By Art on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 07:44 pm: Edit

I've I got a 93' LWB Rangie. Looking to add a locker to the rear, keep the stock gears, and upgrade top GBR HD rear axles. A detriot would be less of a hassle, but would it make an uncomfortable daily driver. Making noise isn't an issue, I just don't want to have to dread driving it. Would the ARB better to go with for a dialy driver?

By r0ver4x4 on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:01 pm: Edit

yeah go ARB my buddy has one in his rig its nice plus it sounds cool to air it up.....ARB

By Art on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Well, I'm not lookin for it to sound good, I'm not sure about the ARB, don't wanna deal with all those damn air lines, more chance to fail, but if it's more practicle than the Detriot for what I need, it might be what I'll get.

Art

By Craig on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Art-
Arb has introduced a HD airline setup as an option with their lockers. Bye bye blown airlines! Go with the ARB, you won't regret it.
Craig

By p m on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Art,

you may or may not get lucky with a detroit. i have a detroit EZ in the rear of a 109"-wheelbased rig (not a rover), it does not affect handling noticeably, but scares the shit outta bystanders on the supermarket parking lot when i make a tight turn.

if you are sure you can live with noise, get a Detroit. (i haven't really gotten used to it in a year). Otherwise, get a TrueTrac (nice improvement in handling of a 2" lifted disco, but it ain't rock climber), or... no, don't get ARB... if you want your locker to be there when you need it.

peter

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:18 pm: Edit

PLenty of detoits running around in daily drivers. YOu should get some good feed back on that. Mine gives me no problems at all.


Kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:19 pm: Edit

art, you really have to drive one and see it for yourself.
i have a detroit and drive it daily.
my buddies all got detroits in teh disco and d90s and they all drive them daily.

AND SO CAN YOU!!! JUST DO IT!!!

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:20 pm: Edit

I have had a Detroit in my rear axle for almost 2 years now, and have not had any problems whatsoever. It makes no noise except for a little ratcheting on tight turns. Other than that, I don't even notice it's there for the most part. The supposedly poor handling with a Detroit on road is largely a myth.

By Craig on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:21 pm: Edit

One more thing- If you do go with an Airlocker, they need to be used frequently to maintain the integrity of the seals.
TT does sound like a decent option for you as well.
Craig

By Art on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:30 pm: Edit

Would a TT in the rear perform better than a Detriot. I'f I'm gonna put a locker in I might as well go all out. This will mainly be used to help on the rocks.

By Chris Browne on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:30 pm: Edit

Doesn't the LWB already have traction control at the rear??

Perhaps Trutrac is the only thing left if DL and ARB are out

By Craig on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Chris-
ARB's are not an issue for tractin control rovers. We ocassionaly install them in the 4.0/4.6 RangeRover(RD57) and Disco2 (RD56)
Craig
also: you are correct, all LWB's had rear traction control.

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Peter , you have an EZ locker , a cheap piece of shit! Dont compare the two. The EZ and the loctrite are garbage.... If someone you know has a soft locker thats noisey then he has a bad detroit. Its very simple...


Kyle

By r0ver4x4 on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:52 pm: Edit

ARB
r0ver4x4

By Matt Milbrandt (95discovery) on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 08:59 pm: Edit

I have been very happy with my Detroit. I have had absolutely no problems driving it on an everyday basis, and anyone with good driving sense should have no problems with handling.

Matt

By p m on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Kyle, i know that EZ is a cheap POS. but i also heard DL'ed rig, it wasn't as obnoxiously loud, but not unnoticeable. I wouldn't mind a DL a bit on my truck, but not on the disco as long as it is my wife's daily driver.

she's been bitchin about the disco having vague steering, and it turned out that she kept the pedal to the metal on the curves - and that's with the TT.

Art - no, TT will not perform as well as a Detroit, nor as locked ARB. But with a TT you may sleep well without much worries about your stock axleshafts. BTW, are yours 10- or 24-spline? 93 was a change-over year for a RR.

peter

By chrisvonc on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 09:21 pm: Edit

I run detroits both front and rear in my daily driver. never any noise except a clank once in a blue moon if i race around an onramp or parking lot too fast. hardly noticable at all driving on highway. I love them.

Chris

By Art on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 09:26 pm: Edit

I got the 10 spline right now, but if I got the DL I would upgrade to the GBR HD 24 spline, and if I put a TT in the front just upgrade to a stock 24 spline.

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Chris , you DID run them front and rear for a short period,,,,LOL , you arent now... TT front Detroit Rear...

Kyle

By hadaz on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:05 pm: Edit

I also have a Detroit in the rear of my Disco. It has been there for approximately 45000 miles. I wish the rest of the Disco was as reliable as the Detroit has been for me. I look it as reassurance that the detroit is working when I hear the ratcheting when I make turns.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:13 am: Edit

Just put the DL in recently - so no long term results yet, but I drive 70 miles/day to work and no problems and it is NOT noisy at all - I can only hear it ratchet on sharp, slow turns if I have the windows down and radio off

Simple and cheap - go with the DL - ARB will let you down in the long run....

my $.02

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 11:18 am: Edit

so art, you gonna do it?

DO IT!!!!!

By Art on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 11:55 am: Edit

Ho, I just cant's say no to a cheerleader.It's lookin like I'm gonna go with the DL in the rear. Now another Q. Will I need to upgrade to HD axle from the stock 24 spline in the front if I put in a TT?

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:07 pm: Edit

you dont' have to, but it's good idea to.

By Ron on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Art,

If you get "fresh" 24 spline stockers you won't break them with a TT anytime soon.

HD are nice but $$$ also ETC makes the TT more effective (ETC kicks in and the TT almost acts like a locked dif). You will still get better peformance with a DL or ARB but a TT is a viable option.


My 2 cents

Ron

By Pres. Bush,Jr on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Mr. Ho, after the national budget talks we met on due to the current crisis, I do appreciate your input and the value of the American people to keep spending and buying regardless of recession, lay offs and germ death. Also your willingness to go public and endorse your and my plan by encouragement of public spending regardless of anything will be rewarded by our government. I will see to it you will not be drafted. Keep up the good graphics.
George

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:34 pm: Edit

mr president, that applies to you too. go get a disco and come back here, and i'll tell you how to spend your cash.

By p m on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:35 pm: Edit

LOL!!!!!!!

By p m on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:36 pm: Edit

LOL!!!!!!!

By Pres.Bush.Jr on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Sorry,I own about 25,000 humvees,but I will speak to my Isreali friends about their Defender gunships and maybe send them to you.
George

By Ron on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Hey GB,

Go take one of the 110s that the rangers have and come hang out at a rally. Better yet borrow your daughters DII

Ron

By Pres. Bush on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:46 pm: Edit

My daughters D II is actually a govt surplus vehicle collected in a Columbian raid so it is a write off, so I gave it to her.
Sure smells funny inside, and we had all the white powder tested, but it's ok.

By chrisvonc on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 03:12 pm: Edit

HAHAHA.. Kyle you are correct. That had slipped my mind.
I did run the rear locker in the front for 300 miles. I dont advise as a daily driver. LOL

Chris

By MA on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 06:11 pm: Edit

I have a TT in the rear of my Disco. I can't say how it performs in rock climbing, but in every thing else, it is AWESOME. Especially in the mud. On-road, you don't even know its there. It doesn't make any noise. Also, I found that during turning on slick surfaces is like driving down a dry road. I could confidently drive in snowy/icy conditions as I would on a regular day. I ran dual TT's for about 2 months and I didn't think the front one made much of a difference. So, if your off-roading doesn't include rock crawling, a TT would be the best choice. I'll eventually get into rock crawling, and when I do, I'll get a Detroit back there.

By lynden on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit

MA, when are you going to send that TT you pulled out of you front over to me??? (would you sell it?)
Lynden

By Moe on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Art, I suspect a lot who have the DL in the rear have adjusted their driving styles to suit, if it was a problem to begin with. I have only had the DL/TT set for several weeks. At first, a bit of serious popping in rear just at that 'zone' where you are neither accelerating or braking hard but drifting to one side to take a corner or slight curve. During those times, it feels like the DL is 'wondering' what is required and sometimes will unlock with a loud pop. It seems the setup works better driving with more force and direction--better for the brakes and engine anyway. I have no problem using the DL/tt as a daily driver but have a lot to learn on how it operates off-road.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 07:40 pm: Edit

OK, not to incite a riot or anything, but what really works better as a rear locker: ARB or Detroit? I'm not talking about the electrical ARB shit or ratchety clank clunk Detroit daily driving bullshit either. I'm talking about gettin you where you're goin off-road. Which works best to get you up that loose, cross-axled cliff?

I ask because I am considering moving my ARB up front and goin detroit in the rear. But the ARB has proven invaluable in the rear, so I don't want to slap in a detroit & be unhappy. Also, maybe just leave ARB in back & go TT in the front?

By Scott Hayes (Scott_H) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Uh-oh Blue....now you've done it....

By Craig on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:02 pm: Edit

apples to apples
locked is locked
Craig

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:03 pm: Edit

hey Scott, you seen this action yet?:

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:05 pm: Edit

there's no limited-slip mojo goin on with the detroit? I'm curios since it gets to "choose" on it's own when to lock as opposed to the ARB getting a direct order from the captain to do it's thing. Obviously, I don't have any experience with the Detroit (I'm clueless enough about my own ARB...)

By lynden on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:11 pm: Edit

-Praying to myself quietly as I read the thread...

Please God don't let Kyle read Bluegills last posts...


Just kidding, Blue, Kyle hates the ARB, I'm sure he'll be here soon enough to dispell any rumors or thoughts you have on the performance of the ARB.
Lynden

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Oh, I know that. At least he loves my plastic mexican hella 500s. I just couldn't live with myself if he hated two of my things

By Scott Hayes (Scott_H) on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Yea Blue, that was a GREAT shot! That was one of the spots that made me realize I needed a Detroit.

By MA on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Sorry Lynden, that front TT has a 94 RR classic to make happy. I sold it a long time ago. Eventually, the rear one will go to that same RR classic. The thing that worries me about a full locker is turning on a gravel road or turning on ice. There are a lot more situations that make me nervous with a Detroit, like driving from point A to point B. Slick conditions worry me the most. Where I live, it doesn't snow that much. But when it does, it snow A LOT. Last December, when I had the front and rear TT's, ALL the roads in our area were pure ice. My Disco performed excellent. I could steer without the front end plowing on and sending the rear in a fish tail. I could drive 40-50mph with no worries. I've been really happy with my Land Rover and my TT.

By Kyle on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Craig , "locked aint locked" exactly. The ARB aint a locker at all actually. Its an air spool. The detroit will unlock off road even when the center diff is locked in a tight turn. It wont however (Bluegill) unlock when you add some throttle to it. It will always be there when you need it. The same CANNOT!!! be said for that god damned ARB...No one can argue that...

Kyle

By Craig on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 09:57 pm: Edit

Kyle-
Bluegill wrote:
"which works best to get you up that loose, cross-axled cliff?"
Auto or push button, the end result is the same. ie.. no variation between wheels on the same axle, or 'locked'. I won't argue about how the result is achieved, but none the less, one won't outperform the other in the same terrain (assuming they are both in good operating condition)
I know this is another can 'o' worms, but have you seen the two beside each other? The ARB is pure beef. Detroit looks like a toy next to it.
Craig

By Kyle on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Yeah Craig its a good diff , much much better then the stock one. I cant argue that. My problem is that the damn things are high maintenance when compared to the detroit. If you are just running short trails and you dont mind that sort of thing happening then the ARB is a decent diff. If you are running long expedition type trails you need something you know will do what you put it in there for. The ARB just isnt that reliable. My experiences and observations with the ARBs didnt start with Rovers. It started with cars. THe mustang crowd thought it was the best thing since sliced bread that for a quick minute. You ever seee a guy get a green and mat the pedal thinking both tires were going to get power to them and it didnt ? lol , not a pretty site...

Kyle

By Craig on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:17 pm: Edit

Well put Kyle-
I have to admit though. If I had to do it over again, (wait a second, I DID do it over again!) I would still go with dual ARB's. I had two small failures in ten years with my ARB's. Both were my own fault though. One was a bad (or old) toggle switch for the compressor, and the other was a blown front line which I nicked trying to get at that damn lower front shock mount. First problem was fixed with a new toggle switch, and the HD airlines from ARB fixed the other.
To each his own. I think both are a fine addition to Rovers that see trail use in all conditions.
Regards,
Craig

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Much to Kyle's chagrin, I'm happy with my ARB. Especially since I've taken the time to go through the whole system to understand how & why it works (bought Disco with it already on-board so I was basically clueless). I won't be ditching my ARB. But since I do want to lock my front diff, too, I'm checking out the options and I'd really like to consider something other than another ARB just to experience a little more of life. Is a front TT worth it? I like the idea of it "settling down" front-end wander as a side benefit. What about front Detroit, or doesn't that work well with turning wheels? I seem to recall someone among us who has front & rear Detroits...

By p m on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 12:22 pm: Edit

oh Blue,

get a front Detroit, you'll get a kick out of it.
a box full of spare CV joints, too.

hehehe... we live in the area with dense and aggressive city traffic, and even something as gentle as a rear TT is noticeable.

also Blue, try driving a front Detroit'ed Disco to Sedona after a snowstorm. I've never had this experience, but something tells me it's got to be a thrill ride

peter

By Kyle on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 12:27 pm: Edit

It actually aint as bad as you would think Peter. I aint gonna say how this happened (oops) but I put one in the front of a disco and drove it. it wasnt really bad at all. It would wind up though going down the road and from time to time would get a little freaky.. Not at all what you would expect though...


kyle

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 12:34 pm: Edit

blue, how about putting that rear ARB in the front and going with a detroit in the rear?
you can just swap 3rd members there.

By p m on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 12:38 pm: Edit

kyle,

a tight turn going up 6% grade on ice does wonders. especially if there's no guardrails and there are some few-hundred-feet drop-offs on the side.

but - i'm shootin shit here, last time i drove any of my trucks in these conditions they had open diffs.
that was one of so.cal. "4x4s with chains only" deals, you know, they put it up after a drizzle.

peter

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 01:36 pm: Edit

>"blue, how about putting that rear ARB in the front and going with a detroit in the rear?
you can just swap 3rd members there. "

Yeah, John Lee & I were discussing this at TH - this may be the direction I'm going. But, before I do, what is everyone's opinion on rear ARB / front TT vs. rear Detroit / front ARB?

decisions, decisions....

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 01:59 pm: Edit

blue, this is how i see it... if you are determined to have the unreliable ARB (front or rear) wouldn't you rather have it in the front where it's not needed as much? and have a more solid detroit in the rear?

By p m on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 02:13 pm: Edit

front TT/rear DL, and send me your unreliable ARB.

peter

By hadaz on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Bill if you want to see or take a ride with a Disco with a rear Detroit jsut give me a call and I will let you see mine. I am open this weekend.

By lynden on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Isn't it recommended to beef up axles when going to DL? If not I might go that route instead of a TT? What is involved in installing a DL (not the procedure- just what needs to be upgraded)?
Lynden

By kyle on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Heavy rear axles andthe detroit and bearings

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 05:52 pm: Edit

Thanks for the offer, Allen. I will only agree to it if we meet off-road, however!

maybe some fun by the coves of saguaro lake where Seann & I went. Not too far from Ftn Hills at all. I'm conscripted to manual labor in the yard this weekend, but maybe a quick getaway next Sat or Sunday or thereabouts?

-Bill
P.S. I lost all saved email a while back & therefore lost your #. Try emailing me at
[email protected] and/or
[email protected]

By Cal on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Bluegill,
I have a good friend I wheel with here in Colorado who has a '91 blazer fullsize. He put a Dana 60 on the front and a G.M. corporate axle on the rear. The only locker option he had for the rear was a detroit. He has an ARB on the front. He likes the detroit off road but strongly dislikes it on the highway. It's squirly and somtimes hard to drive. I know it's not a disco but it weighs even more. He would have ARB's front and rear if it were available.

I really like the ARB I have because you can disengage it on the not so nasty part of the trail, causing less strain on the drivetrain in corners.
And, according to bill at GBR, if you do break an axle, it is less likely to cause damage to the diff whereas the detroit is certian to be damaged.

My fuel to the fire.
Cal

By Kyle on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 11:01 pm: Edit

I will say this again reeeeaaaallll slllllooooowwwwwwwwww. Iiiiiiffffff Yooooouuuuu Haaaaaaavvvvveeeeee aaaaaa Soooooofffffttttt Looooccccckkkkkeeerrrrrr tttthhhhhhhaaaatttt iiiiisssssss bbbiiiinnnnddddddiinnngggg aaannndddd maaaakkkiiinnggg noooiiisseeeesss ,THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT!!!!!! God damn I have no idea why that point is so hard to get acrost to people..If your locker is doing that and its still under the trac tech warranty get it repaired or replaced. Its that easy. If a guy is riding around with a soft locker giving him fits then its his own damn fault for not doing anything about it...

Kyle

By Kyle on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 11:04 pm: Edit

It can also become a handfull real fast if you drive it like its a sports car. You accelerate and it will stay locked.. Ofcourse , if you drive your Disco like that it wont be around long anyway.....


Kyle

By Scott Hayes (Scott_H) on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 12:49 pm: Edit

I have a question for ya, how does the detroit work? I tried to look it up on thier site and there really wasn't that much there. I understand it is locked by default, but how does it know when to unlock, or to re-lock?

Anyone?

By Kyle on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 12:53 pm: Edit

When one wheel overruns the other it unlocks it , provided you arent on the throttle.
When the one wheel over runs its like turning the other backwards in the unit. That is what unlocks it and you will hear the clicks...


Kyle

By Scott Hayes (Scott_H) on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 01:04 pm: Edit

but when I pull out of an intersection and make a right hand turn from a stop...I can still hear clicks, and I am accelerating. It appears to be unlocked.

By Scott Hayes (Scott_H) on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 01:06 pm: Edit

if this were the case, how would i be able to accelerate on to the freeway that has one of those 270% on ramps and you have to gain speed as you go around?

By Kyle on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 01:12 pm: Edit

The degree of acceleration that it takes to keep it locked really depends on how loose or tight the unit was est up on the line. They are set up by hand and all of them arent the same. Thats why you get some reports of banging and clunking. As far as your on ramp accelration , its probably locked up. A degree of flex in the axles abosrbs this somewhat but the truck will have a tendancy to want to go straight when you do that.


Kyle

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Box it off.... drive in a short straight line accelerating, then let off and pull it around a bit tight... straighten up and accelerate, let off and arc on around....

Or, pick a different route!


-L

By Scott Hayes (Scott_H) on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit

gotcha, thanks.

By Bruce on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 05:40 pm: Edit

I have TTs F&R. Why did I stay away from DL in rear, simply axle upgrades and cost. I got an extreme upgrade in traction utility and I could not justify the price of new axles for the rear. Then again, I don't rock climb since I live in swamp land. To each his own. Now then, if the DL setup did not smoke so many stock axles, then I would have a DL in the rear for sure.

By Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 05:45 pm: Edit

ARB front and rear is the way to go! I live in seattle, and get all the benefits of being locked at all 4 without the hassel of dismissing a detroits characteristics. I also have the benefit of an open 4 pinion carrier when my ARB's don't want to work. Also had a friend break an axle on the trail this weekend. Put a new one in and it was good as new, with a detroit, your SOL.

By p m on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:33 pm: Edit

ARB is especially beautiful when you lay down in mud or dirt trying to figure out where the goddamn air line chafed off. or need to take the pump apart to see why TF it ain't pumping shit anymore.

peter

By kyle on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Yes Peter , thats when you can bond with nature and truley apreciate everything that is the ARB locker..... lol

Kyle

By p m on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 08:25 pm: Edit

see, it takes more and more effort on my part to keep from putting an ARB in that rangie.

doesn't it suck when an ARB is a _cheap_ solution?

peter

By Kyle on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 08:30 pm: Edit

LOL , you should be able to find a ten spline used somewhere pretty cheap. LOL But it aint cheaper. Just postponing the inevitable..


Kyle

By p m on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 08:58 pm: Edit

well, with that VC'ed transfer case, it ain't going to be a killer, anyhow. will keep it for my kid.

sooner or later, the TT from the Disco will find its way into the rangie, to be replaced by a DL.

peter

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 10:50 am: Edit

>"ARB is especially beautiful when you lay down in mud or dirt trying to figure out where the goddamn air line chafed off. or need to take the pump apart to see why TF it ain't pumping shit anymore.

peter"

Agree with the possibility of above, even though it hasn't happened to me. But you know where ARB is even more especially beautiful? When you're using it to pull your brother out of trouble!


Ha ha - just like hemmorhoids, I will not go away.
I suggest a back-alley rumble between the ARB and Detroit crowd.

By p m on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:37 am: Edit

c'mon Blue, i could've pulled my brother out of his high-centers without any freakin locker!

hehehe

the beauty of truckhaven is that it is hard to get into some real bad trouble there. not impossible, but difficult. (save for the earthquakes)

when we go places where we _can_ get into trouble, i take my ***p, no ARB, thank you, just a cheap and noisy Detroit EZ.

peter

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:49 pm: Edit

LOL just pokin fun

By p m on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:50 pm: Edit

well, if i bought my rovers with ARB already installed, i doubt i would have them ripped out.

so i understand your feelings

peter

By Roverine on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Sheesh, and all I want is CDL ... (hehehe)

I should go to the "Foglight Installation" thread and sell those guys my fog lights ... I had put my bumper issue off for now though. Too many decisions -

Kim