By Seth Smythe (Seth) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 12:34 pm: Edit

I have vibes, and I am going to pull the drivelines this weekend. I'll take it for a drive without the front, then without the rear, and see if I can isolate the problem. I've had the rear off before (replaced rotoflex), but never the front. Is there anything special I need to know / do, or is it pretty straight forward? It's a 95 with an OME HD lift, if that's important.

Thanks,
-SETH

By Scott (Scott_Bowden) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 04:23 pm: Edit

pretty straight forward-

Unless the shaft is bent or the weights came off, vibes are caused when the pinion shaft and the transfer case output shaft are not parallel.
If the u-joint angle is excessive then you will need to get a carden style shaft (two u-joints on the transfer case end)
With a carden style shaft, the pinion and shaft should be in a straight line.

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 04:28 pm: Edit

You may also want to get some new bolts for your drive shaft from the dealer before you take them off. I ended up stripping some of them pretty bad getting mine off. Made life much easier having new ones.

By PerroneFord on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 04:34 pm: Edit

Eric,

Are the bolts on the Disco something exotic? I replaced mine on the RR with 9/16" 3" bolts and nylocs from Lowe's. Worked great for me, and cheap too.

-P

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 04:57 pm: Edit

No Perrone nothing special on my 96. I replaced mine with standard old grade 8s. I would hate to see what the dealer charged for Genuine LR bolts.

By PerroneFord on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:14 pm: Edit

I was thinking the same damn thing. Probably $10 a bolt... nuts extra!

-P

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:15 pm: Edit

I just used the dealer bolts cause it was easier since I was already there any way. The point I was making was get new bolts cause you're probably going to strip one or two. Doesn't really matter where you get them. I really wouldn't feel safe just using any old bolts on my drive shafts though.

By Seth Smythe (Seth) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Thanks for the input, guys. Especially the tip about getting new hardwear beforehand and getting it from someone other than the dealer. The only dealer down here is $cottsdale Landrover, and I won't go to them for anything unless absolutely necessary (even for parts). Man, do I miss LR Alexandria. Home Depot is just down the road, though. As to the carden style shaft, what would be an excessive u-joint angle in the front?

Thanks again,
-SETH

By Eric N (Grnrvr) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:17 pm: Edit

they were a little under 5 bucks each for bolt and nuts.

By Seth Smythe (Seth) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Called the parts desk at the dealer for a price on these, just out of curiousity. He told me they didn't have any nuts, but that the nuts and bolts weren't anything special, and that I should just take one down to a hardwear store and match it. He didn't even give me their price, he just told me it would be faster and cheaper to get them somewhere else.

By Moe on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 06:30 pm: Edit

So when you guys saved big $ by going to Lowes were you able to match bolts exactly? I went straight to the dealer after someone else related a hard time finding the exact replacement. With a small discount, the dealer bolts were not that expensive.

So the threaded vs unthreaded portions of the Lowes' bolts match exactly to the OEM bolts?

By PerroneFord on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Nope, they don't match exactly. Mine are about 1/2" longer than OEM. I've never had a problem with them. And I think I paid about $6-10 for all 8 with the nuts.

-P

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Forty bucks for bolts! . I buy grade 8 nuts and bolts at my local industrial supply for 2.00 a pound!. It's a hell of a deal 3/16 to 3/4". Blue collar supply in Sacramento on Florin-Perkins Rd

By Scott (Scott_Bowden) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Six States Distributors had a technical page on their website at www.sixstates.com , but I could not find it this time.
Just call or e-mail them and they can tell you the best angles to use.

By Moe on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 07:06 pm: Edit

>Nope, they don't match exactly

And this is not a concern? Essentially those Lowes' bolts are weaker than OEM bolts. Assuming equal strength in material, the OEM bolts are stronger because they have a greater absolute thickness than your replacements. Where the OEM bolt is solid, the Lowes' is threaded. Two problems here: the threaded part is weaker to begin with, and the thread will allow for more movent and wear within the hole itself.

Seth, buy the LR replacement bolts.

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Moe wrote:"OEM bolts are stronger because they have a greater absolute thickness than your replacements."

So you sound sure that the LR alloy is high grade. I'm not sold that a hardware store grade 8 bolt is inferior to the stock LR bolt. What make you so sure?

By Moe on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Robert, if you re-read my short post, your quote comes right after I said "assuming equal strength in material". I don't know if the LR 'material' is stronger or weaker than Lowes'. My point was that there is less 'mass' in the threaded portion compared to the solid portion.

By PerroneFord on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Two comments...

First, you misunderstood what I said. The Lowe's bolts I purchased are NOT threaded all the way along the bolt, they are just like the LR OEM bolts but just a little longer than stock.

Second, do you REALLY think that with 4 9/16" grade 8 bolts in a driveshaft, there is ANY concern in shear or shock loading? I'd be quite comfortable with only 2 grade 8 bolts 180 degrees apart on each end.

I believe the stock bolts are 8.8 which is not as strong as Grade 8 anyway. Anyone have a materials spec handbook handy?

-P

By E Snyder on Thursday, December 06, 2001 - 11:05 pm: Edit

If you have a really good hardware store, you can get the bolts in SAE or king's sizing or whatever they call the bolts the brits grabbed out of the bin when they put the Discos together. That way you can match the diameter exactly. If I remember from unhooking the drive shaft to tow my series truck the standard bolts I got from the hardware store were a slightly smaller diameter. You might not want the wear that could come from bolts that aren't quite the right diameter. I was just replacing one so I didn't worry about it. If you had a micrometer handy you could check the diameter precisely against the stock bolts.

By Moe on Friday, December 07, 2001 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Ok Perrone, I did misunderstand you there, but I am still dubious about this advice. I feel in this situation, cheaper is not be better.

As far as running with two bolts 180 degrees apart . . . go ahead and take your chances

By Seth Smythe (Seth) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 12:50 am: Edit

OK, so, I pulled the front driveline and drove around - still have the vibes. Pulled the rear driveline, drove it around - no vibes. So, now what? Everything felt pretty tight when I pulled the rear, and the u-joint and rotoflex were replaced a month or two ago, the same time as the lift, and the same time the vibes started (I din't replace the bushing, but it looked OK, could that be it?) I get a rumble right when I let off or push down on the gas between about 40 and 70 mph. Will a u-joint conversion on the back solve this? New rear links? I have to drive 1200 miles home to Oregon next week, so please, any help would be very greatly appreciated.

By Ali on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:43 am: Edit

Seth,

Park on a level ground. Take the rear ds off and measure the angle of the parking brake drum and the pinion angle. I use a craftman magnetic protrator touching the face of the pinion and brake drum to measure. These angles should be close to each other. Probably your pinion angle is around 5 degrees or more. If you don't want to do all that, just add a couple of mondo washers to each rear trailing arms (between the frame mounting and the current bushing). See if this rotates your pinion angle upward a tad. I say start with 3/8" worth of washers on each side to see if you're closer to matching the angles at the parking brake drum. Do make SURE that there are enough threads on the threaded portion of the trailing arms to fully contact the nylon part of the nuts! On my RTE rear links, I have 3/4" spacers (provided with the links) to rotate the pinion back to a favorable angle of 2.5 degrees.

Good luck and report back your findings!

By Scott (Scott_Bowden) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:49 am: Edit

Drive shaft and pinion angles MUST be correct as I described in earlier posts.
If you still get vibes, you might have to get rid of the roto-flex style shaft and get either a carden or u-joint sytle.

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 10:22 am: Edit

Eeek gads, Moe. Rover magic? Do you really think that the Rover bolts are going to be worlds stronger than Grade 8 bolts? We all should go ahead and remove our custom CV shafts that that are held on with non-rover Grade 8 bolts on the adapter plates.

Tom

By Moe on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Yeah, sorry to break it to you Tom, but in a few short weeks all your aftermarket bolts will fail and only the Genuine LR products will be holding your Rover together

Tom are are you a Rangie owner? Maybe I met you in DC ~ Sep 20 2000 right outside of museum of flight? At the time, you had RTE sliders, Warn 12k in the ARB, and maybe BM springs.

By RVR OVR (Tom) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 02:06 pm: Edit

No, own a Disco I, never been to DC. However, once all the bolts fall off, I'll need a new rig. Maybe a rangie then...

Tom

By Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 04:04 pm: Edit

SO if all of your angle are right will you vibrate...

By Seth Smythe (Seth) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 10:09 am: Edit

I measured the angles last night - it looks as though they are about 3' off. Is this enough to be causing my problem? Will a u-joint driveline take care of this, or do I need to go to a carden style? Or maybe just new rear links?

-SETH

By Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 11:27 am: Edit

what is adouble carden style shaft like

By Ali on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Seth,

If your angles are 3deg off of each other then vibes are probable. Have you tried installing shims/washers to rotate the rear pinion upward? From what i hear, the roto flex does a better job at reducing vibes than UJs!