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  #1  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:49 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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I decided a while back to start over and re-imagine how the vehicle is wired.

Here's the first note.

Rather than placing all the batteries in a rear cage, I'm going to leave one in the front. The Aedofab tray always sat a little high, so I'm making another to give a bit more room. I'll use the empty space to mount a small Pelican case in which the copper bars will be installed, threaded, and fitted with studs.

Using a 34/78 Northstar battery, I'll shrink two cables into an "L" shape, one for positive and negative. They will pass through the case wall via marine bulkhead pass-throughs for corrosion prevention as well as strain and abrasion relief. So, from the top, you'll just see two wires cleanly sliding down the side of the battery into the side of the case.

The case itself will function as the housing for a "distribution block". Rather than using audio hardware that's nice, but difficult to service in the field, I'm going with 100% marine hardware and wiring. I just got lucky as fuck, in that regard. Overton's store here closed up for renovation, and everything was 75% off; and I got most of the wire, terminals, and lugs.

I'll run positive and negative to the rear of the vehicle where another distribution block will be fitted. Overall, I'll be using less wire than before, and it'll be clean and up to any level of vibration. I'd love to see a fucking grounding issue with this setup.

Never had a problem before, either, but this will be a pretty clean setup. Using a 34/78 will leave easily accessible top terminals for temporary power needs and jumping other vehicles. So long as the option is available, it doesn't make sense not to use it. The price difference is negligible at that point.

Obviously, none of the graphic is to scale, and it's just a loose illustration to keep my addled mind on track.

I don't normally post what I'm up to, as I never know when I'll have time to give progress updates, but I figured I'd at least try to start.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:25 AM
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AfiRover AfiRover is offline
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well hurry up and get started
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2018, 08:20 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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I intend to as soon as reasonably possible, but this is how I do things:

1: Come up with the most NASA shit I can.

2: Find the easiest way to accomplish the same goal, even if it's ghetto.

3: Drag the high tech back toward it as far as required for practicality (this point).

4: Attempt to come up with as many reasons as possible that it's a stupid way to do it.

5: Adjust as required.

6: Step out and see how it's going to actually work in the vehicle.

7: Adjust as required.

The end result is generally much better this way. I don't feel I stepped far enough back from NASA last time. That Teflon-insulated, silver plated, high strand count wire was obscene. The marine stuff is a more sensible choice.

Likewise, while audio hardware is outstanding for high vibration, organization, overall durability, and solid conductivity, it's not as easy to use in the field. I've always managed, but in the end I continually found myself cursing hex wrenches and the lack of hasty adaptability. The stuff never corroded or came loose, though.

Moving to ring terminals/conventional lugs allows easier alterations and maintenance, even if it's more likely to loosen up. Any corrosion issues are handled by distribution systems in sealed enclosures and the tinned marine stuff; hopefully.

I've always been a big fan of eliminating as many body/chassis ground points as possible. One inch copper square bar may seem like overkill, but it allows extremely secure mounting and solid grounds with far less resistance and potential for failure over time. It also gives me room to machine some Delrin mounts for them if I decide that's the best way to go, and to have plenty of extra threaded areas for connections at the front of the vehicle.

Still scratching my head about how I want to link the batteries, as those damnable Aussies have peppered the market with DC/DC charger nonsense, but I'll dig back through it and find the way I want to do things.

In the end, I'd like to have the ability to run gear off the auxiliary battery, as well as use it to jump the primary starting battery when needed. Lord knows there are about twenty ways to do that, and a hundred different ways to accomplish each.

I simply never liked parallel. It's better to just use a higher capacity battery and be done with the affair.

This may still be moved eventually, as I want to lighten the front end, but for now it'll be nice, and anything I make for it will keep the potential relocation in mind.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2018, 08:26 AM
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mbrummal mbrummal is offline
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You might consider something like this for connecting the batteries...


https://www.bluesea.com/products/762..._-_12V_DC_500A


That's what I have on mine.
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2018, 10:29 AM
kennith kennith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrummal View Post
You might consider something like this for connecting the batteries...


https://www.bluesea.com/products/762..._-_12V_DC_500A


That's what I have on mine.
Actually, that looks like a pretty darn ideal solution. I might just go with that.

I was looking around at more boat stuff, and I think some of those bus bars may be okay in the vehicle.

Depends on various things, in the end, but if they can take the amps and vibration, as well as avoid being bent or otherwise damaged easily, that's good. It's better than making them, anyway, if they'll do the job. It won't be a big deal to try them out. If I have to make something later, I'll just use the same mounting pattern.

I just can't stand having a bunch of wires cluttered all over batteries, and right now, I've got a rat's nest.

That's what happens when you slap something back into service so quickly, though.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2018, 01:21 PM
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jim-00-4.6 jim-00-4.6 is offline
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My understanding of things boat-related is adding "marine" to anything increases the price by one zero at the end.
Why don't you just buy copper busbars from somewhere like https://stormpowercomponents.com/?
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2018, 01:41 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim-00-4.6 View Post
My understanding of things boat-related is adding "marine" to anything increases the price by one zero at the end.
Why don't you just buy copper busbars from somewhere like https://stormpowercomponents.com/?
I just like tapping different industries and trying different things. Last time it was aerospace, and this time I think it's going to be marine stuff or things I make that will be similar.

I was going to make my own, and pretty much replicate what they've already done. I can't easily plate or tin the things. It may not really matter, but I'd like it that way if possible. I scored a great deal on a bunch of wire already, so I'm doing fine on overall cost.

It's not as if I need twenty of the things. Two for the front will be sufficient, if I keep going down this particular road. I still need to pull the tray and decide how much of what I want to do can be done with minimal modifications or new, reasonable construction.

The rear stuff can be handled later on.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:07 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Here's the idea a little more refined.

I just have to stare at it for a while, and imagine what I might want to do where in the future.

Some of the panels will double as heat shields and mounting locations, but where they will go is up in the air.

First thing is to roughly mock it all up on the Aedofab tray as it came. Then I'll see where the cables will have to be routed in reality. I might end up replacing the ones on my 9.5 TI to get a cleaner installation.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #9  
Old 09-23-2018, 01:39 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Nope.

It's not going to work as I was hoping. So far as I've determined, the factory tray arrangement is the only one that really works up there. If I want it in the front, I'll need to replicate that arrangement. I can't stand that corner of the vehicle.

The Aedofab tray never really worked properly. It sits too high because it really doesn't have much of a choice.

To do this properly, I'd need to sink the tray at the radiator support, and the raised portion would extend rearward. That lip upon which many things are grounded would be ignored in favor of the bus bar, but I still might need a connection there, so a cutout would be required just in case.

This will take more thinking, but I still like the basic idea.

I may have to put the battery in the rear, after all. I don't mind the starter running that far, but I've never been too happy about the winch. I'd probably need to use my 1/0 cable again for extended operation, but it's not overly easy to fit under the cover of a 9.5ti. I ended up with a situation that was not to my preference before to make it happen.

As much as I like that winch, I'd more than likely need to switch to one with a remote solenoid, or at least one with connections that are more accessible, but that leaves the issue of removal. With a run that long, I'd need a disconnect again for convenience without that external solenoid.

That wheel well drives me batty. I never liked this tray, but I've never seen another off the rack product that works, either. I was hoping to get through this with minimal headache, but it looks like it's going to be business as usual when it comes to battery mounting.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #10  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:15 PM
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I don't follow, but I'm not that familiar with the series 2. Why can't the batteries go under the hood? I've seen many that have dual batteries in what I thought was the factory location.

Putting them in the cargo area sounds inconvenient, expensive, and an increased fire risk
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  #11  
Old 09-23-2018, 04:13 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
I don't follow, but I'm not that familiar with the series 2. Why can't the batteries go under the hood? I've seen many that have dual batteries in what I thought was the factory location.

Putting them in the cargo area sounds inconvenient, expensive, and an increased fire risk
Those using a flat tray in there, or a tray other than the factory tray that doesn't replicate it, are simply too close to the hood. If you see two batteries side by side up there, someone has gone through a lot of trouble trying to get those terminals and wires to fit (or are simply relying on the hood liner to reduce the risk of shorting), and it's annoying when they need to be moved. If you see one toward the rear of the engine bay, I'd hope there is a heat shield back there somewhere.

I've had parallel up there, and it's a damned pain in the ass.

The DII engine bay is tight everywhere you'd want to put a battery aside from the factory well. Without looking, I was hoping to set something up with the battery's longest dimension longitudinal in relation to the frame, mounted upright. Turns out all I have to do is rotate the concept. That's what it looks like at a glance, anyway. I'm not measuring yet.

There's nothing wrong with having them in the rear. Just use Northstars or Diehard Platinum/Odyssey and vent them like any manufacturer would. Starting is not an issue, and while winching isn't technically a problem, you're still running quite a way. I used 1/0 OFC 4072 strand cable, but near the winch I had to get creative. Most winches wouldn't present the same issue.

Expensive, yes; but over $600 in batteries far eclipses any extra rear-mounting expense. Inconvenient or unsafe? No. It's perfectly fine so long as they are vented. Hell, you can use flooded cells if you want; just put them in similarly appropriate enclosures.

In the past, I used a cage that bolted to the factory second row seat mounts. That housed two batteries, a 10" subwoofer, amplifiers on one side, and on the other jump posts, inverter outlets, DC outlets, and some other odds and ends. Open the passenger rear door, and it was all there and easy to reach. The front seats still reclined a decent amount; enough for me to take naps.

I still had nearly the entire cargo bay to play with. Mind you, I don't keep the second row seats installed, and I'm not eight feet tall like the rest of you genetic obscenities.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #12  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:10 AM
kennith kennith is offline
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Looks like I've got a better way to do it using the factory tray as a pattern. Rotating it all backwards seems like it's going to work just fine. If I keep it clean, it should be easy to maintain and slick under there.

I should be able to use it just fine in the rear if I want, as well.

I honestly don't believe, at this point, that there's a good way to get two under the hood without removing the air box. I'm still not too keen on having a battery up there from a weight and handling perspective, but as noted, I should be able to move it to the rear when I'm ready to build the lightweight bumper and swap out to a lighter winch and line.

We'll see how much it costs to make, and how long. I can weld, but I suck. So, I'll be mocking it up, and my neighbor will be doing the assembly. Still some fine tuning to do, and figuring out the best way to maximize the utility without covering up things that need access, but I don't think that'll be a problem.

Designing things ahead of time seems stupid, but it forces you to think in strange ways, and can help you solve future problems.

Cheers,

Kennith
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:30 PM
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AfiRover AfiRover is offline
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kennith
draw it up and have it built if that's not your thing, so what get what you want :-)
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  #14  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:36 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Originally Posted by AfiRover View Post
kennith
draw it up and have it built if that's not your thing, so what get what you want :-)
Oh, I always let someone else weld things up. I can't weld to my own standard.

I'd actually like to make this out of aluminum, but steel makes a little more sense here. It keeps it more simple.

Quite a bit of this will probably be done on a brake, actually, so there won't be too much in the way of welding. Still, so long as there's any welding at all, it may as well be done by someone who's better than me.

Cheers,

Kennith
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:03 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Damn. I've been lucky with the hardware. Batteries Plus just sold me a Northstar 34/78 for $280.

Northstar finally listened, as well. They're self-branding their shelf units now. I've been hounding them about that for a while.

The one I got still says X2 Power, but I wasn't going to pass up the deal. The new shipment had the updated labels.

That's fine. They'll send me a sticker if I ask nicely.

There's a $20 mail-in rebate right now if anyone wants a bad ass battery.

Cheers,

Kennith
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