By Mike on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 05:41 pm: Edit

have heard it is possible to winch using a jack when your stuck. How is this done? Are there any light weight ropes or straps strong enough to winch with?

Winchless Owner

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 05:46 pm: Edit

http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/hilift_jack.htm

That'll tell ya what ya need to know.

By PerroneFord on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Its not easy man! I've set up my jack to do it (you have to modify it a bit) but it is a LOT of work. If you can POSSIBLY see your way into getting a winch, you should.

If you really want to do this, get a jackmate from Expedition Exchange. It'll make things a lot easier. Also two lengths of 3/8" hi-test chain.

-P

By Mike B. on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 09:53 pm: Edit

Don't use a rope and a Hi-Lift jack. The Hi-Lift Jack has about 4 foot of pull and a rope will have at least 6' of stretch (a 2" tow strap typically will stretch 1/2 of it's length). You will be at the end of the jack before you even get the rope stretched tight.

Thanks,
Mike B.

By Barry on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 10:07 pm: Edit

Unless the rope is Amsteel-Blue.

By Mike B. on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Good point.

Can you tie a knot in Amsteel-Blue? If so, will any knot do (say like a bowline), or do you have to do something special? The thought here would be to remove the knot when done without doing any permanent damage to the rope.

Thanks,
Mike B.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 08:30 am: Edit

You can knot the Amsteel or any UHMWPE rope, but any knot reduces a ropes strength by approx 50% - so be careful.

Recently when I broke my Masterpull, I used a clove hitch for the rest of the weekend, and was fine, but did make sure to resplice it correctly when I got back. The splice is just a two-tuck, so is not difficult, but the rope has to be all the way off the drum to do it.

By Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 10:25 am: Edit

Bill, when it broke, was there any backlash?

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 10:36 am: Edit

Dean - nope, none at all - it just dropped to the ground.

Later that night, a POS tow point gave way on a guys RR I was winching and even though there was a 3/4" shackle and the big yellow hook on the Masterpull it still dropped right down.

By Barry on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 11:54 am: Edit

Amsteel-Blue 3/8" rope has a minimum strength listed as 18,401 Lbs. Some knots will reduce rope strength by 50%.

My fully provisioned DSII tips the scales at 6000 Lbs. How much faith would I place in a 9,000 Lb. rope? Depends on how I feel about the history of that particular rope. Any rope can be severely overloaded or shock loaded in use without breaking. Trouble is, damage and loss of strength can occur without visible signs.

I do like the UHMWPE in that it does not store lethal energy like wire rope.

By Clint on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Bill,
why did the rope break and where?
Was it at the eye?

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Instead of me rehashing the whole thing - it was a looong thread - search under "Amsteel" and "Amsteel Breakage"


Suffice it to say it was due to a really wacky pull and a cheap POS Warn fairlead

By Rich Lee on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 11:42 pm: Edit

Hi Mike,

Bill Burke's article is a good place to start. In the
past year have "winched" my Disco twice with a 4' High
Lift. The first time up a very steep, rutted hill with
a loose soil edge leading to a "death drop". I
couldn't back down safely as the rear end had already
slid too far toward the edge. The Jack worked fine,
but you really need to have someone in the vehicle to
control/cajole it along with engine & steering. With a
winch, you could both drive and work the winch via the
remote all by your lonesome, something you can't do
with either a High Lift or one of the newer cable
winches.

The second pull occured in axle-deep mud, as thick as
potter's clay. I had to "Jack" the truck about 60'
back up a twisty hill, with several re-sets of my
anchor to different trees. Took us almost 2 hours

I also used it to tension a 150' "tyrolealn traverse"
(zip line) at my kids' school fair. Lastly, this
Sunday I used it to right some kid's Toyota Tacoma 4x4
that had rolled onto it's side after he blew a pass on
a wet, twisty mountain road.

I am currently teaching in a C.E.R.T course (Community
Emergency Response Team) for FEMA in our local
community and have offered "High Lift 101" as an
optional course extension. It is a wonderful tool!
The more you use it, the better you get at it, and the
more you will also apreciate the day when you do get a
winch (still waiting for that day).

If you are going to winch with a High Lift, you will
need at least all of the items in Bill's article. I do
not use a tree strap but simply wrap a tow strap
around the tree many times to adjust the end lengths
(and reduce stretch).

Two items I would add to improve safety and efficiency
of jack-winching are two lengths of short "Grabber"
chains.

One is the "Holding Chain", it is 2 feet long with a
chain grab hook on one end and clevis link on the
other. Remove the base plate of the High Lift Jack
(Mine is held in place with a spring-retained clevis
pin)and attach this chain via the clevis link to the
last hole in the jack. Use either the clevis pin or a
grade-8 bolt & nut.

The other is a "Grabbing Loop" made with 2 feet of
chain with grab hooks on each end. This loops over the
lifting jaw of the jack and grabs itself just behind
the other grab hook. The free grab hook then grabs
your "pulling chain" (the long one attached to either
your vehicle or your anchor) and pulls it in as you
jack along.

Now each time you've pulled as far as you can with the
jack, you hook the Holding Chain onto your Pulling
Chain to hold it in place under load. You then re-set
the lifting jaw to the base of the jack, re-grab the
Pulling Chain( just behind the hook of the Holding
Chain) with the free hook on the Grabbing Loop and
jack again.

The advantage of this system is that the vehicle (or
whatever you are pulling) is constantly held under
tension by the jacking system and is less likely to
slip backwards when you reset the jack for another
pull. You also don't have to take-in nearly as much
slack in the system with each pull.

For extra safety, clip a large threaded "Quick Link"
(3/8" to 1/2" link thickness) through the hole beneath
the lifting jaw, and pull the free loop of the
Grabbing Loop through it before you slip it over the
lifting jaw. This will reduce the risk of the Grabbing
Loop slipping off the lifting jaw of the jack.

Also (opposite of Bill Burke's text, but like his
picture of the snow-stuck Rangie), I set and work the
jack from a safe distance at the Anchor end (base
facing the vehicle, top shackled to anchor strap and
pulling chain affixed to the vehicle) if I have
someone trying to drive the vehicle out at the same
time or if I am righting an overturned vehicle.

Remember, always wear gloves and still re-chock or
brace the vehicle as you pull it along.

This is one area where I do know Jack

Good Luck

Rich

By Tom P. on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 09:39 am: Edit

Excellent post Rich! The Holding Chain is a VERY nice addition. I guess I'll be picking up some more chain...

Tom Proctor
96 Disco