stall, big ones,littles ones, mostly because of the application, not the winch being a POS. Most of the problems were from lack of use and improper use.
Buy a winch, but learn how to use the thing. You can kill someone very easily if you don't know what your doing. Enjoying this very much...one other thing, I've just saw 2 weeks ago a milemarker self destruct for two reasons: Was first use in a year, idiot pulling single line...

Frank

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Kyle, I know it sucks, for sure, and big time. But my wheels are only 4 months olds, and the misses won't let me hack it up (at least for a few years anyway). So that mount could be fun for a beginner like me. But since it's so low down, that's why I am asking about a waterproof one.

Dean

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:29 pm: Edit

I take it a winch can't mount on the roof?


Just kiddin'

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Frank,

Give me some more information on the Milemarker self-destruction. What actually happened to the winch? Please describe the failure. I've used mine several times this year with no problems and would like to know what happened.
Was it on a Land Rover?

Mike

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:48 pm: Edit

This frying the electrics is worrying? I guess there's no way to isolate the rest of the electrical system, since they at least share the ground?

Dean

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Kyle, Ron

How much taking care is involved? Do I need to remove it after dipping it in muddy shit, clean and oil, and put back? Or just rinse it off with a hose?

Dean

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Letting it run is one thing. You dont want it to get drowned and then sit without running. You want it to dry out afterwards. The problem with the planetaries is that water gets into everything and starts to eat it. With the worms (If you dont water proof) it only gets into the motor. You want to Run any of them for a good period after a good dunking so they can dry out. I dont mean stop on the trail right there and let it run but atleast once after each water soaking trip.If I was dunking a planetary every week end or so I would take it apart once a month atleast and relube it. If you are only going out once a month and dunking it I would probably pucsh that back to every three months..

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Dean,

The only electric winch I am not POed at is the 8274 That is because I can carry a spare motor and replace it easy.

If you want to play in mud get an RE, 8274, or Husky the rest will eat themselves up when mud/water gets inside.

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

and then the winch will last slightly longer.

heheheh

still bitter about electic winches

But if you really want to play get a PTO winch

Ron

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Kyle,

Thanks.

Dean

Ps when you relube, are you taking it off and taking it apart? Or is there an oil-hole or something to squirt into?

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Ron,

The PTO - is there one for a D2? And do you think Kyle would agree with you?

Dean

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Ignore this message

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:31 pm: Edit

The Maxidrive PTO should fit a DII. then mod an RE or simialr to run off it. Hard but you can winch literally miles where with anything else feet is about it.

Call Bill at GBR

Kyle likes his RE.

Relube on a planetary means take apart regrease, reinstall

on a worm or 8274 just change the oil

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:34 pm: Edit

I think the PTO is an ungodly force from hell. IT will do more then you would ever ask it to do. But , it will only do it if the engine is running. There are also added parts to be considered and they require some maintenance as well. The only questions between the two are do you want the possible option of it running if the truck is stalled...

kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:44 pm: Edit

"The only questions between the two are do you
want the possible option of it running if the truck is stalled..."

Yes, this is why i have the little flamer warn back on a multi mount now (off the series where it was temporarily). I am also thinking that with the bumper for the PTO winch I could easily incorporate a front reciever as well, thus allowing a back up front winch.

As far as maintaince. The only things would be:

Change oil in winch and chain housing
Grease fittings on winch and u joints on drive shafts.

Assuming you carry spare u joints and skid plate the driveshafts there should be no concerns A crank driven winch eliminates these concerns as well but you loss the transmisson control of the winch.

Ron

I have heard many stories of PTO winches in use under duress some of winch the term miles comes into play. The only failures I know about arise from stupidity, namely driving off with the PTO engaged and breaking stuff that way.

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Yeah , if you drive off with it engaged the shaft WILL come out. I have replaced many a PTO shaft because guys drove off with the handle up...


Kyle

By Michel on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:52 pm: Edit

ummmm,

I've driven off with the pto engaged....no brakage, thank god.

Maintenance on PTO with hydraulic pump, none. I mean none to be done, and none needed, even after wading (like it cares hehe) or mud bath or whatever. Hydraulic oil may need changing I guess sometime this decade, I'm not sure, i'll ask the hydraulic shop about that.

Michel

By Kyle on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Yours isnt the same Michel. we are talking PTO shaft. You dont have one..

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:04 pm: Edit

what about a tirfor hand winch?

http://www.terrainmaster.com/tirfor_winches.html

any good? they would work under water

i know it would be ludicrous to try and winch more than 12" with a jack-all, how do these compare?

rd

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:09 pm: Edit

"if you drive off with it engaged the shaft WILL come out"

Or bend the crap out of the fairlead and crack the chain housing which happened to my Koenig in a previous life

Ron

By michel on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:12 pm: Edit

We'll, a budy has a PTO "SHAFT" winch in his 109, and yes you do not want to drive down the highway with it engaged, he can drive and winch at the same time.

PS, he does need a new ujoint...but the thing is pretty old.

Michel

By Ron on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:15 pm: Edit

Micheal,
Those u joints are stock spicer parts, nothing fancy.

Ron

By michel on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Ahhhh but Ron, I've got enough problems to work on my own shit. I'll let him know tough, just in case he's not aware of this, but I'm sure he is, being a long time rover nut and cheap.

Michel

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Bill at GBR just gave me a quick rundown - he seems to suggest that a PTO with hydraulic driven milemarker would be the best bet for a disco - something about the not being so much space compared to a defender.

Then I suppose I can mount it low as a bastard (hehehe) and it will still work under water.

Anyone know how much is involved in the installation - seems like a big deal (at least for the beginners like me!)

Dean

By michel on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Yeah the installation is a bit of a bitch, but you have a couple of choices to make it easier, but there's a drawback.

First the pump size is what makes the install dificult. You could go with a smaller pump and gain more working room but the down side is you get less flow of oil, and or you have to increase the speed of the pump wich means more rpm.

The basic run down of the install is this:
Remove the center console, take off the transfer case shifter/knob.
Unbolt the exaust system were it crosses under the transfer case, and loosen the bolts at the engine.
Unbolt the crossmember and lower it down but don't take it off. A small jack is usefull or a big fucking pry bar for this.
Place a jack under the transfer case (the stock one is fine) and make is snug, then remove the three brackets that hold the transfer case in place. (good time to see if any are toast) Then lower the tranfer case onto the jack and bring it down until you can see the PTO cover on the case.

The rest is basicaly just bolting the PTO on the transfer case, then the pump on the back of the PTO. Before putting the tranfer case back in place this is a good time to intall the hose fittings into the pump, then put the transfer case back. It will fit with about 2" to spare once you have it all back togheter.

Then you run your lines from the pump to the oil reservoir (hope you didn't forget that, about 2 gallons will do ya) and back to the overflow valve, and to the winch. You need the valve cause the pump will put out 3000psi, so it needs to be limited to 1500psi, and depending on the valve of the winch you may be able to handle 3.5 gpm or if you get the beefy one from MM you can increase this to 8gpm.

So, yes it's a big deal, big dollars, but once done you never have to talk about winches again. Unless the winch is not mounted we'll enough on the mount...

Michel

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Okay, Ron,

Been thinking, and here's what ya need.

First, pick which one you want, either the PTO mechanical winch or the PTO hydraulic winch. Then, get the poodle rebuilt.

Now, get Kyle, or RTE John, or whoever, to build you a custom bumper, so that you can....

Mount them both.... have two roller fairleads mounted side-by-side, one for the poodle winch and one for the PTO winch.

Best of both worlds.

And then throw a black-rat into the back for redundancy.


How about them apples?

-L

By wayne smith on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 10:59 pm: Edit

The 8274 high mount will work under water, I've done it dozens of times, water and mud over the binnet and it keeps on pulling. Where can I post a picture to show you our Range Rover in Malaysia with a foot of water over the bonnet still winching, even when the engine shut down. We put a breather off the motor and the gearbox back up into the engine bay. We also drill a filler and drain plug into the gearbox housing so after it is submerged, when we get home we change the oil. The biggest problem people have with submerging their winch is not getting all the shit out afterwards, which then causes bearings and so forth to seeze.
regards Wayne Smith

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 08:20 am: Edit

Michel - thanks for the details. This is for a D2 I hope?
Wayne - Check the formatting section. Got an mpeg too?

Dean

By Ron on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 09:18 am: Edit

Ah Mr. Smith,

Nice to see you again

Dean here are some Mpegs of the Smith's RR to keep you busy

http://lucas.ucs.ed.ac.uk/rainforest.challenge.2000/

By michel on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 11:43 am: Edit

Sorry Dean, this is for a D1, I haven't looked at a D2, you are on your own for that one.

Michel

By mongo on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 12:11 pm: Edit

Hey Mike,
The low down was basically he overloaded one side of the spool with too much cable. It was a ford f250, custom install, bigger power steering pump, looked good, never used it. He was trying to pull his truck out of a mud hole and was off center by about 15 degree's. Pulling on a single line with about 70 feet of cable out. Really stupid and really dangerous. As he wound up the cable on one side of the winch it bent spool and broke a gear in the winch. The guy driving hit the gas thinking the winch was stalling.NOT. As the pressure increased, the crack in the casing expanded and pow! no winch, no power steering and two guy blocking the trail with thier thumbs up thier A$$.(trying to get pic's)
Anyways, I rigged a 3 way pull, and with my little warn 8000, pulled him out with no problem. (after driving around him,which he said couldn't be done!) Only proves that winches can be useful or dangerous.

Frank

By michel on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Thanks Frank, that makes some sense. I've seen someelse do this with a warn and it caught fire, the point is dont jam the cable...

But tell me, how would a double line pull change this situation? You still have the same operator letting the cable bind on one end..

Michel

By mongo on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Hey Mike,
He would have anchored in a different spot, that would have changed the angle that the cable pulled back on to the spool. But he told me he was in a hurry and didn't want to mess around with all that other gear. Basically, he's a moron. Blew out his winch and power steering pump.

Frank

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Bet he didn't save much time!

By mongo on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 05:33 pm: Edit

No, He didn't...it was pretty funny to watch all the power steering fluid spray all over the place. If he spent the extra 10 mins to rig the pull correctly, he still have a winch...

Frank

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 08:30 pm: Edit

Frank,

I'm glad to know that that it was operator error and not a malfunction of the winch. I've only had the Milemarker for about 4 months. So far, it hasn't let me down.

Mike