Disco 5: Let the depression set in

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,043
856
AZ
cb40_15-autocar-via-aronline.jpg

I just can?t get enough of this picture of Garrett.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
A stock LR3/4 and Range Rover are absolutely useless off-road once you introduce some rain in a mildly muddy, flat fields. Introduce some "obstacles" and you have a shit show. When I facilitated the LR dealer events, the stock trucks with street tires were hard pressed to get very far. On a dry day the "aid" devices worked their magic and all that. But a slightly modified D1/D2/RRC would do far better then a bone stock late model truck in wet terrain. I don't miss doing those events. It was a lot of work to get those stock late model trucks through the course without any damage - let alone just down the trail.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zq8wA_OYwFM?rel=0&start=1407" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I think it did pretty well there.

That kind of slop will turn anything shy of a Simex or Interco into a racing slick, and to be entirely fair to the vehicle... That was a pretty rough line out of those ruts. Most people, even with an older vehicle, would have needed some help. Solid axles could have jammed that thing right up without some tall tires.

Once they gunned it, they were mostly fine. Control wasn't precise, but if smaller wheels are available, that thing would be right nasty with more sidewall.

I don't know what it is with people who use that kind of system and keep stopping. You have to keep that throttle on, and really live the "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary" mantra. The TFL guys had the same problem in the Ridgeline.

You've got to let it work out what's going on. Once it does, you'll be okay.

Honestly, I believe that vehicle will work just fine for most trail mileage, even among the off-pavement community. Half of them can't drive, a further quarter can't keep momentum, and the next eighth wouldn't know a good line if it got them into the bartender's pants.

I'm not saying I'd want one in a Zombie scenario, but for general trail use, beach trips, and the occasional bit of mud and rock hopping, I wouldn't turn my nose up. It would probably be fine on some overland trips, as well. Remember: You're not trying to get stuck out there. You're avoiding mud like that whenever possible.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
A stock LR3/4 and Range Rover are absolutely useless off-road once you introduce some rain in a mildly muddy, flat fields. Introduce some "obstacles" and you have a shit show. When I facilitated the LR dealer events, the stock trucks with street tires were hard pressed to get very far. On a dry day the "aid" devices worked their magic and all that. But a slightly modified D1/D2/RRC would do far better then a bone stock late model truck in wet terrain. I don't miss doing those events. It was a lot of work to get those stock late model trucks through the course without any damage - let alone just down the trail.

I agree with all of this. The other problem with those events is your trying to teach someone who just won't listen in most cases. It's just a family outing for most, not a chance to learn. Then there usually is a couple car loads of idiots who almost run down the spotters and help staff.
 

garrett

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2004
10,931
5
53
Middleburg, VA
www.blackdogmobility.com
I think it did pretty well there.

That kind of slop will turn anything shy of a Simex or Interco into a racing slick, and to be entirely fair to the vehicle... That was a pretty rough line out of those ruts. Most people, even with an older vehicle, would have needed some help. Solid axles could have jammed that thing right up without some tall tires.

Once they gunned it, they were mostly fine. Control wasn't precise, but if smaller wheels are available, that thing would be right nasty with more sidewall.

I don't know what it is with people who use that kind of system and keep stopping. You have to keep that throttle on, and really live the "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary" mantra. The TFL guys had the same problem in the Ridgeline.

You've got to let it work out what's going on. Once it does, you'll be okay.

Honestly, I believe that vehicle will work just fine for most trail mileage, even among the off-pavement community. Half of them can't drive, a further quarter can't keep momentum, and the next eighth wouldn't know a good line if it got them into the bartender's pants.

I'm not saying I'd want one in a Zombie scenario, but for general trail use, beach trips, and the occasional bit of mud and rock hopping, I wouldn't turn my nose up. It would probably be fine on some overland trips, as well. Remember: You're not trying to get stuck out there. You're avoiding mud like that whenever possible.

Cheers,

Kennith

99% of the people buying these won't likely have much experience off-road or any real skill. I mean those guys in the video had no idea where their wheels were pointed. Typical rookie mistake of over correcting/steering and having no "feel" for the terrain/feedback. But that's going to be the majority of the buyers. No amount of technology will overcome that - well unless Tesla makes a self drive off-road vehicle.

Tires and all that plastic crap are big limiting factors if you want to keep that vehicle in good shape.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
99% of the people buying these won't likely have much experience off-road or any real skill. I mean those guys in the video had no idea where their wheels were pointed. Typical rookie mistake of over correcting/steering and having no "feel" for the terrain/feedback. But that's going to be the majority of the buyers. No amount of technology will overcome that - well unless Tesla makes a self drive off-road vehicle.

Tires and all that plastic crap are big limiting factors if you want to keep that vehicle in good shape.

Yeah, it's easy to forget that while we'd just cut off a vulnerable area, most people won't.

The steering angles were bugging the hell out of me. It really did look like someone's first attempt at muddy ruts. I know they can be confusing, but if you can't feel it, you should be tracking those rotations, and not bringing it so close to lock.

If you pull so far that a full rotation is required to correct, you'd better know what you're doing. I was half expecting something to break in there.

If you still can't get it right, just tape the top of the wheel. It won't help you all the way to lock, but it's a halfway decent way to get used to things for many people. I think the first thing I'd tell those guys is to leave their hands on the steering wheel for a while. They're clearly not able to correct that far.

Limit yourself that way, and you'll learn a lot very quickly. It's one thing I've made people do in the past when I had to teach them how to drive off-pavement, but then again, I'm not a professional educator like you. There are probably much better ways.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
I think it did pretty well there.

Did we watch the same video? Sure, part of it can be attributed to lack of skill, but nothing was going to stop that thing from getting buried up to its body in mud, ripping off plastic bits, and uselessly spinning those mall tires.

There's a big difference between axle/diff ground clearance and body ground clearance and it makes all the difference in these situations. With new rovers, when you run out of ground clearance, you're immediately dragging the entire belly and body and causing damage. With old rovers you first drag the axle tubes, then frame, then body. I'd much rather be up to my axles in mud, than the body.

It could be great in the mud if the body sat higher, allowing more clearance and tire, and combined with the modern (high axle/diff clearance) IFS/IRS, traction aids, air suspension.

Of course then you'd raise the COG which JLR is trying to lower for safetly and so soccer moms and automotive reviewers don't complain about body roll. To have both, they'd have to engineer in larger wheel wells to accommodate real rubber, especially if they insist on those stupid 20" wheels.
 
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BDM

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
333
30
OR
The D5 started growing a bit on me after reading that coil springs are fitted for the base models. Most will probably go for air but still good to see that LR acknowledges all the issues with air that came with the LR3/4.

Also, reviewers are showing 28 city/ 30-33mpg highway with the diesel, much higher than the EPA estimated 24 or 26. That’s damn good for such a heavy ass vehicle.
 

JackW

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2005
675
69
The latest full tank l ran through mine delivered 31.5 mpg running 65 mph up I-81 through Pennsylvania. I'm getting 25 mpg just driving around on the countryside in upstate New York, running pretty slowly because of the mulitudes of deer that are wandering around up here. A day hasn't gone by when we haven't seen a dozen deer on the side of or in the road.

600+ miles on a full tank is attainable.
 

BDM

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
333
30
OR
The latest full tank l ran through mine delivered 31.5 mpg running 65 mph up I-81 through Pennsylvania. I'm getting 25 mpg just driving around on the countryside in upstate New York, running pretty slowly because of the mulitudes of deer that are wandering around up here. A day hasn't gone by when we haven't seen a dozen deer on the side of or in the road.

600+ miles on a full tank is attainable.

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

Overall, how has the experience been?
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
The D5 started growing a bit on me after reading that coil springs are fitted for the base models. Most will probably go for air but still good to see that LR acknowledges all the issues with air that came with the LR3/4.

Also, reviewers are showing 28 city/ 30-33mpg highway with the diesel, much higher than the EPA estimated 24 or 26. That?s damn good for such a heavy ass vehicle.

LR isn't acknowledging air suspension reliability. Coils are cheaper.

Not only are coils cheaper, they're a joke on this vehicle. The only reason LR was able to get away with independent suspension on an "off-road" vehicle was the height adjustment and solid axle simulation provided by cross-linked air struts.

Who care's if you're getting 30mpg? If you're buying efficiency you get a Prius. If you're buying utility, towing, cargo, or off-road capability in 2018, you're stuck with a pickup. Now, if you can get 30mpg AND utility, towing, cargo, or off-road capability, then great, but let's get our priorities straight.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
Following LR's lead, Chevy has released the new Blazer, lesbian edition.

<img src="https://s13252.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Screen-Shot-2017-12-26-at-11.09.14-AM-940x626.png" width=800>
<img src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.gearjunkie.com/uploads/2018/06/ChevyBlazerReveal10.jpg" width=800>
 

Howski

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2009
1,483
209
Alabama
Not only are coils cheaper, they're a joke on this vehicle. The only reason LR was able to get away with independent suspension on an "off-road" vehicle was the height adjustment and solid axle simulation provided by cross-linked air struts.

Ive never understood the idea of going to coil springs on a independently sprung vehicle over airbags. As I understand it the terrain response on the LR3/4 (and presumably D5) inflates/deflates airbags to ?simulate? a solid axle and keep all tires on the ground. I assume you would lose seemingly good feature with coils but maybe I?m off base here.

While the new Blazer is a disgrace they’ve really all sucked since they went away from the original
 

BDM

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
333
30
OR
Who care's if you're getting 30mpg? If you're buying efficiency you get a Prius. If you're buying utility, towing, cargo, or off-road capability in 2018, you're stuck with a pickup. Now, if you can get 30mpg AND utility, towing, cargo, or off-road capability, then great, but let's get our priorities straight.

Isn?t that kind of sort of what the D5 is? Albeit wrapped in a little more luxury and plastic paneling. 442lbs of tq, plus 600 miles to the tank, room for 7 and nearly 8k towing rating ain?t too shabby. I bet if someone made aftermarket bumpers for these things it would be pretty legit off-road.

The styling isn?t my favorite but I do recall how many people hated the D1 when it came out, calling it a moms SUV etc which LR later answered with their Camel Trophy challenges.
 

BDM

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
333
30
OR
Following LR's lead, Chevy has released the new Blazer, lesbian edition.

<img src="https://s13252.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Screen-Shot-2017-12-26-at-11.09.14-AM-940x626.png" width=800>
<img src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.gearjunkie.com/uploads/2018/06/ChevyBlazerReveal10.jpg" width=800>

Jesus. That?s a fucking abomination
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
Isn?t that kind of sort of what the D5 is? Albeit wrapped in a little more luxury and plastic paneling. 442lbs of tq, plus 600 miles to the tank, room for 7 and nearly 8k towing rating ain?t too shabby. I bet if someone made aftermarket bumpers for these things it would be pretty legit off-road.

The styling isn?t my favorite but I do recall how many people hated the D1 when it came out, calling it a moms SUV etc which LR later answered with their Camel Trophy challenges.

No. The 20" wheels and low body cladding write off any real off-road for any distance. The tailgate is a joke, not utilitarian. Less cargo than an LR4. Towing is ok, for an "SUV". Looks like a tampon.

A pickup can use real rubber. Real tailgate. Tons of cargo space. Tow anything. Recent pickups are even comfortable.

There's also the last few real SUVs like the 4Runner, Land Cruisers, and Lexus variants. Ugly though.

If you want better options, you're going to have to hope Ford and LR don't screw up the new Bronco and Defender.


The D1 is a soccer mom SUV body, on a Defender/RRC-esque frame, suspension, and drivetrain. The Defender/Series are/were the true timeless core products.
 
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