Kneeling NFL players

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
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182
minnesota
Eagles receiver Torrey Smith, the son of an Army veteran, explained that he never participated in an anthem demonstration until Trump took aim at NFL players. Both he and Villanueva embraced the nuance, and the empathy, often missing from the polarizing debate over anthem demonstrations. “I understand why some people may be offended by people protesting during the national anthem,” Smith said. “My father served 25 years. When my dad dies, he’s going to be wrapped in an American flag, and that’s something that is special to him. But my dad also is out of the Army, and he drives trucks all over the country, and he’s a black man everywhere he goes, and sometimes he has racial incidents still today. So that doesn’t protect him, just because he served our country. He’s been to Iraq plenty of times. That doesn’t protect him from certain things that still exist in our society. I think that’s important. If you ask him, he’ll tell you, ‘I fought for people’s freedom to exercise that. Is that the avenue I would choose? No. But, I put my life on the line for that right.’ ”
 

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
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Genesee, CO USA
I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Do I dress well enough to live in her basement?

Ask her if my attire is suitable because I've there currently?

Regardless, Hawaii homes don't have basements dude.

If you live in your mom's basement (which is a figure of speech here on the mainland), I can understand if you might need a little advice about which shoes to wear with which outfit.
As an example, shiny black dress shoes don't look good with shorts.
If you didn't know this already, your mom probably does.

Isn't Hawaii the place where sandals with socks is OK?
I mean, other than Boulder.
If that's the case, let's just drop this whole "appropriate shoe" thing.
 

1920SF

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Jan 6, 2007
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NoVA

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
http://theresurgent.com/donald-trump-did-not-start-this-but-he-will-finish-it-and-he-will-win/

Mike was most accurate at the start of this thread. Opinions on this don't matter. Both sides. From the I don't like it crowd to the it's their right crowd.

Trump doesn't need viewership to make money. The NFL does. Ask Kaepernick how his kneeling is going.

Hard to argue with the logic. Everything Trump does is strategic. To think otherwise is simply following your followers, and thinking like the "thinkers".

I honestly do feel sorry for people who think Trump is a full blown racist and a moron. What a hard 7 years and 3 months they will have.
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,690
182
minnesota
If you live in your mom's basement (which is a figure of speech here on the mainland)

Yeah I know. The way you worded it was...funky.

Isn't Hawaii the place where sandals with socks is OK?
I mean, other than Boulder.

Heavens no! :D

Socks and sandals is a Boulder thing. Probably an Oregon and North Cali thing too :smilelol:

But yeah, slippers (thongs as they are known here) are commonplace. Even on the job if you arent employed somewhere that requires shoes (such as a non-customer-facing IT office).

let's just drop this whole "appropriate shoe" thing.

Maybe thats part of it.

Maui in the 80's and 90's (even in large part today) was a place where the only people wearing ties were limo drivers and Jehovahs Witnesses.

If youre in a beachy area, 25% of people might not even be wearing shirts.

When you live in a place where its 80s and sunny 90% of the year, only idiots wear long pants and collars when its not absolutely required.

Why go though the day horribly uncomfortable just for bizarrely rigid mainland norms?
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
So far as I'm concerned, it's a dick move.

That said, if it's not part of the Flag Code, the Constitution, or mentioned in the Federalist Papers (not possible, as we haven't had the anthem that long) they have a right to kneel. I don't approve, but my approval doesn't matter.

In this nation, you have a right to be offended, or disapprove of behavior. You rarely have a right to do anything about it beyond gripe a bit. It's an important part of what makes this nation what it is.

That includes you and me. When I think about things like this, I always consider what I might want to legally do that others find distasteful, and how annoyed I am when people try to disallow the things I find important or personally enjoy.

Honestly, this is probably one of those things that would stop if people stopped talking about it so much. If there's no attention being offered for protest, there's no sense bothering to protest. Anyone doing it would just look like a right heel to the rest of the team.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

gimebakmybulits

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2013
1,067
85
Pasadena
Unsurprising.

More or less the reality of the situation; people who actually are in the business of defending the country when prompted to describe what they think of either side of the NFL kneeling debate pretty much can answer with:

I don't think about it at all.

It simply isn't actually substantive.

Really Colonel? Maybe you shouldn't be so bold as to think you speak for the rest.

"I spent 37 years defending freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Nothing is more important to this democracy. Nothing! However, while no one should be compelled to stand, they should recognize that by sitting in protest to the flag they are disrespecting everyone who sacrificed to make this country what it is today -- as imperfect as it might be.
Those that believe the flag represents oppression should remember all the Americans who fought to eliminate bigotry, racism, sexism, imperialism, communism, and terrorism. The flag rode with the Buffalo Soldiers of the 9th, 10th, 24th and 25 Cavalry and Infantry Regiments. It was carried by the suffragists down the streets of New York City. It flew with the Tuskegee Airmen of WWII. It was planted in the fields where Cesar Chavez spoke. It marched with Martin Luther King Jr. It rocketed into space on the shoulder patches of women, gay, Hispanic, Asian and African American astronauts. Today, it waves high over the White House. It is a flag for everyone, of every color, of every race, of every creed, and every orientation, but the privilege of living under this flag does not come without cost. Nor should it come without respect.


The nation and everything it strives for is embodied in the American Flag. We strive to be more inclusive. We strive to be more understanding. We strive to fix the problems that plague our society. But in striving to do so, we must have a common bond; some symbol that reminds us of our past struggles and propels us to a brighter, more enlightened future. That symbol is the American flag."
William H. McRaven
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
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Briggs's Back Yard
Really Colonel? Maybe you shouldn't be so bold as to think you speak for the rest.
Giant quote

If you read that it actually doesn't support your initial statement. Ray didn't say the flag is meaningless. Just as McRaven didnt say anything about the protesters except they should understand what they are doing when they kneel.
 

gimebakmybulits

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2013
1,067
85
Pasadena
If you read that it actually doesn't support your initial statement. Ray didn't say the flag is meaningless. Just as McRaven didnt say anything about the protesters except they should understand what they are doing when they kneel.

"people who actually are in the business of defending the country when prompted to describe what they think of either side of the NFL kneeling debate pretty much can answer with:
I don't think about it at all."
LtCol LRG

"they should recognize that by sitting in protest to the flag they are disrespecting everyone who sacrificed to make this country what it is today"
Admiral McRaven

That is not saying "I don't think about it at all" and the five Marines in my family don't agree with him either nor do any of my former LEO co-workers or any of my fellow vets that I still communicate with. So in short, he should only speak for himself.
 

1920SF

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Jan 6, 2007
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NoVA
"people who actually are in the business of defending the country when prompted to describe what they think of either side of the NFL kneeling debate pretty much can answer with:
I don't think about it at all."
LtCol LRG

"they should recognize that by sitting in protest to the flag they are disrespecting everyone who sacrificed to make this country what it is today"
Admiral McRaven

That is not saying "I don't think about it at all" and the five Marines in my family don't agree with him either nor do any of my former LEO co-workers or any of my fellow vets that I still communicate with. So in short, he should only speak for himself.

Of course I speak for myself; this is Dweb-not official USMC policy.
That said, given the choice between ADM McRaven's sentiment on it vs Gen Mattis; I'm with Mattis.

That's without parsing out some of the inherent fallacies of what ADM McRaven's statement holds-afterall the very same flag road into battle on the side of plenty of wrong too (in many ways the very essence of what I think most of these NFL players are protesting after they got goaded into it by the distraction offered out of the WH, ironically. Nevermind that the idea they can protest it is the very essence of the freedom it represents, that doesn't play well with the outraged patriot crowd). That somehow folks think what professional atheletes do at a sporting context matters is about as relevant as what the Kardashians think of patriotism, the flag, etc.

Too me that's the biggest issue here-not the protests that center around the flag/anthem; that folks assume that the NFL's actions have anything to do with actual patriotism, it is a trite display. The appropriation of what is patriotic and what isn't, by either side of the aisle, is unbecoming and it is all done under the auspice of pandering to begin with.

Or back to the SecDef's thoughts, they stand alone and I'm comfortable where he is focused. If veterans want to be outraged, fine-join the circus-afterall, we are all entitled to our opinions and most can express it however they want.
 

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
Unsurprising.

More or less the reality of the situation; people who actually are in the business of defending the country when prompted to describe what they think of either side of the NFL kneeling debate pretty much can answer with:

I don't think about it at all.

It simply isn't actually substantive.

That's is my exact response to people who say 'hey you're a veteran this must really piss you off' and that's only when they don't just automatically assume it would piss me off.

This is nothing more than division. Plain and simple. Trump is exploiting the American public the same way he performed business deals.

You have a property you want to buy. 2 other investors want to buy it. What do you do?
You get dirt on the two people and use that information to create leverage.

It's the same thing now but he's pitting the black anti American flag haters against the good hard workin white guys.

It's nothing more. Now the alt left's main talking point is how this nation was founded on white supremacy! No dummies it was white Anglo Saxon Protestant colonialism! The non wasp Europeans were treated like filth. Granted they weren't enslaved and pushed off land like the indigenous but they were second class.

I really really hope people wise thebfuck up and start seeing what's really going on. Russia is sitting back and laughing
 

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
Yeah the executives at equifax did some devious shit BUT most Americans, the ones getting fucked in the ass every day by corporate and financial industries, are only concerned( that a bunch of convicted felons and millionaires who don't impact the financial well being of any American) about not standing for the anthem?????

Wake the fuck up and see the bigger anti American shit going on!
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
That's is my exact response to people who say 'hey you're a veteran this must really piss you off' and that's only when they don't just automatically assume it would piss me off.

This is nothing more than division. Plain and simple. Trump is exploiting the American public the same way he performed business deals.

You have a property you want to buy. 2 other investors want to buy it. What do you do?
You get dirt on the two people and use that information to create leverage.

I really really hope people wise thebfuck up and start seeing what's really going on. Russia is sitting back and laughing

Exactly.

i don't expect, nor want, to agree with everyone on everything-but all this is is a pandering distraction.
 

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
I can see where our service members would be the bigger people and say 'Doesn't bother me, I protect that freedom.' but deep down it must hurt to some extent, at least, for a number of them.

I think it pisses a good majority of civilians off to no end, 64% to be exact. I know that's how I feel. To see those clowns kneeling down with the color guard standing proudly in the background during the middle of our anthem is a slap in the face to every one of our service members, Police, Firemen, first responders and on and on. We have one major time that we honor these folks and these dickwads are out there fucking around.

On the last photo, let's not forget why this all started...