By T on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 08:55 pm: Edit

I started looking into modifying my Disco -96 with the usual stuff like a 2" lift, slightly bigger M/T tires and a winch+bumper. My driving is about 80% tarmac, 15% gravel roads and 5% off road.
BUT, after studying the subject a bit and looking at the alternatives I just can't bring myself creating a truck that will be considerably more unsafe for 80% of my driving just to make it look good and be more enjoyable during my off road driving.

I just present three examples below that highlights my concerns.

# 1
If I hit a child running out in front of the car just because my M/Ts had much greater stopping distance on wet tarmac than stock tires it would be a difficult thing to get over, knowing that I put them on for my own pleasure, hence could be
avoided.

# 2
Same if I was driving on the highway and a deer jumps out, I make a turn and the truck tips over because of the lift, no sway bars or a heavy loaded roof rack. If this caused any harm to my family traveling with me, I would have a hard time justifying that 2-3" lift for my self, knowing it maybe could have been avoided.

# 3
You drive along in the city when suddenly an old VW rabbit turns out in front of you, no chance of stopping and that ARB bar makes light work of chewing up the bodywork of the rabbit. If the people in the VW suffered serious injury, would I still be praising my sturdy truck and my successful modifications that eliminated all crush cans?

Right now I see no other solution but to keep my Disco basically as it is and get maybe a D-90 to set up for off-road use only. (I live in Europe so Defenders are slightly easier/cheaper to come by over here.)
I mean, the things that causes problems on road, is what makes off road driving safe and fun, so for a truck used maybe 80-90% off road I would not hesitate to go for the full kit.

My question is if you ever thought in this direction and have a cheaper solution than an extra L-R, or is it just me who is weak hearted?

Sorry for the lengthy post and poor English.

Regards,
T

By Dave Thomas on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 09:45 pm: Edit

You make some really strong points. All valid.

In my case I just don't need anything but good tires for the type of off-roading I usually do.

That's why I purchased the Discovery...its very capable as is.

Now, If I had unlimited funds, I would have *two* Discoverys.....

By Ron on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 03:36 am: Edit

You can offset the increased roll by fitting wider offset wheels, use good all around tires (Dunlop R/T) which would not increase stopping distance and would improve performance in snow and ice as well as mud and you could not get a bull bar.

Ron

Personally the deer and people in the VW can eat my bull bar

By Tom on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 03:45 am: Edit

T -

You make some good points, but not all valid if you setup your disco right or argue them a bit.

Allow me to play devil's advocate...

#1: My 32" super swampers, after being siped by Discount Tire, actually stop me MUCH better in all situations than the stock XPC's they replaced. They are a softer coumpound and once they are siped they grab like heck, even on snow/ice. No more ABS kicking on and sliding 10 feet in my Disco in mild snow. To me, not doing this mod should make you feel guilty!! You can also get other tires like Dunlop Radial Rover RT's or BFG Trac Edge that are as good as mild mud tires and perform great on pavement.

#2: How extreme!! There is no reason that you have to sacrifice sway bars when you have a lift. BOTH of mine are on with my 3" lift and the truck handles just fine. Granted, it is taller, but I also have the GCR rims pushed out wider to help offset this. I don't have anymore fear than I did before of tipping. Load up a heavy roof rack on a stock truck and you are still in trouble. Avoid the loaded roof rack or drive with the appropriate care. By the way, you are on a slippery-slope, here. By this arguement, you should sell the Disco and get a Volvo station wagon instead!

#3 More slippery-slope. Your Discovery will destroy a VW with our without an ARB. You have a steel bumper and a 4700 pound vehicle already. Sure the ARB will make it worse, but if you have enough force to injure with an ARB, you have enough with a stock bumper. By the way, you can lift your truck and keep your stock bumpers. It is not against the law!

One thing I do agree on is the second truck idea. I would love to have a dedicated off-roader. If you can afford it, do it!

However, wouldn't that cash serve a much better purpose in the hands of charity or in your kid's college fund? You can feel guilty about anything if you try hard enough! ;)

Good luck!

Tom

By Please..... on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 03:52 am: Edit

Buy the Defender for Off-Road, and trade the Disco in for an Audi A6 Avant.... Seems more like what you want anyway. Most of us here are Discovery Enthusiasts, which means we like to play with our trucks. If you feel that strongly about these things, you would definitely be better served on all accounts mentioned by the Audi...

By pk on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 06:42 am: Edit

You think too much!

The Disco does not have to be wildly modified for your type of use.

Put on some bigger tires with an AT tread. Install 1.5" or 2" of lift only with new springs and forget about lift blocks. Leave the sway bars where they are! Use Bilstein shocks; they are not as ideal off road as some others but she will handle like a sports car on the road.

Also, some household cleaning chemicals will cause cancer, polute the aquafer and destroy the Bolivian rainforest.

Don't forget that a meteor will someday hit the earth and kill everyone anyhow... Only the roaches will survive.

Before this happens... why not have a nice Disco that you can enjoy guilt free???

pk

By nadim on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 07:01 am: Edit

Who dares question the delight from driving a Disco?...accidents start from the driver's seat...

By pk on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 07:06 am: Edit

Well said!

By John on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 07:24 am: Edit

If you are soo afraid of something happening to you or someone else while driving your vehicle, then you should stay home and not drive at all.

Lighten up T. Things happen, unfortunately.

Fortunately you don't have to modify your Disco to make it a good off-road vehicle.

Enjoy the Disco...

By nadim on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 08:12 am: Edit

IMHO:

This is the best set up for a guy such as T. These accessories will take him where no other 4x4 will go, except more modified Discos!...lol

2 ARB lockers, BFG ATs 245/70 16, OME 1.5" lift, stock (ramsey) winch A-bar with rep 8000

By ZF on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 09:27 am: Edit

Actually, the best mod for T would be to disconnect his fuel pump instead of his sway bars.
That way the Disco won't go anywhere, and the VW, deer and kid will live happily ever after. T can then stay safely at home and worry about when the meteorite will hit and kill us all.

By Ray Gunn on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 09:34 am: Edit

For God's sake, T! You sound like one of these bleeding heart safety pukes we have here EVERYWHERE in the US. Life is uncertain and no one gets out alive. Drive your truck to best of your ability and enjoy it; if it makes you feel so bad, then get one of those VW rabbits. None of the mods you mention will make the truck unsafe to drive, so stop worrying about it or sell it to someone who is not a puss.

By Milan on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Well,
let me offer another suggestion that noone mentioned yet.

Modify your driving style to match the vehicle modifications. Leave more distance for braking, drive slower where there are kids around. You can sriusly injure or kill a child with the VW bugs too, you know. Will you then be wishing you were riding a bicycle? Probably.

As far as somebody cutting in front of me and causing a collision...I would not want to be involved and much less injure someone but I sure would want that big strong bumper there to make sure the idiot does not cause harm to my vehicle occupants including me.

By Axel Haakonsen (Axel) on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Well Said, Milan!

By T on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 08:53 pm: Edit

OK,
I thought my post should generate some opinions and it did, thanks for the comments! I sure agree that a stock disco is quite capable both on and off-road, that's why I got it in the first place! Probably I will start by getting a second set of nice mud tires on steel rims to use off road.

As the other goes, yes, too heavy roof rack and loose items like hi-lift jacks inside vehicle is plain stupid, no comments needed.

Milan, I totally agree with you, driving careful and realising that you are in a high and heavy truck, not a sports car will also go a very long way.

However, I cannot accept arguments like "shit happens", "sooner or later it's all over anyway"
and "with a pro like me behind the wheel, feel no fear folks, nothing can happen".
Everyone that not realises that driving in daily traffic interacting with thousands of imperfect humans, things can happen in an instant and not even Michael Schumacher (F1 driver for you NASCAR guys) would have a chance to avoid it should not be on the road.

And no, I have no plans of disconnecting neither the sway bars or the fuel pump... By the way, shouldn't it be possible to modify the sway bar to easily disconnect/connect on the trail, haven't that been discussed somewhere???

For the rest of the mods I guess all of us have to find our own best compromise based on driving style and how the Disco is used.

Thanks again, and let me add that my post was not meant as a critisism of the people here and the discussions that I follow with great interest.

All the best,
T

By Milan on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 09:12 pm: Edit

Well,
I see what you mean by not liking 'shit happens' etc. I don't like hearing it either but sometimes it's true. All we can do is try our best to avoid bad situations the best we can. This applies to life in general not just driving. Prevention and/or foresight goes a long way and I only wish I could follow my own advice all the time.

I agree with running sway bars on road. I, too, think disconnects exist and if they don't I'll make some.

Good luck with your mods and in general...

By Dave Thomas on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Hey now....

Don't go insulting all us Americans by assuming that we are all NASCAR fans!

;-)

By hadaz on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 07:11 pm: Edit

Actually in response to # 3, ARB does have "crush cans" in the airbag compatible Bull BAr which is meant for your protection, not the other guys>

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 06:22 am: Edit

My advice:

Scenario #1: Honk twice and hit the gas. That ought to teach the little bastard not to play in traffic. Besides, by honking your horn, you're giving fair warning. You don't even have to make contact to get your point across.

Scenario #2: Honk twice and hit the gas. What's the matter, you don't like venison sausage? Remember, anything smaller than your front tires is fair game. With Super Swampers, the average deer is no problem, especially with a heavy-duty cattle catcher on front.

Scenario #3: Honk twice and hit the gas. Let the VW driver see those Super Swamper treads up close and personal. Serves the SOB right for impeding your progress. Besides, what's the point of having all this heavy-duty off-road equipment on the street if you don't use it?

---Norm

By nadim on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Well said Norm...thinking of opening a driving school?...