By Norm Orschnorschki on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:58 pm: Edit

I'm in the middle of putting a new 4.6 RPi motor in my '95 Disco and my mechanic is concerned that the standard deep dish oil pan on the 4.6 won't give me enough clearance with the drive gear on big bumps off road. I talked to RPi and they suggested using my old 3.9 oil pan (and oil pick up pipe). However, they say I'll have to fit the 3.9 pan with two bolts and turn the motor over a couple of times (no spark) to see where the 1st and 2nd crankshaft journals are striking the pan. Then we're supposed to beat the oil pan out with a hammer to give it some clearance where it's contacting the crank journals. This sounds like a pretty crude solution to me -- I'd prefer a little more finesse.

Anyone had any experience with this -- or with clearance problems using the stock deep-dish 4.6 oil pan on the Disco?

Thanks,
Norm

By Bill Gill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:16 am: Edit

For all the greenbacks you're layin on RPi for the 4.6, I'd demand a better solution. They are supposedly the "experts" when it comes to Rover engines. I'm currently considering a twin chip upgrade for my '96, but I wonder if they'll just beat the chips home with a hammer?......

By Chris crane on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 02:23 pm: Edit

The thing is, its not so crude.

Most sumps will miss the throw of the crank by an approprate amount,

The need to check is purly additional attention to detail,

The truth is the 3.9 was not designed to run a 4.6 crank, and although it can, clearance need checking due Rover appauling tollerences.

So perhaps I should advice fabricating a brand new sump.I am sure this would cost a packet.

Exclusive Sports cars, Morgan TVR and many more kit car manafactures use the 3.9 sump on there 4.6 engines sports car some up to £35K's worth and there ( Rover V8 ) engine supplier carries out the exact same checking and modifiaction procedure.

So what else can i reccomend to do. ??.

BTW We have supplied over 300 4.6 upgrades and this has never been an issue or cause of engine problems to date.

Chris crane
RPi Engineering.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 04:48 pm: Edit

I dont see anything wrong with making a little more room in the pan for the throws of the crank. It turning out trashy looking or not pretty much depends on how much time you take to do it. I would say its all up to you.....


Kyle

By Norm Orschnorschki on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 10:43 pm: Edit

I'm not knocking RPi (no pun intended), but to start bashing the inside of oil pan seems like pretty inexact science. I'd hate to bash it too much and weaken the pan so that some day when I least expect it, all the oil leaks out in the middle of the boondocks and cooks my new RPi motor. Just how many mms will I need to bash?

Would using a thicker gasket or a metal shim between two gaskets work?

Thanks,
Norm

By hadaz on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 01:26 am: Edit

Bill Gill,
Trying to reach you but I keep getting into black hole and it refuse to seend you my e-mail see below:Transcript of session follows -------
[email protected]
550 5.7.1 Mail from 207.46.181.44 refused by blackhole site relays.mail-abuse.org

By Bill Gill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 11:54 am: Edit

I'm not dinging RPi either (excellent rep, and Chris has been very helpful to me on chip info), but have to agree with Norm on the oilpan issue; why doesn't RPi have oil pan contingency as part of 4.6 upgrade? (and charge for it, of course!)

By Chris Crane on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 01:23 pm: Edit

We would love too but If TVR and Morgan think its Ok then we are just small fish by comparison,

Truth is, with the 100's of vehicle types the Rover V8 gets used in we've got all the more important issues covered.but tooling up for a sump conversion for just one aspect would mean the costs would be too significant to make it appropriate.

We do however explain the minor issue of the intended conversion to any customer wishing to purchase the 4.6 direct from us, we also make sure any companies fronting our engines are also fully aware of these facts..

Chris crane

By alhang on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit

I'm a little confused, is it the axle's 3rd member that might hit the pan? If so can't you just install larger bumpstops or a mild front lift to get the clearance?

-al

By Chris crane on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 08:13 pm: Edit

The true 4.6 oil pump pickup configuration, rules out the use of the true 4.6 sump, so to use in a classic range rover V8 application or any other pre 96 style application, the crank throw/ sump clearance is the possible issue worthy of checking.

By Norm on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 12:04 am: Edit

Well, now I'm thoroughly confused, Chris.

So, you're telling me that there is, in fact, no problem with the deep-dish 4.6 oil pan getting struck by the drive gear of a Disco on hard bumps.

Let me see if I've got this right: The problem is that the 4.6 oil pick up pipe will not fit with the timing cover/oil pump/distributor assembly used on the 3.9 to 4.6 conversion (which is the stock front cover for the 3.9 "B" motor). Therefore, it is necessary to use the oil pan and oil pick up pipe from the 3.9 motor to connect with the front cover assembly. Since the crank journals on the 4.6 are bigger than the 3.9's, it may be necessary to bash the inside of the shallow end of the oil pan to clear the crank journals. Am I finally getting this?

One more question: Looking at my trusty Land Rover V8 factory overhaul manual, I see that the 3.9 "B" and 4.6 oil pick up pipes are shaped differently. Also, on the 4.6 there is a stud coming down from one of the main bearing caps that the 4.6 oil pick up pipe bolts onto. Is this stud going to interfere with my 3.9 oil pan or oil pick up pipe?

Thanks,

Norm

By Chris crane on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Ist Para..
No you are not.

2nd Para.
I know only internal issues.

3rd Para.
This is correct, and I love your use of the word "Bash"

4th Para.
The stud you refer to, I belive goes through ( supports) the earlier type "windage tray", so its ok to remove it on later engines if it has no appropriation.

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Hey Chris , do they make a main girdle for these things? That might satisfy even the pickiest bastards.For those that dont know wht this is. A main girdle gets sandwiched between the pan and the block and in most cases spaces the pan about 1/2" off the block....

Kyle