By Nick on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 06:38 pm: Edit

What kind of oil filter should i use on my DII, instead of buying land rover's expensive genuine crap? Is Fram good for land rovers? Thanks for the help!!!!

By Mike B. on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 08:26 pm: Edit

The regular Fram filters are pretty crappy (not enough filter material; to little flow). This is one place that I'd not skimp. Try Rovers North. They sell the filters pretty cheap. Or give Nathan Crabtree a call or email (boatbuggy@aol.com). He was buying the filters by the case and selling them pretty inexpensively.

Thanks,
Mike B.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 10:53 pm: Edit

I assume that the filter didn't change from a D1 to a D2 (can't imagine why - same engine) you can use a Ford or Mopar small block filter. Lots of choices, but as Mike said - Fram sucks. Here are a couple numbers for you on some better filters:

AC Delco Gold - UPF2
Mobil 1 - M1-301
Purolator Pure One - PL30001

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Monday, December 03, 2001 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Purolator told me not to use a PureOne on a Disco; they said to only use the Purolator P25195; that filter is made just for the Rover V8...

FWIW....


-L

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 07:55 am: Edit

Leslie,

Not arguing with you here, but I cannot imagine why they would say that other than as a CYA tactic. After all it's just a filter - it has a good anti-drainback valve - the ROVER V8 is no different in it's oiling system than any other.

I've used all three filters on two Rovers and really haven't been able to detect any difference in performance between them.

Bill

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 08:32 am: Edit

The 25195 is the same size as the factory oil filter...

If you check the Fram books, it says to use a PH16; but take all of the other filters out there and cross-reference back to the Fram and it fomes up with the 8A size (same diameter, just a longer body.

The 16, though, is shorter than the genuine filter, and the 8 is longer.... All are roughly the same size, only different lengths.

What's odd, though....
When I first got the Disco I would hunt down genuine filters, but when I couldn't I'd pick up a Fram 16 (I'm not a fan of them, but it's better than an old dirty filter). Then, looking for a better filter, I got a PureOne, and started having oil pressure problems... it's start to starve out on oil, valves clicking as if it was low on oil (but it wasn't)... That's when I checked w/ Purolator, thinking that I had a bum filter. They said they would guess that the filter was fine, but that I had the wrong size. So, I swapped it out for the 25195, and the problems dissappeared.

Still, I wasn't convinced. After several oil changes later, w/ no problems, I swapped another PureOne back in, and Bam! the problems reappeared... swapped back out (this time to a genuine filter), and the problems went away.

Now, I'm not going to say that everyone out there is going to have problems if they run a Fram 8-size filter, but I know from my personal experience that I'm going to stick with either the 25195 or a genuine. (Which, BTW, I'm suspecting are one in the same.... I haven't confirmed it, but my suspicion is that since Purolator is the only company I can find that makes a filter the same length as the genuine, I think that the are the OEM makers of it. To strengthen this notion, the Purolator air filter for the Rover is almost identical to the genuine air filter, only a slight shade difference in color... it was identical in all other respects. Easily accountable for by one coming from a US plant, the other from a UK plant).

Mi dos centavos....

-L

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 08:38 am: Edit

PS:

Bill,

I'm still wondering to the "why" of it... I, too, would have thought that any of the right diameter should work, so.... I'm puzzled as to my experience...

I'm wondering if the valving is slightly different, or if somehow it alters the oil pressure, or what... I'm not an oil-filter engineer, so I can't give a definitive answer as to why "I" have problems with the larger size of filters on my Rover... I can make some funky analogies to drainage through substrate, and we can talk about playing with k values to determine what the true hydraulic conductivity of the filter is, which IS somewhat applicable, IF you use a lot of imagination...

-L

By Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 08:39 am: Edit

I am using both a Mobil 1 Filter and oil in which I change every 5K. I have not experienced any problems.

V22 Guy

By Jon Williams (Jonw) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 08:39 am: Edit

As far as same filter used for D1/D2, it is (at least for Fram and Purolator).

Lately I've been using the Fram TG16, since now their Tough Guard filters have a better single pass AND double pass rating than the Purolator filters I was using. Seems to be doing fine. Of course, I've never run an oil sediment analysis on used oil from my engine comparing the two filters....

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 08:44 am: Edit

Okay, so I added enough oil to bring it to the full mark with either filter... so there was little extra oil in the one with the larger filter than the smaller, but still to the same level (actually, I fill the filter before installing it, so it would have been added there, but I leave it not-quite-topped off while I get it warm w/ the new oil in there, then adjust.

So, why would the extra oil cause a problem? I don' think it would, if it isn't "extra" to the point of being over the full-mark.

Hmmm.....

-L

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 09:03 am: Edit

Thanks for that info Leslie - interesting - I wish there was a way to draw a conclusion from that. I guess like all other Rover bits - they react differently to filters also. Admittedly I've used the Mobil 1 and AC Delco Ford filters more often that the Pure One, but now I'm going to have to listen a little bit harder next time I put a Pure One on (I think I have 4 left in the garage)

Could oil weight play into it? I use 10w30 or 20w50 in the summer and 5w30 in the winter. I didn't used to switch at all, but notices since going to the 5w30 that the valve clatter on cold morning startup goes away entirely. Not sure how this could play into how the filter works.

Oh well - at best, good info to store away and ponder upon! Thanks again for all the info.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 09:12 am: Edit

Actually, I'm using 5w30, and was thinking of going to 10w30... thinking that maybe it was a tad too light. Hmmm..... Good thing to factor in, tho'....


-L

By PerroneFord on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:13 am: Edit

Our engine runs at much lower oil pressure than other modern engines (about half). The PureOne is quite dense and most likely restricts flow too much. I use the Purolator recommended filter and it works fine.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 11:39 am: Edit

Perrone - I use run an Autometer mechanical gauge and consistently get 48-53 psi at anything above 1200 RPM and at idle it runs about 22-25 psi. This is pretty good oil pressure - I've had lots of SBC's with stock pump springs that only run 40 psi at higher RPM's.

It's a good thought, but it still doesn't really cover the mystery issue of problems on one 4.0 and not on others (mine vs Leslie's) Also - when compared to other premium filters such as Delco Gold and Mobil 1 that have similar filter media why the difference....

By PerroneFord on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 02:27 pm: Edit

Wow... I too run an autometer mech gauge and usually see 12-18 at idle, and about 35-40 at 3500 rpm. I am running 10w-40 in 65-85F weather. How about you?

The shop manual seems to suggest that idle pressure above 10-12 psi is normal. Not saying that more isn't better. Your pressures certainly seem more inline with a SBC.

And it would be good to get one person to try out a few different filters on the same engine and see what the differences are, if any. Somebody ought to do it and document it.

-P

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 03:13 pm: Edit

That makes this situation even stranger - that oil pressure you show seems awfully low in comparison, especially at idle. Maybe the 3.9 is different. I've got a 90 RR, but no gauge in it. How many miles on your mill?

It would be interesting to hear from others that have gauges installed - anyone else out there?

As far as different filters - on mine, I have had no significant pressure differences between using OEM, Mobil 1, Delco gold, Pure One, Fram, and K&N. Also with the differeing winter/summer oil I use - with the 5W30 I get a tad higher max pressure (a couple psi) and no change at idle - just a much quicker "up to pressure" on cold mornings with no valve clatter.

Anyone else?

By bpcsguru on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Here's something pertinent to this discussion: an oil filter study. Its got some interesting information in there.

http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

Boris

By PerroneFord on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:02 pm: Edit

I thought it was low oil pressure too. That's why I consulted the shop manual. I have 98k miles on my 3.9. I was speaking to some long time Rover mechanics at a rally a couple of months ago, and apparently this is quite normal.

-P

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Interesting page. Given the number of "other" filters that are really Purolators, it really lends to the idea that they are OEM for Rover, eh?


-L

By Mike B. on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 07:55 pm: Edit

I've been lead to believe the Rover filters are Wicks (not sure of the spelling). Althoug I've yet to cut the two open to find out.

Thanks,
Mike b.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Wix. That would also be believable, but I can't find a Wix that is the same size as the 'genuine' Land Rover filter. If I could, then it'd be a toss-up as to which it really was....

Do you know of a Wix that is the same size?


-L

By Kingfish (Kingfish) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 08:20 am: Edit

Try comparing a Crosland filter to an OEM Land Rover. Identical. Also, my Croslands are made in ...England! Coincidence?

Also, if anyone cares, thepartsbin.com sells some Mann filters for the 3.9 v8. I bought a couple recently. They are styled like the typical Mann filter, dimensions are just different (length, width of OEM LR filter). These are also very good filters but about $8 each.

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 08:49 am: Edit

i use the crosland filter as well. works for me. comes in a beck/arnley box, but the filter has crosland on it. little pricey, but i'm a sugar daddy.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 08:51 am: Edit

Crosland? I've never heard of Crosland... But if it's identical, AND made in England, then it is a strong candidate....

Where do you find Crosland filters??


-L

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 08:56 am: Edit

i get them at my local foreign car parts store just up the street from my house. great little place. not a national chain or anything. but anyone that sells Beck/Arnley should be able to get them, since that is who distributes them around here at least.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:02 am: Edit

Hmmm....

What's the number for the Crosland that matches the genuine?

I'm gonna have to look around here.....


-L

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:27 am: Edit

The Beck/Arnley # is 0418098
The OEM Rover # is ERR3340
And the Crosland # is 2149

Crosland from what i am told is the OEM for Rover. Beck/Arnley also uses Mann filters, but my local store specifically asks for Crosland.

This is a small parts store here in state college, pa. If you want you can order from there guys and if you order a dozen or more they will certainly cut you or I both a deal.

ps: this is for a '96 D1

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:46 am: Edit

Interesting....


What does the Crosland 2149 sell for each? I'm gonna check local, see if I can dodge shipping, but then I'll check w/ ya and see how good the bulk-rate is, might be worth it in the end...


-L

By gp (Garrett) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:54 am: Edit

i get them for $9.45 each. but if we bought them a dozen at a time they would be $7.15 each.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 10:01 am: Edit

Not any real savings over the genuine, but a bit better when you get 'em by the dozen.


Hmmm.... I'll let you know what I find in my neck of the woods (might be nuthin', but who knows, 'til I look!)....


-L

By Kingfish (Kingfish) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Check out this site. They sell OEM or Crosland. If you buy in bulk, they are cheaper. They also have the "long" filters.

http://www.roverparts.com/product_list.asp?p1=20&i1=ON&v=D1_Discovery+I&c=FILTERS%3A&s1=&srch=&r1=ALL&I4.x=26&I4.y=20

By doug-lwb on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 02:41 pm: Edit

NAPA Gold is made and packaged by WIX..
Works great in mine.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 11:27 pm: Edit

AB's "long" ones were Crosland's, but the short ones were Coopers... don't know Coopers...

Napa/ Wix is the "long" one, which is back to the problem I have... long filters make it act like it's starving for oil, short filters run fine. (Again, this is just MY experience, you shouldn't necessarily expect problems)...

-L

By gp (Garrett) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 08:14 am: Edit

so your saying it's width not length that matters leslie??!!!

on a serious note.....i never noticed the Crosland i have being 'long'. is there more than once 'size' filter from Crosland? (actually made by them) hmmmmm.

By Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 08:39 am: Edit

That's what I was gathering from AB's site....

And it's not how deep you plow, it's how long you stay in the field....


-L