By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:31 am: Edit

Interesting observation here - replaced the stock open diff this weekend with a Detroit ,but after pulling the stock one - there was what I think would be excessive wear of the diff case (side opposite the ring gear)itself where the spider gear is flush against it. The gear had worn itself quite a distance back into the case, so much so that the spider would sit at an angle if the diff was tilted side to side. Backlash was way out too.

Just wondered if anyone else had any similar observations/ideas? BTW - stock diff had 60K on it.

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:35 am: Edit

How far out was the back lash ? And the case ? well , they are shit. That help ? Glad to hear you got a real locker in there. You have nice crisp clicks while making sharp turns?


Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:43 am: Edit

Hi Bill B.

Thanks for the help.

That thing was way out of wack. Didn't Bill S say 12 thousands was the backlash on it?

Yet the dif that was pulled out of the casing stamped 9/58 (sept 1958) was in great shape hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ron

Now if the friggin ARB would have only cooperated!

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:47 am: Edit

Kyle - the backlash (as Ron notes) was at 12 thou on the stock diff.

I'm amazed at how quiet the Detroit is....If I have the windows down and the radio off, I can definitely hear it clicking away on sharp turns (yep - very defined clicks), but other than that, no banging or popping - almost like it's not there.

Ron - you have mail...

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:50 am: Edit

Thats good to hear , the ones that dont click bang and pop... 12 thousands isnt really that bad. I have seen them in the 20s and they were still quiet... Makes them weaker tho...


Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:00 am: Edit

The worst thing was one of the gears in the dif had eaten away at the case and litterally wobbled around when prodded.

Creaped me out.

Ron

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:02 am: Edit

Just to set the record straight - stock diff backlash was at 12 thou - the Detroit set up at 5 thou.

Kyle - have you seen other stock carriers with that much wear in the ones you've swapped? I haven't yet meaured the recess, but its gotta be 40-50 thou

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

Yep , pretty much all of the ones that had some miles on em are that way. Thats where most of this clunking that people are getting is coming from.The gears relation to one another gets soo wide. Axel's diff didnt really show any signs of that wear but he had the optional two piece cross shaft Yours should be much quieter now going from drive to reverse or vise versa...


Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:18 am: Edit

Interesting Kyle.

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:28 am: Edit

The stock diff itself is just crap Ron. Its freaking oil bathed for christ sakes and shouldnt be getting that kind of wear so fast. I have had 9" fords apart with like 9 million miles on them and they are just like new... What I am wondering about is the rangie. I know it has a better diff in it but I wonder if it still suffers from that same wear.


Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:31 am: Edit

Rangie? Better dif?

Huh.

Only NBS RR would be a better dif otherwsie tis the same I am told.

LR did make a 4 pin diff and a factory LSD but . . . rarer than rocking horse manure they are

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:36 am: Edit

WEll , they are a better diff. I have seen this first hand. I have some cross shafts here out of the various dead soldiers and the one that came out of Seans A's dead rangie is bigger. It also bent more then broke and is mostly intact. The disco shafts however shatter like a fucking glass rod...

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:38 am: Edit

Kyle,

What year? The only thing I can think of is the 10 spline RR dif is somehow better in other ways.

24spline as I understood it were the same PN etc from D90 to RR to Disco

Ron

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:44 am: Edit

Ron - a good example of this might be John B's '87 RR - the spider gears did shatter, but the case was fine and his truck had 260+K miles on it at the MAR when it grenaded. When we pulled it, other than shattered gears, all else looked good.

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:51 am: Edit

That maybe true of the 24 spline diffs Ron. Thats why I was asking. I know that 10 spline is a better unit as I have seen it...


Kyle

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 11:56 am: Edit

Sean Areney's RR is an 88, and it did have 10 spline axles/diff in it when it exploded, as I recall.

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 12:08 pm: Edit

I see.

But 10 spline axles suck so the early RR having a "better" dif for all practical purposes does none of us any good

The only possible benefit would be if the 24spline RR ones were different but I don't think this is the case (I at least know they are interchangeable).

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 12:34 pm: Edit

WEll , if the spoders out of a disco will fit in the early RaRo carrier then then it is of some use. I have an idea that the later ones are stronger as well..


Kyle

By George Gamarci on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:22 pm: Edit

Hi, I have a question for Ron. When and for what application did LR make a LSD? I'm familiar with their 4 pin diffs, but have never heard of them making a limited slip diff. BTW, I'm not a disco owner so I hope it's OK for me to post here.

Thanks,

George
95 D90 SW#117/500

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:31 pm: Edit

LR made a couple LSDs. Some early prototype RRs had them and they were fairly (say 1 in 1500) common in series rovers in the late 60s.

The early LSDs I am told were 4 pin although I have not examined the one I know exists.

Ron

By p m on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 05:29 pm: Edit

FWIW,
when we pulled the stock disco's diff at ~89kmi, it had 1 thou of run-out, and 4 thou backlash. displayed perfect wear pattern, and the gears looked brand new.

i was impressed.

peter

By lynden on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Are LSD's available for our application? Who makes them (I saw the Detroit TT in tech section- is that all?) and are they any cheaper than a locker. I think I want a locker for those hill climbs but I don't do enough off roading to justify $3K in axle work. If I could get an LSD w/out changing out my axles I'd probably go for someting like that. It just seems I'm always spinning one wheel or another and just not getting traction.
Thanks,
Lynden

By Ron on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Yes TT. $358-450

You can also get a Quaife but it is 1000.

TT you can run on stock shafts. Kyle would say you should get HD ones but I am confortable without them. No where near as harsh as a DL or ARB.

Ron

By lynden on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Ron, do you or have you run the LSD's? Are they worth the $ (do they do what they're supposed to do?) and where did you get yours? Thanks again, I might be leaning that direction. Also, are they a good idea for front and rear???
Lynden

By p m on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Lynden,

get a TT or two from Expedition Exhange, or GBR.
Bill at GBR sent me a TT for $438 with bearings pressed on and shipping, you may squeeze a better deal from John and Ho
With a TT, you won't be climbing vertical walls, but you will be very pleased, believe me.
I've noticed a side benefit of a rear TT - it restored the stock handling of a OME HD-lifted Disco.

peter

By Ron on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 08:59 am: Edit

Lynden,

We have a front TT in the disco, and when I get motivated enough we will have a rear one too.

Very pleased.

I got mine from Leon Rosser Jeep.

Ron

By lynden on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Great... another damned thing I want. I'll have to start budgeting again.
Thanks for the info.
Lynden

By jp on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:43 am: Edit

The 'Rover' diffs are 99% of production - no rear cap, nose comes as an assy. 'Salisbury' have rear caps, integral nose as in Dana. Much stronger, 4 pin spiders. Fitted mostly to military, and heavy duty civilian series - Defenders etc. The axles from Disc rear brake coil spring defenders etc should (YMMV) fit a disco or rangie, check thread types etc. Salisbury front axles are REAL rocking horse shit territory. My mate has a 97 Defender 3.5l , came with Salisbury rear, vented discs front etc.
To my knowledge, LR NEVER made any LSD axles.

By Kyle on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:49 am: Edit

Just because the Salisbury has an integrated third memeber that is not what makes it stronger. What makes it stronger is component size and make up. THe Salisbury is basically a dana 60. There were plenty of old drop out style Dana 60s.
Rangie Axles and disco Axles are also not interchangeble , the right years share spline count but thats about it..

Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

"Rangie Axles and disco Axles are also not interchangeble , the right years share spline count but thats about it.."

Then why do they have the same PN?

As I understand it:

90-95 RR
94-99 DI
94-97 D90

can all use 24 spline axles out of any of them. RR 90 to late 93 have 10 spline but you can pop in 24s if you want out of any of the others.

NAS D110s have 10spline fronts and drum salisbury rears

Ron

By Kyle on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 05:41 pm: Edit

You know Ron , you may be right. Its probably the pre 90 rangie that has wet hubs ...


Kyle

By Ron on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Yes,

Non ABS RR have different hubs and therefore you cannot bolt in the axles without changing the hubs and such (been meaning to and have the parts just have not gotton motiveated enough to do so yet).

Aftermarket 24 spline are available

On the plus side Non ABS RR have the bigger 24/23 spline CV as opposed to the later 32spline which is smaller and weaker.

Also the 24 spline ashcroft inner fronts are really cheap as well. So if you are building a front axle that is the way to go.

Ron