By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 11:37 am: Edit

Thinking out loud here.

I put on my 3" RTE springs and 235/85s this weekend and I'm now look for some of my lost castor.

The two fixes I have been looking at are:
1. Unbolting the swivel ball and moving it from 12:00 o clock to 1:00 o clock. Seems way to easy, why won't this work?


2. Using the plasma cutter to remove the radius arm brackets from the axle, then twist the axle and re-weld.

Anyone done it this way?

By Scott Bowden (Scott_Bowden) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:18 pm: Edit

When you change the radius arm brackets you might correct the castor but will mess up the pinion angle. Better to have the correct pinion angle than castor angle
Also, the swivel ball bolts will change it 60 degrees or so (360/# of bolts). You would need to elongate the bolt holes around the radius and put shims in the holes to maintain alignment

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Good Steering before vibs any day! I have a DC free shaft from this shop anyway!
http://www.highangledriveline.com/

By John on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:45 pm: Edit

Measure your castor(existing)angle, work the trig on amt. to elongate the holes to get normal castor angle, a 12:00 to 1:00 move sounds too much, the new gap behind the bolts then need to be filled in as the torque of the wheel will spin the hub back regardless how tight the bolts are. This is the best way.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Thanks John, Anyone know what the stock castor angle is?

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Pull it up on a laser machine and you can find out what you need to do in just a few minutes...
Rotating the whole axle is a bad idea.

Kyle

By PerroneFord on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

I met someone who installed a custom 4" lift and cut and re-welded the axles. This guy was a fabricator of EXCELLENT skills and the truck looked and drove like stock.

If you've got the skills and can do the math, have at it. Otherwise, I'd look for a different solution.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Perrone:
Fab skills is not a problem. A good buddy works as a chief of design and engineering at:
http://www.llnl.gov/
He is a nuclear grade welder and an ASME welding inspector. He knows nothing about cars but find my projects interesting.

Kyle: Please enlighten me as too why?

By John on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:37 pm: Edit

The bolt circle radius is one leg of the triangle, the angle you want to rotate is the angle of the triangle, Tangent of the desired angle to rotate(known)=opposite side(amt to elongate hole,unknown) divided by the adjacent side(bolt circle radius,known) which then becomes a formula of Tangent of the desired angle(known) times the bolt circle radius(known)=opposite side(amt. to elongate hole). There is a minute error in this formula that someone may catch but is to minimal to worry about. Familiar with trig tables? If so you are there.

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:39 pm: Edit

The housing itself is actually at an ok angle for a DC shaft. If you point that pinion down and the angle goes away from zero , vibs begin. I dont care what anyone says about not feeling them they are there because there is not another joint to cancel them. Correcting the swivel balls as John suggests is the easiest and most effective way to go about it. Ofcourse cutting the tubes is an option if you want to get that involved...


Kyle

By John on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Rotate the whole axle and you have the diff angle problem, do the swivels and no diff angle problems(minor error in diff angle). Balls are ultimately easier(Less work).IMO

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 01:48 pm: Edit

I just ordered a new cobalt drill and now need some of the special grease. Here are the alignment specs if any one was in the need:

Many thanks Alldata, the dam $90.00 Rover Shop manual doesn't have them!

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Oldscout, what's the link to that Alldata source?

Thanks,
Blue

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Sorry Blue it's a screen shot from there software.
www.alldata.com

By JCC on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 08:41 pm: Edit

When you lose castor what happens?

By Kyle on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Wondering..... "Hunting"

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 11:20 pm: Edit

when you loose castor it wants to wonder back and forth as you drive down the highway... and it likes to dive to one side or the other when you hit a bump or the brakes. it's not that bad if you are expecting it.. but i dont loan my truck out to anyone.

rd

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 10:01 am: Edit

I wonder if you guys mean wander.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 11:05 am: Edit

i didn't know there was two words, asshole.

rd

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 11:33 am: Edit

no problem chimp

shuddup

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 11:53 am: Edit

Ahh, the resident speller has returned..

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 02:20 pm: Edit

you too, shuddup

didn't want JC to think that loss of castor will get him wondering about hunting...

By Scott (Scott_Bowden) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 08:34 am: Edit

Robert Mann,
Please let us know what modification/changes you do to get your corrected angles.
Thank you,
Scott

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 11:18 am: Edit

No problem Scott.

The game plan is to tap the old hole in the swivel housing and then screw plugs (grade 8 cut offs) into the holes. The plugs will then be TIG welded in and new pattern will be drilled.

I just ordered all the new gaskets/seals/grease from Nathan, and I will get to it when the parts arrive.

By John on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 12:06 pm: Edit

When you weld that forged steel and grade 8 bolts(higher carbon content)together it may end up hard as glass, then drilling with that cobalt may be quite the chore...just an opinion but good luck.

By Kyle on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit

Hmmm , still overdoing it I think Robert. We had a discussion here somewhere about it awhile back. Its really not all that hard...

Kyle

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 12:54 pm: Edit

yeah, i been thinking about this more. it sure would be nice to get the swivels balls without any holes drilled..

my problem is that i dont know what the inside of these balls look like, i suspect it is not symetrical all the way around. or in other words, there is something in the ball that would prevent someone from just rotating the whole thing 15degrees and drilling all new holes.

damn i need to see some balls!
-rd

By John Lee on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 12:56 pm: Edit

I realize that this thread is about methods of correcting the caster lost on a lifted vehicle, but have you considered fitting a Truetrac front diff instead of going through all of this headache?

The TT makes the vehicle want to steer very straight. On a non-lifted vehicle, the steering feels heavier than on stock. On a lifted vehicle, the steering feels very close to a stock vehicle's steering.

Fitting a TT front diff will take care of your wandering problems. The TT is also a much stronger diff than your factory open diff. The TT will also give you more traction on the trails. I also think fitting a TT is simpler than doing all of this chopping.

Just another option to consider.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 01:12 pm: Edit

John Lee I'm not a big fan of limted slips and ARB's have done me well for years of ruff service. Using a LS to fix the lack of caster is just a poor mans patch IMO. No chopping just some drilling.

When I went SOA on my Scout and had to use a carbon arc to gouge off the "C"s on the ends of the axle. That process was far more complex than this method on a rover front axle.

By John Lee on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Robert,

Yeah, if you're an ARB fan, the front TT won't work for you. It's kinda weird having a TT front and an ARB rear. Kind of like white wine and red meat.