Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	NRP / Hi Allen	1		04/04 06:39am

By John Kruger on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:50 am: Edit

In an attempt to get my cats replaced due to failure, my 97 Disco XD has 57k miles. LRNA has determined that the cats failed due to outside influences. ie.. offroading. There are have been small dents in the cats since I purchase the truck over a year ago, it is in the past few months that this problem has occured. Granted, the impact to the cats may have caused them to fail. But if the truck is design for offroad use, should not the components support the design?

I have asked for the LRNA reps decision in writing.

any comments?

By joey on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:04 am: Edit

don't forget, FORD now owns Land Rover :-)

By Bill Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:22 am: Edit

and condomns are not made for sex

By mrbieler on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:46 am: Edit

No offense, but you need to understand your vehicles design weaknesses when you off-road. The cats are one of them.

Not aware of any manufacturers of STREET vehicles that will warranty all damage from off-road usage. Parts breakage can often be covered, but smashing things up usually isn't. Once you hit the dirt, they can't control the stupid things we do to our trucks. Good luck finding an off-the-shelf mass production street legal vehicle that is bullet proof.

As a side note, if you look at the Bilstein web site, you will see that off-roading voids the life time shock warranty. And these guys market their shocks to hard core off-roaders...

By Ron on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:56 am: Edit

Find another dealer, some enforce that other change it no questions asked. If you go in there looking at DIIs your odds of getting it replaced free go way up.

Ron

By John Kruger on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 06:36 am: Edit

The service rep misinformed me. He stated the LRNA rep declined the fix, yet the LRNA rep cancelled his appointment and has not seen my truck yet. What a load of s**t!

I may look for another dealership, but the next nearest one is 4 1/2 hours away...

By Rob on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 06:49 am: Edit

What exactally is your beef? You damaged the part on your vehicle didn't you? It is kind of like breaking an axel off roading. It's going to happend and it's your fault! If you dent your body panels up do you expect LRNA to fix the damage? I hate to say it, but you are liable in this case. LRNA is not responsible for damage that occured off road.

By nadim on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 06:55 am: Edit

The best thing to do john is to crawl under your disco, and see where your low points amnd vulnerable areas are. EVERY SINGLE 4X4 has these points, and it is up to the driver to know where they are and how to manouvre off road in order to save them. moreover, your XD already comes with protection, so stop nagging, take a crawl under the XD, and see what is where...or get a skid plate for it if you still decide to stay ignorant.
no offence intended!

By Ben There on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 07:07 am: Edit

John;

Most likely the best thing to do is to forget the dealer and get some replacement cats yourself. Go to the Summit Racing Site at http://www.summitracing.com, then go to the exhaust section and look up cats. They have a SS cat that will fit your truck and the price is under $70 each. They work as well or better than the OEM cat and are WAY CHEAPER to purchase. Lots of guys on the RN BBS run these and no complaints. I know the situation with the dealer sucks, but hey, thet are crooks anyway.

By John Kruger on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 07:09 am: Edit

No offence taken, I enjoy the comments, and the lurkers do too.

I do know my truck very well, and its capabilities. I took very good care of my last disco, when I sold it at 215k miles it was still going strong. I don't even have much of a problem with the denial of the warranty, I already have the replacement parts. But when the service rep tells me my truck is not designed for offroad use, then lies to me, I get upset. He should be fully aware of this vehicles offroad abilities, and design. Yes, most of these trucks are used as status symbols and grocery getters, yet they are considered the Best 4x4xfar..and have an image as such.


on a side note: The cats are not a low point on the vehicle, but some how managed to get some quarter size dings in them.

By Bill Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 07:11 am: Edit

Nadim: again, no offense intended, but here in the USA the lawyers run the country. That is why the first response from the typical American individual and typical organization is to deny everything. The dealer denies liability for the part, the insurance company denies your claim, the criminal with the smoking gun in his hand denies the murder and DEMANDS to see his pro-bono lawyer. It's only after you hire your own lawyer that you get results. That way, everyone in America gets the shaft and the lawyers get paid; all under the guise of "protecting our rights".

So, I ASSUME that John's dealer took a peek at his cats, saw some dents, and said, "Ah-hah! I have determined that your cats failed due to abuse, and not some internal shortcoming or design flaw that my company is responsible for." The only way for John to get to the bottom of the cause for failure is to: 1) pay for it himself, 2) hire an attorney, or 3) make enough noise on his own so that the dealer decides to help him out. Again, I don't know the specifics, but I assume that's the way it's playing out here. I've seen it enough with my dealership, insurance companies, product warranties, etc. Screw the consumer - it's the American way!

By mrbieler on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 07:11 am: Edit

John,

The dealership doesn't make any money on warranty work unless LRNA pays them. Often, dealerships have to wait a long time to get re-imbursed versus immediate payment from the owner. Corporate just doesn't sign blank checks. Work has to be justified.

If the dealership is concerned that LRNA will reject the claim, they aren't going to work for free. If it's a questionable claim that is likely due to driver negligence, their reluctance is understandable. They will be out of pocket for parts and labor until someone pays them. Dealerships often serve as customer advocates to corporate, but they will only stick their necks out so far.

If you think you have a legitimate gripe, contact LRNA directly and have them meet with you at a dealership. LRNA should have floating regional techs who visit the dealerships regularly.

Jeff

By Joshua Bova (Jbova) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 08:13 am: Edit

Man what a pain in the butt. I took my 95 to the dealer with a little over 79K miles on my truck, said that the cats were rattling and that they should be replaced under warranty. The service writer called the LR rep and five minutes later I scheduled the appointment. No one ever even listened to my truck, let alone look at it. My truck has unmistakably been off-road, and no one even blinked. You near NJ? Stop by.

Anyway, if you read the warranty posted in the resources section, there is a procedure for appeals,and with only 57K you have plenty of time.


-josh

By C.Frezza on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:22 am: Edit

My only input is that a dealer is a dealer and a LR Center IS a LR Center. If you can find a good one near you, it would be to your benefit to deal with them. It is a shame you didn't buy it from a LR Center. I've had a few problems and they never seem to give me any beef about it if it's a reasonable request. Stay away from dealers that do not sell LR exclusively.

By Ray on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:52 am: Edit

BeenThere, how did you order your cat from summit racing. I called them they said they dont carry LR Cat. What info should I give them. They are asking me for pipe size etc. What is the LR exhaust pipe size.Thanks for your input.

By Ron on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:54 am: Edit

This would be a good one for the Discoweb archieves, Summit Racing Cat part numbers.

Ron

By Ben There on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:06 am: Edit

Ok sports fans: here it is.
all from Summit Racing

p/n: CTO-6806

desc: universal, 12" long 2.5" inlet/outlet, slipfit catalytic convertor

price: $60.69 each

details: meets epa/carb requirements, has warranty, claims to outflow and outlast OEM cats. Has aluminized heatshields 409 stainless steel shells and 16 gauge Stainless pipes and nipples.

This is the one that the guys on the RN BBS used on many RRs and Discos.

By Ron on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:22 am: Edit

Is this the flat one or the round one? I thought the rover ones had two different ones?

ROn

By Ben There on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit

Not sure about flat or round. My DI has two round (oval?) convertors on it. This cat has similar shape. Spanish Trail Rover Club has a tech article about this also.

By Bert on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:33 am: Edit

IMHO: It shouldn't matter about the shape as long as it fits and is rated for the size engine you have. Cats are kind of like mufflers, come in many shapes and sizes, mostly to fit specific vehicles and provide the dealer with a propriotory part. Universals work just as well as a "real" one

By Bill Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 11:00 am: Edit

NRP also has "performance" Y-pipes and exhaust systems (including cats) with improved ground clearance and flow:

http://www.onlinemac.com/business/northwestrover/nr00007.htm

Pretty pricey, though...

I think Allen Hale here in AZ is running NRP exhaust.

By Tom Proctor on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 11:01 am: Edit

I'll have to look under my 96. But there is a *flat* cat on the Passenger (right) side, and a *round* cat on the Drivers (left) side. If I remember correctly, the *flat* cat was a tight fit. I can't say for sure if a *round* one would foul anything or not (assuming you use the same down pipe arrangement).

Tom P.
96 Disco

By hadaz on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 06:54 pm: Edit

So Bill you are still out there. Have not heard form you lately. Yes I am running the NRP exhaust. It can be purchased as whole or seperate y-pipe and seperate exhausr. The system is bolt on and can be done in the driveway, on all four wheels. Everything bolts together. Real nice system, sounds great and some what of a performance gain too. They also sell through Rovers North. Whole system is $1300

By Ron on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 03:41 am: Edit

You can buy from NRP directly and save some money, if you want an NRP system

Ron

Still looking for a flat cat part number

By Joey D. on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 07:26 am: Edit

Ron;

You have a RR right? If you go to the Spanish Trail Rover Club web site, there is an article in th etech section that gives full details about doing an aftermarket exhaust, including cats. The guy that did the job replaced his flat and round cat with two of the CATCO cats from Summit.