By Ron on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 04:47 am: Edit

Some observations on my newly aquired rope as a lot of people have asked.

1). I am alergic to it! Probably some of the chemical in it. This is annoying, but I suppose less so than the shards of steel I get with regular wire.
2) Charcoal grey which looks black came as silver grey to me. This is great, but I am not sure if it is the way it is supposed to be or if they sent be the real silver one by mistake. I couldn't care less as I wanted the silver but they only offered that in extentions.
3) It appears to be really tough based on feel. Weird as it looks like you could cut it but you can't.
4) it is light as a feather
5) the yellow hook is cool and heavy as a rock
6) The end has an electrical crip terminal on it. I will be making a loop for the first wrap to prevent unwinding.
7) Amsteel and Masterpull are basically the same but there is some new stuff called plasma which is supposed to be even stronger
8) I like it, despite the fact it is worth more than the winch it is on. Sure new wire would have been cheaper but then I would have to use gloves for it, but since I have to use gloves due to the stupid chemicals it is a net loss, I guess the main advantage is that you can kink it or do other not nice things and it will not get damaged.
9) Since I took pics of the hilift mount (coming today or tomorrow Ho) I will procrastinate a bit before I send pics of the rope installed.

Ron

By Milan on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 06:55 am: Edit

1)I am alergic to it!

Bummer!

2) Charcoal grey which looks black came as silver grey to me.

I have charcoal and depending on light, it looks silver at times. I thought it was nice as it does not stand out as much as a yellow, blue or purple line would.

3) It appears to be really tough based on feel. Weird as it looks like you could cut it but you can't.

Like I said. Much tougher than I expected too.

4) it is light as a feather

Nice, ain't it? I also like how easy it is to handle. Just bunch it up, wrap it around your arms, etc.

5) the yellow hook is cool and heavy as a rock

I love it too. I just wish it came on a swivel.

6) The end has an electrical crip terminal on it. I will be making a loop for the first wrap to prevent unwinding.

So do steel cables. I think if you stick with the recommendation of havin the first layer on completely as your minimum, it will not slip. Howvere, do let me know what type of loop you're planning as I thought about this and can't come up with a good, low profile one.

7) Amsteel and Masterpull are basically the same but there is some new stuff called plasma which is supposed to be even stronger

I always thought Masterpull was distributing Amsteel. They do not manufacture their own, so theyr are indeed the same.

8) I like it, despite the fact it is worth more than the winch it is on. Sure new wire would have been cheaper but then I would have to use gloves for it, but since I have to use gloves due to the stupid chemicals it is a net loss, I guess the main advantage is that you can kink it or do other not nice things and it will not get damaged.

I use gloves anyway and I'm not alergic to it (I'm more alergic to its high price). I feel that if it were to just slip, I don't want burns on my hands. The nice thing is you really don't have to worry about wire splints and can use light leather gloves as opposed to some thick ones.

I also think you'll like it when it's actually being used (under load) - no creaking, etc. It even "feels and sounds" save.

By Ron on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 07:07 am: Edit

5) the yellow hook is cool and heavy as a rock

I love it too. I just wish it came on a swivel.

Actually that would be bad. That would create an "ends free" situation in which rope has a lower breaking strength. Basically ends free the rope can twist open and "bird cage" reducing strength, it would be nice if it was disconnectable like the old ones recovery gear used to sell.

Not that it matters I just thought I would share.

PS when you are alergic to it do not wrap it around your arm. DOH!

Ron

Masterpull is not Amsteel, they used to sell amsteel but switched to another supplier when amsteel could not meet demand. i think it is allied signal makes it now.

By Ron on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 08:01 am: Edit

Oh,

I plan to braid the loop at the end, much like the other end but around the drum of the winch. It will be both an anti theft feature and a safty feature. I am notsure if it will be necessary as the M8000 (early 8274 has a different way of securing the end of the rope.

Ron

By Milan on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 11:52 am: Edit

Ron: Actually that would be bad. That would create an "ends free" situation in which rope has a lower breaking strength. Basically ends free the rope can twist open and "bird cage" reducing strength, it would be nice if it was disconnectable like the old ones recovery gear used to sell.

Milan: I don't think this would be an issue as it does not "unbraid" itself under no load. Under load, the braids will stai locked. If anything the swivel would allow the rope braids to stay twisted while the should the twisting be in the direction against braids.

Ron: PS when you are alergic to it do not wrap it around your arm. DOH!

Milan: I was talking more in general. And if you're alergic to it, I assume you'd wear a long sleeved shirt. DOH!

Masterpull was definitely selling Amsteel as originally it was only available in "amsteel" blue. I did not know they switched suppliers.


How are you going to secure the loop to the drum, so it winds tightly? Maybe it's a non-issue once you have the first layer completely on.

On the 8274, the drum has a hole, into which you have to thread the cable/rope and clamp it down with a screw. I'd shield the rope somehow (maybe heat shrink tubing with glue in it will work) so you don't just clamp few threads.

By disco2guy on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Thanks for all the comments, guys. Inquiring minds want to know!

disco2guy

By Ron on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 03:08 am: Edit

Milan: I don't think this would be an issue as it does not "unbraid" itself under no
load. Under load, the braids will stai locked. If anything the swivel would allow the
rope braids to stay twisted while the should the twisting be in the direction against
braids.

Ron: It happens with wire rope, although I guess the effect would be reduced I can see it happening with rope too. Nothing to worry about just sort of a why you don't fit a swivel hook point.

Milan: I was talking more in general. And if you're alergic to it, I assume you'd wear
a long sleeved shirt. DOH!

Ron: I know, but I wrapped the sucker around my arm before I realized that.

Milan: Masterpull was definitely selling Amsteel as originally it was only available in
"amsteel" blue. I did not know they switched suppliers.

Ron: This is correct. They switched suppliers about a year ago maybe or so. You will now notice that blue masterpull is no longer available. Probably trademark related.

Ron: As far as the loop, I was thinking more of a last resort feature to prevent the truck from falling off the winch line. ie the loop would be the last thing holding the truck if the drum unwound. What to do from that point, I don't know but at least I would not be completely falling backward.


Ron

By Bill B on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 03:40 am: Edit

Ron, Mike Boggs told me about some type of compact knot that he used on his Amsteel on the winch drum, but being knot challenged, I immediately forgot what he told me. That is the only downfall I see of the Masterpull - I'm going to have to learn how to braid rope in case it ever does break or get worn through on something - can't just put wire rope clamps on this!

By John on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 03:59 am: Edit

There is a repair joint for this rope....its like a chinese finger puzzel, slip over both ends and it tightens on itself, supposedly stronger than the braid itself...Tennessee Offroad carrys it as well as the line itself, 3 different colors.

By Ron on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 04:01 am: Edit

http://www.neropes.com/splice/sp20b_db_eye_splice.htm

Ron's looping plan. (above) I think I could knot mine together if I had to.

Ron

By Rick on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 04:23 am: Edit

Hi gang, both AMSTEEL blue and master pull ropes are what is called 12 strand plasma rope. As far as knots, a good emergency knot would be a figure 8 follow through which at 75-80% of the rope strength is one of the strongest knots around. Because the rope is 12 strand, braiding it, although possible is time consuming and difficult.
We have done very heavy pulls and found that you do need about 8 wraps on the bottom layer for the rope to hold. Make sure the bottom layer goes on very tight (under considerable load). Our only concern with this rope would be if you have a planetary gear winch and you use it to winch out" under load, ie lowering yourself or someone else. This heats up the drum (because it is over-riding the brake) which could heat damage the first layer of rope on the drum. Still we really do love this stuff, no more having to spend an hour at the end of a day re-spooling the cable, the rope goes on the drum almost perfectly by itself.

By rick on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 04:33 am: Edit

One more thing, about the hook, oil the hinge!!! otherwise you'll end up with a frozen hook you can't open. The hook is my least favorite part of the whole rope. Also because the rope is constructed with no rotational biass, having a swivel on the hook really wouldn'd affect the rope.
rick

By Ron on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 04:39 am: Edit

I thought plasma was different from amsteel/masterpull. Plasma rope goes through a crystilization process not done to Amsteel or masterpull that makes it stronger.

Ron

By Bill B on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 05:09 am: Edit

Ron - are you kidding?! - I have trouble tying my shoes, much less trying to follow that procedure. They'd find my cold, dead carcass in the woods long before I figured that out. :-)

John - thanks for the tip on the emergency splices!

Bill

By Milan on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 05:47 am: Edit

Ron,
You're correct in the steel cable's spiral winding. Although I have seen a steel cable work with a swivel hook no problem. I did not think it would be a problem with the rope as it has criss-cross braiding as Rick suggests.

Did you find out what it is you're alergic to? I think that really bites as it takes a bit from the benefits. I'm sure as you use it more, you'll forget all about it and just enjoy having it over the steel cable anyway.

As far as the loop on the drum goes, I think it's a great idea but I can't come up with a good way of doing it without creating a big knot that would affect the winds. I have the splicing instructions but still fail to see how they do loops on both ends. You have to pull the whole length of the rope through the braiding at least once and I don't know how you'd do it with the drum or the hook at either end. I figure on simple extension ropes, they don't insert the thimble until after the rope is pulled through the "hole" in the braiding but you can't do that with the hook or the drum. I guess you'd have to make the loop for the hook first, then loop it around the drum and then insert the thimble. Then you're left with a loop at the end and can use a hook with a pin or no hook at all.

The following shows the splicing I'm thinking of, only on my rope they seemed to change step #1 and pull the longer end through. Or maybe they do that on just one end I just happened to unwind the wrong end. Too late now I guess. Even if you do it this way, you'd have to take appart the winch and slip the drum through the loop. Rather than doing that, I'd pull the whole length through in this case and then use the splice to put the hook on.

http://www.neropes.com/splice/sp13_sbraid_eye_brummel.htm

By Milan on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 06:25 am: Edit

Actually, scratch my comments on having to loop the longer end through. I just figured my rope out. The loop was just reversed, so it looked like the other end was pulled through. However, the comment about looping around the hook/drum is still valid. You'd still have to either undo the drum or pull the long end through.

By rick on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 07:58 am: Edit

Master Pull has been using 12 strand plasma rope for a while now. I though Amsteel was also a plasma rope but I may be wrong. Just the facts... the rope starts life as AlliedSignals Spectra and it undergoes a patented recrystallization process, then its woven in a 12x12 strand rope and then a polyurethane finish is added (probably what you are alergic to). To create splices use a "lockstitch type splice, 4-3-2 or 5-4-3 Tuck splice". Check out any sailing book on how to do splices.

Rick

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 08:11 am: Edit

This is starting to sound like a knitting class. Pretty appropriate when talking about Yarn I suppose......

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 08:21 am: Edit

lol Kyle, enjoy pulling the metal shards out of your hand.

Rick I am sure you are right I was just told that there is some new stuff called plasma that has break strengths of 50% more than amsteel. From what I understood amsteel and masterpull were not crystilized. I bet you are right about the finish too.

Cheers
Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 08:38 am: Edit

Dont tell me you have wires hanging out of the braid on that Husky already. You have only used the bastard a handfull of times! Dont they make the hair on the Barbi dolls out of that same yarn?

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 08:47 am: Edit

The husky's wire is ok for now, I am going to stick the masterpull on the old warn or maybe the koenig. Yarn it is not but it is not like even yarn would break with that weak tow truck winch you have on your truck. hehehehe

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 08:52 am: Edit

Hmmm , that makes sense cause you have used mine about as much as you have used yours....hehe

Kyle

By Ron on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 09:29 am: Edit

here I made it go to the top so you could read it.

Ron

By pk on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 06:56 pm: Edit

A new 100 foot length 3/8" wire rope with a nice crimped loop set me back $50.

For the cost of that Barbie hair yarn I can put on a new one and also buy five spares.

The highway robber price of that yarn can only be described as horrendous.

pk

By Discosaurus on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 12:23 pm: Edit

hehehe...yarn

Hey PK...don't slam it until you try it.
That yarn is some mf great stuff !

Nice and light - no kinky's, no meathooks

me like

keith
discosaurus

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Keith , we used the yarn in Moab this year. John Lee had it on his winch. To me it seems like another way of making something easy that really shouldnt be easy. If you know what you are doing with the winch you wont have trouble with the wire rope. People read "How much easier" it is to use the barbi hair and they skip all the basics.

Kyle

By Ali on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 03:59 pm: Edit

What's the size of the rope you're using? 3/8", 5/16", 1/2"....and how long is it?

I'm merely curious, don't really need to throw away my wire rope just yet.

Ali

By Ron on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 04:01 pm: Edit

I have 150ft of 5/16ths on the warn.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:19 pm: Edit

We were using the 3/8 on a husky in Moab.


Kyle

By jman on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:21 pm: Edit

how much weight are you saving up front by ditching the wire rope and going with yarn?
its gota be signifigant rite?

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:23 pm: Edit

Not really anything to write home about....But yes , its definately lighter..

Kyle

By Ron on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Not really that much. I mean cable is kinda heavy but the winch itself is the real weight, at least with a husky/RE/Warn 8274. I would guess 20lbs tops.

By Discosaurus on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:18 pm: Edit

I'm using 3/8" MP Plasma rope (85')

The 3/8" wire rope that came on my X9 weighed
about 30 lbs. Not hardly a suspension buster.
The yarn weighs about 3 lbs.

I don't go for that "winching is hard, so you're
not supposed to make it easier..." crap. Anything
I can do to make it easier to run up the hill when
pulling out the winch rope is good in my book. So
NOW tell me it's not easier....right.

17,000+ lbs breaking strength...
Nice and light...
Impressive abrasion resistance...
No kinks, snags, snake-like coiling...

Sounds good to me.

I must admit, if I needed to winch all day long,
every day, I probably WOULD'NT use it. But, for
occasional stucks and around the ranch work, I'm
sold. If it eventually breaks or does some other
funky crap, I'll change my tune...

keith
discosaurus

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 09:22 pm: Edit

Keith , you are obviously "On the bus" for every new thing that comes down the pike. And yes , some things should be hard. Most of the time good education comes from succesfully figuring out the things NOT to do first hand. Airing down is one of these things. That didnt start with some dude that just rolled off the lot in a brand new truck.I am sure it started with someone that had some experience , one day that guy let some air out of his tires and found that his truck climbed a little better , it was a suplement. Now you read a story about a dealer event and the first thing the whole damn caravan did was "Air down". Half of these people have never been off the pavement. THey dont know the cons of airing down , they dont know what the truck would have done aired up. Next thing ya know they want some 35" tires to let the air out of so they never have to really learn to drive the damn thing. Your right Keith , dont bother with learning how to spool the cable , with the yarn you dont need to know ! Hell , maybe in a few years they will have a robot to drive your truck and run up the hill with the cable when you need it. Last but not least , do you really want a winch cable that a cigarette lighter can render useless?

Kyle

By Wayne on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 10:50 pm: Edit

We have been using a purple coloured Plasma Rope in Australia for the last 12 months and been very impressed with the strength and lightness of the rope for running up hills. Have you guys experienced any problems using it in the rocks with regard to abrasion resistance?

By Moe on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Got a set of scissors?

By michel on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Wait a second here, is the plasma stuff not heat proof/resistant?

Michel

By Discosaurus on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

Sure Moe - I got cable cutters, too !

Kyle, you're fun to debate ! Sure, if I think
it has benefits, I'm right on it. Plus, it's
cool ;)

No Michel, it's rope - synthetic rope. It'll
melt if it gets above 284 deg F, like above Kyle's
lighter. Of course, if I see Kyle and his 'lil
flame, he would need to run faster then ~2500 fps
(nudge-nudge, wink-wink).

To each their own. I like the stuff - so does
the commercial offshore fishing industry who use
it almost exclusively now days for pulling nets.
Of course, that's a pretty wimpy use ;)

keith
discosaurus

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Hmmm , its funny to me that when someone is talking about one of these things they always recycle the same info over and over about what someone else is doing with this product. Again , let these new boys learn how to do shit right before they consider making it any "easier".

Kyle

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Ahhh , I forgot. I dont run.....

Kyle

By Discosaurus on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Well. I thought it was relevant. They pull those
nets pretty hard for a long time in a pretty bad
environment.

Yeah, the new guys should learn the hard way...
...and then make it easier.

ciao
keith
discosaurus

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Keith , perhaps you are still not getting my point. How many guys you seen that have a million dollars worth of crap hanging off their trucks and no clue what so ever about what to do with it? All that shit got mounted on there cause someone said it made things "Easier" or made the truck they are driving "More capable". They in turn think these magical items will make up for anything they might be lacking.
I know the yarn is strong , I have been around it in use and I can apreciate its benefits. I also know that it wont do a damn bit of good and can still hurt you if you dont take the time to learn how to use a winch first. Everyone hears cable horror stories and winching woes (Cut hands , kinked cable,decapitated bodies and the like) Now , instead of getting to know what you have and what it is and is not capable of , what it will and what it will not do to you , how to treat it so that it doesnt treat you badly , just say "fuck it" and skip that , go out and get some yarn cause you dont have time for all that.
The most important tool you have in the truck with you is your brain. If its working well it dont matter what lies ahead or whats on the winch drum. The other side of the coin is , if it aint working well all the new "Cool" shit in the world aint gonna help your ass at all... You dig?

Kyle

By Discosaurus on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Jeez Kyle...of course 'I dig'...

I know about that stuff you talked about in the
last post - I've been winching and rigging for quite a while.

Do you think everything we say on here has to be
in language a guy who's never even seen a truck
offroad can understand ? Or, do we need to put a
'this shit can hurt you' disclaimer on our posts ?

If that's a DiscoWeb rule, I guess I'm in the
wrong place. Maybe you guys should put a sign up
on the DiscoWeb entry page saying you won't be
responsible for every dumb ass thing people do
after reading about it here.

keith
discosaurus

Disclaimer:
"Attention all new guys - the poster of this
message may know more then you do - don't do what
I talk about if you're a dumb ass and don't
understand."

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:03 pm: Edit

That disclaimer is already there!!!

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:05 pm: Edit

You can't fart in America without a disclaimer (and an invoice marked "paid" from an attorney) or is it

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:06 pm: Edit

LOL , well , you have to consider that there are many many lurkers getting ideas that might be too timid to post (You blame the poor souls?) So when we talk as a group like they arent there , we might get some of the wrong impressions acrost.. Remember , the site gets hit something like 2000 times an hour. Compare that to the people that actually post and you have a shit load of lurkers...Yes we have disclaimers but I would like to think that we can help some new guys get started right...

Kyle

By Blue Gill (Bluegill) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Too timid to post? C'mon - you don't need big brass ones to type an anonymous message...but I do see your point, and you're trying to help people, and a little warm fuzzy feeling is ok now and again...

By Ron on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:10 pm: Edit

And I would feel 10x more comfortable with those guys buying some amsteel than them going out with a winch with wire. Face it the people who are thinking about amsteel have got to have a winch so and they are going to be idiots I rather have them be idiots with amsteel, mcuh safer and it reacts better to stupidity.

Cheers
Ron

I like my yarn hehehehe

By Moe on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Ron you need to talk some sense. So you prefer to have beginners play with rope rather than wire? And how does the rope react better than wire to stupidity?

Ian

By Ron on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 09:46 am: Edit

Well, when wire breaks it snaps, the rope drops to the ground w/o much force. You also can really spool the rope on poorly and not damage it, with wire you can kink it and damage it making the break strength less, therefore I prefer idiots to use the rope than wire.

Ron

By Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 10:17 am: Edit

See there ya go again. And why do they have to be idiots? They just dont know and need to learn. Not just avoid the problem all together. You can fuck yourself just as bad not spooling the yarn right as you can not spooling cable right.


Kyle

By Ron on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:14 am: Edit

Yes Kyle I agree with they need to learn but as I have said before:

There will always be idiots.

Ron