By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:09 pm: Edit

On top of all my present technical issues with my 96 Disco, the damn power steering pump crapped out this weekend. I have 76,000 miles with a history of power steering line leaks cured by new clamps. The pump is going clack-clack-clack and the pulley is wobbling. A little ATF is leaking out and the steering is groaning when used. I'm keeping a close eye on fluid level, and researching my options. Garaging the truck until I can make repairs is not an option. Just called the dealer for a starting point and the pump lists for $746.00 + $120 labor (certainly not an option). I researched the archives and I realize that Meridian is a good source for rebuilt steering boxes; do they also rebuild the pumps? Any other advice?

Thanks,
Blue
Quickly becoming disenchanted by this POS Land Rover product.

By D Cantrell (Discodad) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:35 pm: Edit

Bluegill

I have a brand new pump form my old 88 RR, It was never used or mounted. I am not sure if it will fit your Disco. Check if it will and make me an offer on it if you want. I don't have the numbers but call around and ask. Brad at Atlantic British is helpful?

DD

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Thanks for the offer. I'll try to determine if your 88 RR pump will fit my 96 Disco. Can anyone on the DiscoWeb offer any input?

By Robert Mann (Oldscout) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 12:47 pm: Edit

I have been eyeing aftermarkt pumps and there are a few that look like they might work with a little fab on the mounts. The one I like, has different metering valves for flow rates.
1.05 GPM

1.32 GPM

1.58 GPM

1.84 GPM

2.11 GPM

2.37 GPM

2.64 GPM

2.90 GPM

3.17 GPM

Here is the pump

and here is the bracket

The whole thing 220.00

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 01:05 pm: Edit

If it'll work, I'll use it. I really don't need anything fancy, nor do I have time & desire to play with fabbing new mounts...I just need something to WORK for once!

Just talked to Meridian about a rebuilt pump...tentative quote of $250 but still waiting for call back to verify. Will discuss RR interchangeability with Meridian.

By Bill Bettridge (Billb) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Blue - check this link - it may be helpful. Looks like you may be able to upgrade pumps at the same time going this route. Though $250 is pretty tough to beat.

http://www.4x4winches.com/zf.html

Bill

By p m on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Blue,

invest in the bracket for a saginaw pump (chevy or jeep).

peter

By D Cantrell (Discodad) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:44 pm: Edit

PM who makes the bracket, I am leaning toward the Mile Maker winch but your are correct in that the LR Pump can not handle the load. Also will the Saginaw work with the serpentine belt?

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:48 pm: Edit

I would also like to go with the Saginaw pump, however, the pump I obtained has a serpentine pulley, but it's too narrow. Anybody know which GM vehicle used a one inch wide serpentine belt? Also, anybody have a source for crimp-on hose ends that will mate to the Rover gear box?

Paul
'95 Disco

By p m on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Paul,

i wanted to point BlueGill to you - have you made the bracket yet? I mean, this is something that will have some market!

check the parts store for the pulley. also, they may be able to crimp on the hose fittings for you.

peter

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Paul, I'll gladly compensate you for the results of your R&D if it proves to be a cost savings!

Inquiring minds want to know.

Discodad - I may pick that pump up from you; still waiting for a definitive answer on whether or not it will work. You're in SDiego, right?

By D Cantrell (Discodad) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 04:40 pm: Edit

SD is home for now until i get fed up with all the Sun Shine, Let me know I am going to post the last remaing items from my old 88

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 04:43 pm: Edit

One more quick question - does anyone know of any way I can temporarily remove the PS pump from the serpentine loop? Looks like there will be way too much slack in the existing belt...

By doug95lwb on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Bg: I have an idea on that shorter serp belt-the orig is I believe 89.xx inches long (same p/n as my 95 4.2) Measure a line of rope around the system, looping just the pulleys you want, take that measurement as a % of the 89.xxinches, then go to Carquest/NAPA and find one that meets the "new measurement". It is a stop-gap which I do not encourage, but in this instance..
In the end you have a $belt that you don't need...
Hope you get it worked out- cheerup...

By hadaz on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 09:02 pm: Edit

I feel for you Bill. I know of the problems that you are having with the Power Steering.....Gets frustrating....

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 09:02 am: Edit

From what I've been able to learn, it appears as though mounting a Saginaw steering pump to a Rover should be a simple bolt-on (except R&D may have to wait for warmer weather). At this point, I'm envisioning an aluminum spacer plate that will bolt to the Rover engine and then merely bolt the pump to the spacer plate.

As for the hoses, I could really use a dead Rover hose to use as a pattern-hint, hint, hint!!! I have been really surprised at the variation in hose-end fittings from the various manufacturers-and I even work for an automotive parts manufacturer! It seems as though everybody has "Their" proprietary fittings.

Now, I also have a Saginaw gear box that may also have some opportunities, however, the bracketry will be much more extensive as they are not nearly as similar in mounting nor shape.

The project is in the works! I finished my lower radiator hose attachment prototype last night. I now have a drain port for my radiator, in addition to a much more robust hose (I can't stand those molded hoses with multiple Tees) and a thermometer well for my coolant temperature gauge. Production models will likely be aluminum as the protoype of brass is too heavy for my liking, but still much better than stock.

Paul
'95 Disco

By Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 09:59 am: Edit

Keep in mind when upgrading the ps pump that the LR pump has around 1000-1100 psi and the Saginaw pumps typically are at 1500psi. The LR steering box can only handle about 1100 psi. I was looking into the ZF pump (1850psi) to power my Milemarker. To make the ZF pump work without problems I'd have to install a pressure relief valve after the winch to avoid problems with the steering box.

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 10:16 am: Edit

Thanx Mike! Given the propensity for these boxes to leak, exerting additional hydraulic pressure could only exacerbate existing problems. I'll look into relief valves.

Got any junk hoses for me to cobble with?

Paul
'95 Disco

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 10:28 am: Edit

UPDATE: PS pump pulley is now all but siezed (metal on metal) and I'm dead in the water. At least I made it into my garage. Now on to finding the solution...

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 11:21 am: Edit

Bluegill:
You made a comment concerning a way to remove the pump from the "Circuit". Jeg's (www.jegs.com) has an idler pulley for a similar purpose. This might get you back on the road until you can find a suitable longer term solution.

The idler pulleys offered by Jeg's are intended to replace the AIR pump on race cars, etc. I'm certain that if you were to purchase one with a one inch serpentine belt pulley, you would have little problem bypassing your power steering pump.

Good Luck, I'm afraid I may be in the same boat.

BTW-Did your power steering system start to sound like a mad cat before failure? Mine growls as you turn the wheels-hence my investigation into alternatives.

Paul
'95 Disco

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Paul,

I just ordered a used PS pump from Aaron Auto for $150 - it'll be here in Phx Friday so I think I'm set. Thanks to Discodad for the offer of your RR pump, but the word on the street is that they are different. I'll just let the Disco sit in the doghouse until I can swap the pumps.

My steering sounds like a cat that has been doused in gas and lit up for the holidays. I started the Disco this morning and heard the screech of metal on metal (pulley shaft on PS pump is rubbing housing); I also heard that wail when I turned the wheels and I knew I couldn't drive it.

What a pain in the ass. I think this truck is destined for the trade-in lot, depending on how much MORE money I stand to lose on this money pit.

By D Cantrell (Discodad) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Bluegill

If you look in my version of Webster's the term money pit is defined by

Money Pit = Land Rover \dis'kever\ vb \-(e)re\n -dis-cov-ery : To diminish ones emotional control and deplete ones fortune in the pursuit of Off Road excellence

DD

By p m on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

LOL

Paul, where do you think of putting the Saginaw pump? between the alt. and a/c pump? or in stock location?

peter
p.s. i might have an old saginaw p/s hose laying around. need it?

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:59 pm: Edit

Peter:
I was going to do as close as possible to a direct replacement as I can. I think I can retain the original belt routing, and with some creative spacer machining, I can even orient the Saginaw pump so that the fill port is vertical.

Thanx for the offer of the Saginaw hose, but the girlfriend/fiance has a friend who owns a boneyard... I can get many Saginaw hoses for nothing, but I don't have a Rover hose I can play with. Thanx all the same.

I am going to make this work! Somehow, the thought of being able to use a $35.00 boneyard PS pump appeals to my CB mentality-or as Perrone puts it, my Cheap SOB mentality!

I'm still working on making a Rangie from a single block of aluminum! Man will there be some chips in the basement from that one or what? Maybe, I'll start with a 4.6 engine:-)

Paul

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 01:06 pm: Edit

>"I'm still working on making a Rangie from a single block of aluminum! Man will there be some chips in the basement from that one or what?"

this should be simple - just start with the block and chip away everything that doesn't look like a Range Rover.

LOL on the money pit definition, too. So why does this shit all hit at once, and near the holidays? I keep the wife's car outside now and the Disco in the garage because I know that those two machines talk all night in the garage and lay plans to fuck my shit up...

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 01:11 pm: Edit

will the Saginaw fit in the original PS pump location? There's not much space between the pulley and fan...there's also that odd bend in the rigid fluid hose that just clears the pulley & belt (although I imagine you'd have entirely new supply lines with the new pump)...

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit

The saginaw pump that I obtained from the boneyard for my experimentation is slightly shorter front to back compared to the Rover pump.
The dimension from pulley face to fan will remain as original so as to maintain the alignment of the pulleys.

My intention is to replace the hoses with high pressure hydraulic hoses. I suspect that I can either bend or fabricate suitable hoses or fittings without much problem. I really consider the hoses to be less of a problem than mounting the pump to the front of the engine, and that I don't expect to be all that great of a problem. The ports on the pump should be oriented in a fashion that will allow me great flexibility.

Especially since the Saginaw pump is not as deep as the Rover pump-and it has its own reservoir, thus making it even harder to resist the second battery and snorkel.Worst case, I hard pipe as much as I can and only use the flex lines to allow for the engine to move under hard acceleration (oops, its a Rover).

With the pump bolted to a solid aluminum spacer plate, the setup should be rigid as all get out.

I have access to both hydraulic hoses and a fitting crimper here at work. I just need the hose ends and if I can find a sympathetic friend who can provide me with a Rover hose, I can have some more background to work with to find hose ends that will match.


Paul
'95 Disco

By p m on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Blue,

exactly my thoughts - why all shit breaks just before the holidays? still have the cheap cats to send back to summit...

Paul - wish i had an old hose for you. OTOH, you never know - BAM! and all of a sudden i need a new hose.... (shudder) and old hose goes to Paul...

peter

By Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 12:00 am: Edit

Bluegill --

Sorry I didn't see this before you ordered a used pump from Aaron. Meridian sells a rebuilt pump with a lifetime warranty for $210.00, plus they'll give you $60.00 for your rebuildable core.

I replaced the pump and steering box on my '95 with Meridian units a couple of months ago and they work great -- no leaks whatsoever.

Only problem was that they were out of stock for a long time on the pumps -- I finally found a rebuildable core on this board to send them. If Meridian is out of stock on pumps, I'm getting ready to send them back my core so they should have that one in stock if you want to reserve it.

---Norm

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 - 09:58 am: Edit

Thanks, Norm. I went through Meridian before Aaron but Meridian was out of stock with no timeline for pump availability. I have to get back on the road by Monday, so I ordered through Aaron. I also realized that Discount Rovers (Nathan Crabtree) has great prices on new pumps, but this Aaron salvaged pump will get me going.

By D Cantrell (Discodad) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 12:13 am: Edit

Paul,
E Mail me in a few weeks and if you pay the shipping ill send you my old PS hoses, I am waiting on Nathan for a full set, I am determined to have the Disco stop marking its territory. 6k for a new driveway and it’s spotted with oil...

DD

By Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 09:55 am: Edit

DD:
You're on!
Fortunately, my driveway has had thirty years of my hot rods dripping on it and I'm not even able to notice the Rover droppings.

I got your e-mail address. Why don't you e-mail me at PTSCHRAM@hotmail.com when you get your new ones. That way I won't be bothering you!

Thank you very much. If BTL Engineering ever gets off the ground, I'll put you on the Christmas Card list:-).

Paul
'95 Disco

By D Cantrell (Discodad) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Paul,
email from the Rover Crowd is no bother at all

Dee

By Matt Rigby (Mrigby) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Bluegill,
Could you please post the contact info (website or phone number) for Meridian? I have a PS pump core I want to have rebuilt as an extra to carry. Getting stranded once already was not fun. Thanks in advance
Matt

By Ron on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit

It is on this site already

Use the keyword search feature on the side

<-------

Not the one on top which sucks.

Ron

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 07:05 pm: Edit

1-800-874-1974 Meridian

took me a while to realize that the search engine to the left works whereas the one up top doesn't...

By Mike P on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 12:33 am: Edit

Bill,
You need to get a truck with a nice 100k extended warranty from a dealer. Then you can let a lot of little shit pile up, hand them the keys and 100 bucks and smile as you drive away in your free loaner car. I lost a fuel pump on vacation out in the middle of nowhereville Oregon. Those poor LR bastards paid for the 350mi. tow each way ($1100). If your more than 150 mi. from a dealer they will pay the roundtrip tow. I'll never own a truck out of warranty... I like my sleep....and other bed related activities, if you get my drift.
Mike
You ever post those photos?

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 11:28 am: Edit

Yeah, I know I know. I'm lurking the dealer's lot for a nice 99 DI with balance of factory warranty that I can trade this 96 in on. 100k extended warranty too would be best.

post what photos?

By Mike P on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Those Truckhaven ones of you doing the wheelie. To bad you only have one dealer. I have a couple buddies that work for dealers over here in LA, they found me just what I wanted in a week or two. When you get ready it may be worth your while to find one on this side of the Colorado. I think Dealer prices are more competetive over here (theres like 7 of them!).
Mike

By Bluegill (Bluegill) on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Oh, those pics - yeah, Ho just posted them the other day. Nice shots, Mike.

There used to be 2 dealers here, but LR Scottsdale bought out LR Phoenix from what I heard. Nothing like eliminating the competition in lieu of lowering prices and/or improving customer service. Now I have to go up to Vegas or to LA for an alternate. I'd shop those other dealers, but I'm afraid of what might happen if I take a Rover I bought in LA to LR Scottsdale for warranty work. (I only live 1 mile from LRS, does that tell you all anything?)

If I can pick up a 97 or 98 with extended aftermarket warranty, then LRS is a moot point since any SAE certified mechanic will do. Who knows...I have to weigh my options. At this rate I will soon have replaced all the critical components in this 96 anyway!

By old4x4 on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Try www.thepartsbin.com You can get one for $303.00. I get all my parts from these people. They're the BEST!!!!!