By Wayne Smith on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Any suggestions on the best aftermarket track rod to replace the stock one. Mine bent very easily and I'm looking for alternatives. Is there anything available to lift the track rod so it is less likely to hit on rocks, etc.
Regards Wayne

By Frode Hübertz Haaland (Discofrode) on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Try Sumo bars.
You can jack your Disco on them!
There was this ad and also a short "shopwindow" article in LRe...last month I think.
Guess there's other brands as well.
Frode

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 09:15 am: Edit

I have the Rovertym set up and I like it. Much stronger then stock but, I have seen one bend.

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 10:15 am: Edit

I think the Rovertym links are the best you can get. Like Eric , I was there when that one got bent , in all fairness , a stock one would have folded up like a lawn chair under the same force. I still recomend them over any others...

Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 10:49 am: Edit

Dan Bars.

1.5in hardened cad plated steel sleeves for your stockers.

Also rockware makes an offset track rod which would do what you want. www.rockware.net

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:11 am: Edit

That offset rod is a POS man. Have you really looked at that thing ?


Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:23 am: Edit

Why do you say that?

It is pre bent which I don't like but . . .

I dunno, whats your beef with it?

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

The bend , it makes it weak....


Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:45 am: Edit

Ya But you hit it less.

eh.

I think SG or ECR has the strongest solution but then you lose clearance.

Then there is the whole do you make it rigid steel or do you use steel that "bounces back" if you sleeve or replace.

Anything is better than stock.

I am thinking about 7/8in internal diameter thick wall chomo cut to lengths would be cheap and work fine for 95% of the market.

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:51 am: Edit

well Ron , you know I am quick to go all out bashing something if I think its bullshit. I think Johns links are the best you can get. They actually simplify the steering arrangment and they provide quite allot of protection. The $G sollution is over complicated and adds more parts to the truck. The stainless links are a bit springy and I know from being there that it takes quite allot to bend them a little. Not perfect by any means but we aint living in aperfect world. Chromoly is also some funny stuff to work with. John can add the technicall shit here but it looses its good characteristics if not worked in a certain way. Doing race car cages with it is a pain in the ass , its nice and light but you cant work it like regular ole steel , if you do it gets brittle.... as I said , John can clear that up , he is the rocket scientist in that arena..

kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:55 am: Edit

All I am saying is take 7/8 I.D. thick wall chromo and cut it to lenght and sleeve the stockers. You would not even have to weld it.

Ron

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:02 pm: Edit

If you want to make your own. These guys have good deals on 1026 DOM tubing and you can also get links made to order from them.

Tubing:
http://www.spidertrax.com/hardware_tbd.htm

Custom links.
http://www.spidertrax.com/hardware_lk.htm


Anyone know what the thread pitch/count is on a Rover TRE ( tie rod end)?

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:06 pm: Edit

The thing I like about a solid bar is that nothing will not bend, dont care what it is, even my SS bars with all the spring will bend, but any tube even CM once it bends you stretch the side walls and have reduced its life, kink it it's gone. With a solid bar you can just re set your toe in and drive with no worries, finish your wheeling and drive home, then if you want you can straighten it and it looks pretty again. But you can get home. Mine has a slight bend in it(drag link) but its of no consequence as its ready to go. Not welding your sleeve on, well try it and see what we learn. Welding on CM does crystalize the welded area, but its on the ends so no harm as I see it.

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Of course sleeving the stockers with unwelded tubes should be a pain as far as attaching steering dampeners solid and in one position

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:13 pm: Edit

nice link Oldscout - thanks.

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Yeah , thats the advice I gave to the "Bendee" a few week ends ago. I dont see that it was comprimised at all... I just have a thing for stainless....lol


Kyle

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:24 pm: Edit

11/16" SAE threads

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:27 pm: Edit

can't you just shave off the stock dampner mount on the tie rod and sleeve the entire length? and simply sleeve the entire length of the drag link? Then re-clamp relocated dampner to sleeved drag link?

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:29 pm: Edit

John,

You just make the drag link sleeve shorter and mount the relocate to the stock part and like BG says shave off the stock mounts on the track rod and sleeve the whole thing.

Sleeves will spin over as well which is kinda cool. Dan bars have grease nipples to facilitate it as well.

Your are better no doubt but my idea is cheaper.

Ron

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:30 pm: Edit

If the sleeve isnt welded it will rotate wont it? and that rotates the dampener wont it? Maybe it will clamp tight enough, I dont know.

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit

Oh my , sleeving sucks for quite a few reasons , some were addressed by John already. When you do something to the truck do it so it doesnt have to be done again... Ir atleast try like hell... That sleeve shit traps water and debris and will rust internally,,,etc etc....Just get the good links and be done with it..


Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:36 pm: Edit

That sleeve shit traps water and debris and will rust internally,,,etc etc...

Thats why you pack the sucker with wheel bearing grease and in part the reason for the grease nipple on Dan bars.

Like I said. I can probably sleeve both for $20 in metal or pay $80 for dan bars and have them be strong enough to never break (I am guessing a tie rod end would fail first). And if they do break it is only another piece of metal for $10.

Like I said, all a price issue. I support cheap bastards

Ron

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:38 pm: Edit

John,

You clamp the damper to the stock part and make the sleeve short enough to allow for it.

Or

You can retrofit a D90 mount ot the one end of the link and fit the D90/RR style drop arm joint and sleeve the whole thing.

Ron

When we get the last roll of film developed I can show everyone a few pics of the dan bar install.

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Lol,Cheap Ron, just do it..its your $20

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:42 pm: Edit

I know man

I wish I could afford the best (your stuff) but I have a lot of rovers to support

I am still getting the drag link for Alyssa's truck from you when you get the next batch done but the rest of my POSes will be happy with their sleeves

Ron

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Of course when you sleeve the tie rod, its 2 pieces there so you can still adjust your toe in...so you have the weak link...opps

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Ya, but I am not going to hit that spot

Ron

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:46 pm: Edit

>"If the sleeve isnt welded it will rotate wont it? and that rotates the dampener wont it?"

Hmmm...good point John. I didn't think that part all the way through now, did I?

With Ron's plan of stopping sleeve short to allow you to clamp onto stock drag link, you won't get the rotate issue, but you're not fully sleeved...have to think about that one awhile...

What's the OD of your stainless drag link, John?

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:53 pm: Edit

but you're
not fully sleeved.

The unsleeved part is the highest part right by the drop arm.

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Ron , and look at the cluster you are creating nuder the truck. The good links are sleak strong and simple. Simpliity is key....

Kyle

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:59 pm: Edit

yeah - lookin at the dampner, I guess it is long enough to extend to steer box drop arm (see Eric's rig on main page of dweb). The point is that the spot where sleeve ends is the weak point, like with the short adjustment section on tie rod as mentioned before:

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:00 pm: Edit

The unsleeved part will be behind the pumpkin, right at the threaded adjusting short sleeve..its just a weak point there, but for $20...you can fix often and save money...lol. Then again you can do it one time and forget.

Blue...1 1/4" dia. alloy

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

stock sucks,
sleeved is better,
complete replacement with upgrade is better yet,
never leaving the mall is best.

-Another cheap bastard

By John on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Its embarrasing to bend a link on a mall speed bump..lol. I did wipe out a 12 quart deep sump oil pan once on a 427 mustang on a speedbump in a mall once..its embarrasing.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:09 pm: Edit

12 qts - lovely! what a mess

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:10 pm: Edit

Ok blue and Ron , lets think about your sollution for a moment. I never like to think of things like they are gonna work like a fuckin charm. I like to think about whats the worst that can happen if they dont. If you lawn chair your sleeved setup in BFE nowhere you are pretty much fucked. When you straighten it its probably gonna crack and even if you do get it trackin right it wont be for long all the way up until it breaks completely and is useless. With the good links its concievable you could lawn chair one as well. You biggest problem there would be finding some sort of fixture to hold the bastard still while you sterelized yourself trying to straighten it enough to keep on keepin on. ONce you got it back on its pretty god damned close to being as strong as it was in the first place. Thinking about that whole sleeved thing and it going bad is like glass in my brain...


Kyle

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 01:21 pm: Edit

LOL , A mess is 6 quarts . 12 quarts is an ecological dissaster. YOu , and the event however get named more names if your filter happens to blow off while staged and waiting for the green , covering the whole pad with said 12 quarts....lol not a pretty site.....

Kyle

By my96disco (Trevorh) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Ron, Quick Question.

Where can you pick up the Dan Bars for $80.00? I am interested in them. You can leave message here or contact me off board of you like.

Thanks

Trevor

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Doh - I would have liked to have seen that one Kyle ! - where was that, Capitol?

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Kyle,

I "lawnchaired" the stocker at MAR. I sleeved it with the dan bar I carried and it was good to go.

I have pics. Need to get them developed.

I would say the vast majority of track rod failures are in the middle not on the adjuster end. Plus the aduster is short and has the threaded part inside so less to bend.

The other thing you have to realize is that you won't "lawnchair" one if you sleeve it right. 1/4" thick chromo over the stocker or even 1/4" mild steel is not easy to bend let alone "lawnchair" All you have to do is keep it sort of strait and it will get you home even if you do bend it (which should take delibret abuse or just dumb luck).

I mean the Dan Bars weigh like 20lbs, you telling me you think that is a break point more than the small tie rod ends? You can jack the whole front of the truck up and the suckers don't even bend a little. Johns will flex a little but it is the don't flinch v bend a little arguement again.

Like everything else ideally you will carry spares and when I replace the rod ends on the stocker on the Disco those ends will go in the oh sh** box. As will the stock drag link.

Like I said, a cheap good option at least for me.

Ron

PS works great on Series trucks as well.

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Anyone want a set?

I am going to buy 20ft of it from that place scout dude mentioned.

I will post needed lengths tomorrow.

Ron

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Trevor.

MJ Lee.

Only problem is they are going to be about $70 in shipping as MJ Lee is UK based. I am going to try to make my own and will have them available shortly if anyone wants a set. they should be price competitive with everything else on the market for the cheap bastards out there.

Ron

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Hey Ron. Your going to need the LH and RH taps for the tube. I get mine from Victor Machinery
http://www.victornet.com

They do have the 11/16 taps ,but what is the tread count?

BTW there free catalog is first rate!

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Robert,

I am just going to make sleeves for the stockers.

No tap needed.

Ron

By my96disco (Trevorh) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Ron,

Keep me posted thanks. Are you going to install the grease nipple as on the Dan bars?

Thanks

Trevor

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:45 pm: Edit

The other reason I am making sleeves is because the series links are weird threads and I wish to use them on my series as well.

Ron

By Steve (Steve2) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:46 pm: Edit

ron

if i read right - then you are going to get sleeves for the stock units? i'd be game - let me know

thanks
steve

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Yup,

Thats the plan. My local steel supplier is working on it now.

I will have to get it in mill lengths (24ft) so I will have a few extra sets to sell off.

I will be able to put on grease nipples if you want. Personally I don't it is necessary (just use a lot of wheel bearing grease during install) but I can do that.

Ron

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Oh,

If anyone with a DII wants a set give me a shout and I will tell you where/what to measure.

Ron

evilfij (at) yahoo.com

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

Bill , it was MIR . You are not a very popular guy after that.... LOL
Ron , I am talking some folding once the damn sheathing portion is on. You are a fool if you dont think worst case. The problem is that once it starts its all down hill from there with tubing. With the bar the ratio is much lower. You buckle a sleeved link and you got serious issues. You buckle one of those solid rods and you simply got a pain in the ass. Neither is fun but the solid links will recover better.... I have a clip somewhere of what it takes to bend a rovertym link. It will make you shudder to watch it....lol

Kyle

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:16 pm: Edit

KYLE it's not one of Johns but :



http://www.rockstomper.com/catalog/steering/rockrods/rockrod.htm

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Kyle,

what percentage of drag link failures are "folds" v bends. I pushed mine back to the dif and it only bent no folds.

I am 100% confindent that the total failure rate on a sleeved link is near zero. Sure if you hit a tree stump at 30mph it will bend and might even fold.

Think about it. How much force does it take to fold a 1/4" thick alloy steel tube? I am willing to bet it is more than the sheer force for a tie rod end. There is not much there on the ends.

Like I SAID. If you want the best get Rovertym or similar. If you want something that will work sleeve the suckers with 1/4" and save some money for an RTE bumper or winch or whatever else you want to buy.

People have been doing it since the dawn of time.

You know darn well that the vast majority of people reading this are happily tooling around with stock links and that damper hanging down behind the axle cause they don't want to spend $300 for the new links and relocation kit and another $70 for a new damper.

I also know that a lot of them will have issues with it in the future if they go wheeling enough.

The way I look at it if they try it my way they can solve their problems for less $$$.

I am not trying to compete with anyone I just have to buy 24ft and can't use it all so I thought I would try to help some people out and give them another option. Just like the rear springs in the front thing. Most people don't have an unlimited money tree for disco mods so I try to point out other options when they are available.

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Robert , let me pick that truck up adn drop it on the tierod from about a foot up. Then tell me whos it is..... My motto "Shit happens be prepared"


Kyle

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Yes Ron , I know people have been doing it and I have done it myself in the past. I did it because I didnt know any better and thought it to be kick ass,,,,lol
Also , "Percentages" dont mean allot when it comes to shit happening. You should know this already. Shit can happen in any way shape or form at any time... And you will certainly never get the scenario robert there is displaying. How many of you guys have run up on the "Smooth jack up obstacle" ??

Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 03:58 pm: Edit

It is all about lessening the chance of shit and the extent of the shit when it happens on a cost benefit analysis basis

Ron

By Kyle on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 04:17 pm: Edit

LOL , ,I see , I like that statemnt , I gotta give you that....

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 04:41 pm: Edit

kyle, the video does not lie? hehe,, hope i did a good job. i need a clip of that.. private viewing only maybe?

hehehehe

ron's last statement is pretty true, you have to weigh price for performance. ideally you could use some high tech space age alloy that doesnt bend when you ram it into a rock,, instead it transform the enrgy into heat and melts thru the rock... but that would cost too much, just like ronnie said.

rd
still running stock ;l

By p m on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Ron,

please count me in for two (one for disco1, one for rangie).

Kyle,
if you drop the truck on the super kick ass 4" in diameter solid chromemoly steel tie rod, from a foot above whatever you put inder the tie rod, you will break off the knuckles' ends.

whatever breaks, it better be tie rod.

peter

By Ron on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 01:25 pm: Edit

UPDATE

Ok,

That place scout guy posted has really good prices on steel so you should go to them as my local guy can't touch it.

As promised. The track rod (aka Tie rod) should be 44 3/4" This is the length of the DAN Bar I have in my living room.

The drag link will depend on whether you want to leave room for the relocation kit or not. If you don't you have to leave it in the stock location or convert to a D90 style rod end with a D90/RR drop are ball joint.

PLEASE DON'T order it yet as I have to double check the measurements (the disco is getting T-case work and should be back tonight and I will check then)

It looks like for cut to length pieces of raw steel cost will be ~$40 for both sleeves.

If there is demand for drilled, tapped for grease fitting and painted sleeves I can do that but to be honest so can YOU.

Will have final info tomorrow on what is needed etc.

Ron

By Tom P. on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Ron,

Bring details to the Trials.

Tom P.

By Ron on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 01:45 pm: Edit

10-4

Ron

By George Bush on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Do you handle HumVee rods? And price out 25,000 units for the trucks I own.

By Ron on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 02:03 pm: Edit

LOL

Well its a govt. contract so say 1800 a set times 25000

$45,000,000.00

Ron

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Can you have them all done by Monday? Were sending some rock climbing in a certain desert later in the week.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Eric - rock climbing in what desert? Are you personally climbing, or is the Disco doin the work for you?

By Kyle on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 02:25 pm: Edit

He meant the Hummers.... and instead of climbing the rock I think it may just be turned into desert as well to make it easier.

kyle

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Was talking about the HumVees on that government contract. Thinking about driving out west though since I have never been.. Sorry, had to get some work done in the middle of me posting so yes Kyle is right that is what I meant..

By George Bush on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Ron,Can you price in pesos?

By Ron on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Add two zeros.

Ron