LWB Classic Front Wheel Hopping

**gl4x4** · #1 12-12-2017, 12:55 PM

Kind of hard to explain what is going on. But its as if when I hit a small imperfection in the road my front end starts hopping.

I'm running a dual set of shocks up front. Two sets of OME shocks. Plus HD Front springs with a Terrafirma axle spacer. Its giving me about 3 inches of lift, because I have a 6.2 GM diesel engine, RTE Front bumper and a winch.

I replaced the track rod bushings about 500 miles ago as well.

Everything was fine, but my old tie rod ends were toast. I replaced everything with new Terrafirma HD steering parts, including the steering dampener. I just had it aligned yesterday hoping that was the problem. It didn't fix anything. Well, that's not true, by steering wheel is lined up right again.

I also checked the pitman arm, and its tight as can be. I even took the nut off and put some lock tight on it when I reinstalled it.

I've been told to throw some new radius arm bushings on it, and also to set the pre-load on the swivel balls. If I'm going to do the swivel balls, I might as well go with a rebuild kit. All those are pretty inexpensive things to fix, if I do it myself.

A picture of my beater.

**gl4x4** · #2 12-12-2017, 01:53 PM

Is there anyone out there? LOL

Man this place is dead anymore.

**p m** · #3 12-12-2017, 02:05 PM

No it isn't. It was offline for half an hour, that's all.

Do look at your swivels' preload. It is easy to do (ignoring for a while all factory recommendations), just take the top swivel pin out; there is usually one thick and a few thin steel spacers. Take off the thin ones and put it back with one thick spacer.
You may end up over-loading the swivel pin bearing, but it is not very likely. I found that, by the time I decide to get into it, I already need spacers thinner than the thick one left from the factory.

**Tugela** · #4 12-12-2017, 02:22 PM

If you are going to go to the trouble of getting into the swivels, you might as well do a full rebuild. You don't say what year, but the youngest the truck could be is 23 years and if you don't have the service history who knows when was the last time this part was serviced. I did a complete swivel rebuild on my Disco a couple years ago. It was straightforward and not very time consuming. The handling improvement was well worth it. And spend the extra few cents for a selection of preload washers of different thicknesses. PT Schram sent me an envelope full of them for a couple bucks. Some jobs you can cut corners on, but when it comes to steering I'm a believer in spending a little extra time and money to do it right the first time.

**gl4x4** · #5 12-12-2017, 02:52 PM

Cool, The swivel balls look okay. I'll see if PT has a seal kit with new races and bearings.

It has 193K on it so far, well, that's where it was before I put the engine and crap in it. So, they may be dead. Believe it or not, but I'm the second owner. I've had it for about 2.5 years now.

**Shiftonthefly1** · #6 12-12-2017, 03:38 PM

I ran into to this same issue w my D1. The swivel rebuild and arm bushings fixed it.

Btw how do you like the 6.2? Is there a build thread somewhere on the swap? I’ve seen the red one on you tube but that guy doesn’t go into much detail about the technical bits. He’s has longer videos of him filling it w old oil etc. while cool...I’d love to see what it took to get it going. Thanks in advance

**p m** · #7 12-12-2017, 03:47 PM

Let's make some distinction: it takes about 30 min to tweak the swivel preload (per side, including taking the wheels off and putting them back on).

Full swivel rebuild is a far more involved job. Count on a full day for both sides, if you take time to clean the crud off the parts.

**Shiftonthefly1** · #8 12-12-2017, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p m

Let's make some distinction: it takes about 30 min to tweak the swivel preload (per side, including taking the wheels off and putting them back on).

Full swivel rebuild is a far more involved job. Count on a full day for both sides, if you take time to clean the crud off the parts.

Agreed. I like the idea of doing this on the fly just to see. Especially if you plan to do a full rebuild in the future. Who cares if the bearing gets overloaded temporarily. It'll get replaced in a full rebuild anyway

**gl4x4** · #9 12-12-2017, 04:41 PM

Best thing by far I have done to the range rover. I've owned quite a few with 3.9's and 4.2's and a P38 with a 4.6.

The 6.2 moves this thing pretty good. Its more reliable than the 4.2 and so much easier to work on. Because I never have to do a thing to it. It just runs. Fuel mileage is between 15-22 mpg. Yes its louder than the old engine. But who cares.

Here's a couple videos of it. I need to get some more going, but just haven't had the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huk00836V2k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV2PpT4cJ5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqYgtRs-6A&t=52s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWybH2OCRf0&t=126s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiftonthefly1

I ran into to this same issue w my D1. The swivel rebuild and arm bushings fixed it.

Btw how do you like the 6.2? Is there a build thread somewhere on the swap? I?ve seen the red one on you tube but that guy doesn?t go into much detail about the technical bits. He?s has longer videos of him filling it w old oil etc. while cool...I?d love to see what it took to get it going. Thanks in advance

**Shiftonthefly1** · #10 12-12-2017, 05:23 PM

Wow thanks for posting that. Sorry to hyjack your thread. I have about 10,000 questions for you. Haha. Hopefully you get a build thread or something going one day so I don't have to stalk you online. My Anemic Alloy Wonder has shit the bed and I've been tossing around an engine swap a lot lately. I'm sick of the fragile 160hp (on a good day). A bit of balls and increased reliability are my goals.

**Tugela** · #11 12-12-2017, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p m

Let's make some distinction: it takes about 30 min to tweak the swivel preload (per side, including taking the wheels off and putting them back on).

Full swivel rebuild is a far more involved job. Count on a full day for both sides, if you take time to clean the crud off the parts.

No question the two approaches have different time commitments, although it took me less than a day to rebuild both sides and I am a slow worker. My point is that it's a question of individual priorities. Do you want a quick fix or do you want to do a thorough job? It's a question every owner has to answer for him/herself. The 30-minute "tweak" may address your handling issues in the short term, but a rebuild is a good investment in time for the long term. What you choose reflects your own situation.

**gl4x4** · #12 12-12-2017, 06:09 PM

I think what I'm going to start with is the bushings, they look a little dry rotted. So I think I may go with poly bushings.

Here are a couple links to a couple build threads.

Basically I just took and removed all the land rover engine crap, emissions and put in the 6.2, 700R4 and the NP242HD. Then had custom driveshafts built. Cleaned up the frame, deleted anything I didn't need anymore. Made the fuel fill hole bigger and called it a day. Besides the custom exhaust I built 95% of it. It took me two years, but that was because I started with a OM617 that wouldn't run. Ditched it and went 6.2

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/th...AKA-93-LWB-RRC

**gl4x4** · #13 12-12-2017, 06:29 PM

Ordered radius arm bushings.

I'll now go check out the swivel housings and see what they look like.

**P38** · #14 12-12-2017, 06:53 PM

I think it's because you have a German lic plate on a British truck. It's the Brexit effect.

**p m** · #15 12-12-2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugela

No question the two approaches have different time commitments, although it took me less than a day to rebuild both sides and I am a slow worker. My point is that it's a question of individual priorities. Do you want a quick fix or do you want to do a thorough job? It's a question every owner has to answer for him/herself. The 30-minute "tweak" may address your handling issues in the short term, but a rebuild is a good investment in time for the long term. What you choose reflects your own situation.

Nick, he doesn't even know if that's his problem!

**Tugela** · #16 12-12-2017, 07:59 PM

I never said it was. My observation (see post #4) is that if you have a 23+ year old truck with unknown service history, rebuilding the swivels is neither a bad idea nor an overly difficult project.

**gl4x4** · #17 12-12-2017, 10:47 PM

Probably. But it says PIMP so you know. It fits right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by P38

I think it's because you have a German lic plate on a British truck. It's the Brexit effect.

**Va_Disco** · #18 12-13-2017, 08:11 AM

I chased this same problem for what felt like forever. Changed panhard bushing many times, tie rod ends, radius arm bushings, and finally found a worn bearing race in the upper pin for the swivel housing. That was the end of the problem. But Damn was is frustrating to find. Good luck in fixing yours. Its no fun driving around waiting for the truck to try to kill you because you go over a random bump.

**Blueboy** · #19 12-13-2017, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Probably. But it says PIMP so you know. It fits right?

Right translation for sure, yet, curious what area of "D" as usually the region letters are there as well.

**gl4x4** · #20 12-13-2017, 08:39 PM

I had the plate made. Its a fake, used to have it on a lowered Mercedes S420

**DougG** · #21 12-14-2017, 12:15 PM

That's a cool truck. Love the soundtrack in the videos!

**Shiftonthefly1** · #22 12-14-2017, 03:23 PM

Thanks for the build link. Tons of useful info

**gl4x4** · #23 12-15-2017, 03:46 PM

Here is another one. But I think most of it is the same.

https://www.rme4x4.com/threads/proje...holder.109412/

**gl4x4** · #24 12-16-2017, 10:04 PM

Ok, so update:

I installed the new control arm bushings and took out 1 shim on each side of the top of the swivel ball. The shaking is nearly gone. I drove it for about 30 minutes and it only happened 3 times. From 25 up to 70 mph testing. So I'm going to take one more shim out on each side and I think that will fix it until I have time to rebuild the swivel balls.

Thanks for the help.

**discostew** · #25 12-17-2017, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gl4x4

Cool, The swivel balls look okay. I'll see if PT has a seal kit with new races and bearings.

It has 193K on it so far, well, that's where it was before I put the engine and crap in it. So, they may be dead. Believe it or not, but I'm the second owner. I've had it for about 2.5 years now.

If the bearings look ok once you get them cleaned out enough to inspect them, just run what you got. Like p m mentioned it sounds like a swivel preload problem, but you should look for any loose parts up there. Even the steering box.And the steering shaft.

Keep in mind when your putting it back together the preload spec. is figured with no seal dragging on the swivel ball. So I bolt the swivel housing to the axle tube with the seal and plate hanging on the swivel. Then push the seal into the housing and bolt it down with the plate after I set the preload. Make sure you have an assortment of the shims. I believe they only have like 3 thicknesses so just have one or 2 of each size. In the end you probably end up taking some out and having even more than when you started. But it would suck if you needed more and didn't have them.