By sg on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 11:43 am: Edit

I see on the advertisements for these things that you have to drill holes in your rear door - yikes!
I worry about rust starting - any opinions - who's done it and how easy was it - the ones I was looking are were on rover connection.

By anonymous on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Aluminum doesn't rust.

By John Lee on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

I installed the ladder on Han's D2 and did a short write-up of it:

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/disco2laddernew.htm

While the ladder install is still easy without a rivnut tool, the job would be a piece of cake if you had a rivnut tool. JC Whitney sells rivnut tools for cheap. Alternatively, you might try drilling the holes and then asking your local Land Rover dealer to squish the rivnuts for you. My local Land Rover dealer did this for me for free when I was installing the doggie guard on my Disco.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit

>>Aluminum doesn't rust


when aluminum surfaces are exposed to the atmosphere , a thin invisible oxide skin forms immediately which protects the metal from further oxidation. this self protecting characteristic gives aluminum it's high resistance to corrosion. unless exposed to some substance or condition which destroys this protective oxide coating, the metal remains protected against corrosion. aluminum is highly resistant to weathering, even in industrial atmospheres. it is also corrosion resistant to many acids. Alkalis are among the few substances that attack the oxide skin and therefore are corrosive to aluminum. although the metal can safely be used in the presence of certain mild alkalis with the aid of inhibitors, in general, direct contact with alkaline substances should be avoided. direct contact with certain other metals should be avoided in the presence of an electrolyte; otherwise galvanic corrosion of the aluminum may take place in the vicinity of the contact area. where other metals must be fastened to aluminum, the use of bituminous paint coating or insulating tape is recommended.

By anonymous on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 03:29 pm: Edit

Aluminum cannot form ferrous oxide (rust)

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 03:47 pm: Edit

don't need ferrous minerals involved to oxidize.

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:01 pm: Edit

wait, is it ferrous? or ferric oxide?
i get them confused...

By Kevin D on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Anyone? Bueller?

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:31 pm: Edit

ahhhh...bear with me - I'm a geologist so I naturally associate daily life with minerals.

My point was that you don't necessarily need iron, or Fe (from the latin Ferrum) to oxide a metal. Ferric and ferrous are just variations of the root word Ferrum. Ferrous minerals are minerals that contain iron (among other things).

Rust, or iron oxide (Fe2O3) is just the most common oxidation process we observe. It is the combination of iron with atmospheric oxygen. "Rusting" is a redox reaction (meaning an oxidation-reduction reaction), where one reactant is oxidized (loses electron(s)) and the other reactant is reduced (gains electron(s)). When iron rusts, it is being oxidized by oxygen.

Anybody know what complex redox reaction going on in everyone's Disco that does NOT involve atmospheric oxygen? I have a fascinating on-board chemical experiment going on right now that is directly related to a non-atmospheric redox reaction on-board the Disco.

yes, would apply here...

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:39 pm: Edit

you playing with electrons again under the hood???

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:41 pm: Edit

Yeah - anyone know what redox reaction I'm talkin about? I have an interesting variation of it going on right now. It's caused me some problems recently, but now that I understand it, I kind of respect it....

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:45 pm: Edit

yeah, well i dont like the word "rust". it is missleading.

hmm... isn't the dashboared evaporating?

rd

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:45 pm: Edit

yes, one gives and the other one takes....
LOL

By ken on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Corrosion build up on your battery posts?

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Ken - very close. I'll have to contemplate that a bit, but I think the corrosion build-up must involve atmospheric O2. What I'm talking about is the actual production of electricity within a lead storage battery. Not exclusive to Disco per se, but it's a battery example.

What I've done is actually electroplated by main positive battery lead with copper atoms from the many accessory wires I have connected to my damn battery. Lots of gunk has built up in the process, and I developed a bad contact. I scrubbed everything off last night, and beneath all the gunk I found a shiny, copper-plated positive lead (actually the part at the end of the lead that clamps onto the battery terminal is now perfectly plated with copper). No problems with the copper coating - copper is extremely conductive. It was the gunk that built up in the process that was messin with me.

I entered an experiment in the junior high science fair when I was in 4th grade - I set up a copper plating machine that transferred copper atoms from a donating hunk of copper to a receiving piece of metal. I used a 6-volt battery to provide a current through a conductive solution. I copper-plated all my Dad's tools. He still has some of the screwdrivers. Exact same thing going on with my Disco battery over 20 years later. I've always been a nerd when it comes to shit at the atomic level and below...

By drbuck on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Sounds like an interesting experiment...I guess all of our land rovers are an experiment of one kind or another.

The reaction that I thought you were talking about was the one occurring in our catalytic convertors were nitrogen oxides (NOx) are reduced to nitrogen by palladium, platinum and rhodium metals supported in the convertor which then oxidize the hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust gases to carbon dioxide and water. Silly me!

Here goes my memory of inorganic chemistry...Ferrous is used to describe compounds containing iron and thus FeO would be called Ferrous oxide. Fe2O3 could also be called Ferrous oxide but is more accurately described as Ferric oxide. Since Ferric refers to iron in the higher valencies (eg. trivalent). Rust on the other hand is the hydrated verious ferric oxide...Fe2O3(3H2O)

drbuck

PS. Bluegill...nerds in land rovers are still cool...I hope!

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 05:54 pm: Edit

great,

now when people do a google search looking for structures of the hydrated ferric oxide, discoweb will pop. LOL
that would be really something.

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Yes, silly you! LOL Good point about the cat converters. I've got batteries on the mind since mine died the other day. Also have clutch on the mind since that just died in the other car, but not much chem goin on there - just brittle failure of tired old cable (oxidized cable?....hmmmmm....). I'm sure when my cats go south and I can't pass emissions I will be enamored with the chemistry of the cat converter! I'll bet I could make up a palladium sandwich and pass emissions, though.

I believe ferrous is a 2 valence and ferric is a three, but don't quote me since I spent most of chemistry class staring at the cleavage of the coed next to me. The best education is that which you experience on your own terms.

By Ho Chung (Ho) on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 06:45 pm: Edit

hehehe, experimental is the way to go, especially with nice lab partners. LOL