By Mike Little on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 07:28 am: Edit

I am interested in mounting a Husky 8500 in my non airbag ARB bumper and have read that a few modifications are required, has any one installed this winch and what modifications were necessary?

Thanks

Mike Little

By Ron on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 07:06 am: Edit

It will require a custom plate/tray to mount on a non-airbag ARB. It will be a royal PITA to make work, if it is possible. Check out the RE12000 in the airbag ARB and you will get an idea of the level of work necessary. You should either get an M12000 warn or buy a Safari Gard bumper.

Ron

By Mike Little on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Thanks Ron, I read on the Warn site that they do not recommend any thing but wire rope with their winches.
I was hoping to use some 3/8 line from Master Pull on the winch that was why the attempt with the Husky install.
Have you any thoughts on this ?


Thanks
Mike

By Ron on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 03:54 am: Edit

Sure,
You "can" use masterpull or amsteel (or better yet the new plasma which is supposed to be 50% stronger) on any winch but it is not recommended for planetary winches and I personally think it is not a good idea (planetary winches like the X9 and S9 superwinch and all warns except the 8274-50 have brakes in the drum which heats them up, heat brakes down the fiber in the cable). BUT the even though warn does not recommend it (why no one seems to know although the main reason seems to be cost and percieved liability) you can safely use Amsteel on the warn 8274-50 as the brake is external to the winch (it is the silver disk on the side). Also based on a cursory inspection and my somewhat clouded rememberance of how the ARB looks and the front of a disco I belive an 8274-50 could be mounted to a non-airbag ARB using only some cutting of the plastic grill and maybe a couple of spacers for the feet (check out d-90.com for how it was done on a defender). The d90 people put 8274s on their ARBs all the time. The 8274 is the same depth as the M12000 (which many discos have on a non-airbag ARB and it is only taller, so I think you can just cut the grill to make it fit. I think it would be much easier than the Husky. In any case your best bet is to find someone with an ARb and measure and see what you can make fit.

Ron

PS a lot of people do use amsteel on planetaries and I can think of only two who have had any problems so maybe you should just get an M12000 and put on some 3/8 amsteel and just be carefull not to use the winch to lower yourself and keep the duty cycle down.

By Ron on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 04:09 am: Edit

Doh,

I just realized you said you HAVE an ARB already. Measure and you will be able to see if the 8274-50 fits ok and let us know. I have an M8000 I am picking up in two weeks (what they called and 8274 prior to 1974) and I have 150ft of 5/16th masterpull for it just to let you know I think it is ok to run rope on that type of winch.


Ron

By Milan on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 05:55 am: Edit

Ron's sugesstions are good and I agree with all of them. I don't have experience with the ARB bumper but I suspect I'm one of the poeple he's refering to as having problems with the masterpull line on a planetary winch. My Warn XD9000 fried the line to a point where the layers on the durm got flattened/distorted to a different degree depending on the heat produced. The winds that were actually touching the side of the drum (on the clutch side) got baked onto the drum. This section of rope got damaged the most.

This happened, I'm sure, because the drum brake was not functioning well and I have since bought a new one but have not installed it yet. Masterpull did not want to replace my rope even though this happened the very first time I used it. After a bit of discussion I may get a new rope after they inspect my old one. I have since gone over the rope many times and it seems like I could just cut out the 8" long burnt section, splice the rope together and use it again. Masterpull does not think the strength has been compromised and they may be right but I want them to test the rope. The reason I wanted Masterpull to replace my rope was because they said it would be fine on my winch even though Warn said it would not and it fried on it's first pull. Then Masterpull's excuse was that it was the winch that caused my problem. In any case, I still think they're going beyond their duty in keeping me happy (fingers crossed).

Warn does not recomend their planetaries because of the possible heat issue. However, all that said a properly working planetary will not damage your rope unless you use it to lower yourself a lot and/or with many duty cycles (like Ron said). That's when the brake gets a workout. When just pulling/lowering the load and stopping only a few times, it will be ok.

Overall, I think the rope is much tougher than I thought and using a spur or worm gear winch will totally alleviate any possible heat issues. The nice thing about the 8274 is that you can fit 150'+ of 5/16 rope on there. BTW, I think a 3/8" for the little Husky is overkill. The 5/16" line has a breaking strength of 11,700 lbs, which is well past the stall speed of the winch.

If you're interested in pictures of the damaged rope, email me.

By Ron on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 06:03 am: Edit

I agree with 99% of what Milan says, the only thing I would add is my concern with rope on a planetary is long-term. The rope begins to break down at 150 degrees and completely fails at 300 or so. With a planetary you get over 150 degrees on every hard pull or power out, so long term the rope may weaken and snap when it is being pulled the most. Whether this concern is based in reality or conjecture I don't know, but with an Warn 8274-50 or Husky or Ramsey Re, it is not a concern at all as the heat build up is much less.

Ron

my 2 cents, well more like at least a quarter.

By nadim on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 06:47 am: Edit

Everything said ere is excellent...i believe in them all. however, i have to take my hat off to the husky winches...i have seen a 10,000lb pull a full chevy fire engine (old ones...3rd world countries)...from a steep rock hill!...i mean, guys with M12,000 were looking with amazement!...

just to give you some more insight on the huskys...then again, when are you gonna pull a fully loaded fire engine?...hehehe

By Milan on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 04:38 pm: Edit

Ron,
I agree that there's definitely a concern with the heat. However, the winch does not heat up under hard pull that much until the brake is engaged. Same with lowering yourself. It's not the lowering it's only the braking that causes too much heat. The heat from the gears/motor is of no concern in my opinin.

Also, after seeing what my rope withstood as far as heat damage goes, I'm not as worried as I was before using it. I don't know about the other planetaries but on Warn winches it's not even the drum that's a concern but the drum edges/sides. They're thin and thus heat up a lot more and much faster than the rest of the spool. They're the ones that act as a heat sink when the steel cable is no longer on the drum.

My opinion:
1) for normal or LD winching, don't worry
2) for HD winching, get a worm or spur
3) if you're not sure or you worry, get a worm or a spur

If you do heavy duty winching, you should have a HD winch to begin with anyway and that usually means worm. I would also like to see M1200 with 3/8" amsteel blue. I'm sure it would be fine as the HD winch brake would not work as hard as the one on my XD9000.

In the end it's all about intended use and knowing your kind of wheeling/winching.

I would really like both a new 8274 and a Husky10 or Ramsey RE1000. Then I could just try them both and decide which I like better. hehehe

By Bill B on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 02:58 am: Edit

Milan - hopefully soon I can give you an opinion on that - I just put 3/8 x 125' of the masterpull on my M12K - but unfortunately did not get stuck enough last weekend to need it (damn it!) - After a few tries I'll let you know.

By Milan on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 06:15 am: Edit

Hahaha. Can't wait! Funny how when you wnat to try your winch you "can't" get stuck. When it's broken or you just want a "liesurly" drive, you get the worst stuck. Do let me know how it works out. I want to know if you experience any flattening of the rope (whic would be common).

By Ron on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 06:59 am: Edit

Or when you go to a fellow rover owner's house to work on the trucks and he says "I need to move some logs to make a bridge for the RTV course in the back yard, lets try out that husky" and you sheepishly have to admit you took the box with the controller and recovery gear out to make room for the other winch you picked up on the way over.

Ron

DOH!

By Bill B on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 07:23 am: Edit

Damn Ron - Tom busted you huh - just when you wanted to show off that winch. Did you go drive the little course we made? Short, but fun.

By Ron on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 07:27 am: Edit

I drove about 1/4 of it with two 20ft by 2ft in diameter logs attached to the back of the disco.

Ron

it would not have been that bad but I did not have the warn multimount with me and I had the Koenig PTO winch I picked up 2 hours earlier sitting in the back of the disco. We have since put the tree strap, shackles, snatch block and controller in a small fabric tool bag and have sworn to keep it in the car (it is currently sitting at the bottom of the stairs in out living room).

By Milan on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Can't really say I feel sorry for you Ron. Hehehehe. The tools and recovery gear is something anybody with multiple vehicles has to deal with. Now imagine the headache I have trying to keep 3 separate sets of tools (having a Ford, a Jeep and now the Disco). If only there was just one standard for the many different fasteners on vehicles. I just may have to get another set of wrenches. But this time I'm going for those matric-and-imperial kind.

By Rob Davison (Pokerob) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

quoting milan:

>I think a 3/8" for the little Husky is overkill. The 5/16" line has a >breaking strength of 11,700 lbs, which is well past the stall speed of >the winch.

um, what if you want to double back that bitch with a pulley? theoretically that junk can break .... bess go with the 3/8" and know you in like flint.

rd

By Moe on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Good point Rob--better to go bigger in this case. I would also be a bit concerned about fatigue with any consistent use and especially exposure to heat, oil, dirt etc. Remember this is only rope. Avid rockclimbers will retire a 10mm rope every season or two after taking many falls. What is the standard with the Am"steel" ropes? How much use before it should be retired?

While I see the benefits of replacing the steel line with a rope line, I'd be frightfully scared that it would fail at the wrong time. From experience, I know that cutting a 3/8 wire line with a hacksaw takes some time. Would a set of scissors be enough for the rope line?

Ian

By Ron on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 03:23 am: Edit

Read up on the stuff.

www.bb4wa.com
www.masterpull.com

also search Amsteel or masterpull or the newest and best plasma. It is really tough and if you break it it falls to the ground.

Ron

By Ron on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 04:25 am: Edit

"But this time I'm going for those matric-and-imperial kind."

I have several sets of these. The big set was on sale for $20 at value city (I will not admit I went there) where they normally go fro 125 or so. I bought everyone on my xmas list a set and they were all happy and thought I spent a ton of money. I now have one in the disco all the time. Not ideal as there is always some play so the rachet is not effecient, although they work as advertised and are as good as the disco has all sort of bolts on it. There are even still some whitworth!

Ron

By Milan on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 05:03 am: Edit

Thanks Ron, I'll look around and see what I can find.

Pokerob,
If you double up the line, you almost double up the load capacity as well (depending on angles) - now you have 23,400 lbs breaking strength as the load is spread over 2 stretches of the rope. I still don't see a point in running a 3/8 on anything smaller than 10K winch. I think 3/8 makes a nice extension but on smaller winches it just takes up too much spool with no real benefit.