6-Wheel Drive Discovery II - Am I totally mad ?

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Yeah, there is still a long way to go. I have completed all the wiring this last weekend, but I still need to tackle the plumbing - it's going to need a custom rad because the inlet and outlet unions are on the wrong side with a disco rad, but it at least gives me the opportunity to spec a better cooling rad in the process ! I'm going to fit a RRS exhaust to it temporarily next weekend just to check she fires up ok. But it will still be a couple of months (I only get the weekends to work on it) before she'll hit the road I think
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Well, good news and bad news. I got the engine to fire up yesterday :applause:

No cooling system (ok for a very brief test run) and no exhaust (VERRRY loud !)

But the good news is that the engine and the engine management both seem to be running just fine

The bad news is that under heavy load, the A/C pump on the left impacts with the metal bracket for the engine mount (could probably cut some metal off that without impacting its performance too much)

The worse news is that under similar loads, the alternator on the right impacts with the steering box :banghead:, and I don't think I can cut any of that away !

I think I'm going to need a few days to think about this one, but it's been a mixed emotional weekend
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
The problem is that although the engine initially slotted in quite nicely, the ancillaries are all a lot lower down on the AJ133 in comparison to the THOR which has the alternator and A/C in the V as you can see on these comparison pics

Thor V8
Thor_VGA.jpg


AJ133S
AJ133S_VGA.jpg


So what to do ? I could start with the arduous task of re-locating the alternator and A/C pump

Someone suggested using stiffer engine mounts to limit the movement of the engine, but that's also going to transfer a lot more vibration into the chassis, which won't be pleasant to drive

Anyone else face similar issues ?
 
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squirt

Well-known member
Nov 13, 2008
824
13
Los Angeles
A picture of the area of concern for the steering box would help. In my experience with several engine swaps, you've always got options. I've found that there's some flexibility in the drivetrain mounting on may vehicles, capable of locating the whole engine/trans setup an inch or two forward/back. I understand you've created custom mounts for the engine, but it may be desirable to raise or lower it a bit.

The alternator looks fairly well tucked into the outside of the V, but it may be possible to machine its mounts and push it in to get another 1/2" of clearance or so. Depends upon how much room you need. You may also consider a smaller size alternator (either aftermarket or from another vehicle) with custom mounting brackets. I've taken this approach with a p/s pump in the past.

Another option is relocating the steering box, or sourcing an alternate steering box with a different size/shape.

I just realized that this engine has 2 separate serpentine belts. It may also be possible to slide the alternator into the plane of the other belt with a custom mount and modify the belt routing accordingly.

Just some ideas... Hard to give much else without seeing specific shots of the problem.
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Use Saginaw steering box mounted outside of the framerail. Here's a photo of somebody posted on NAS-ROW.com

That looks like a solution that might really work ! I don't know what a Saginaw steering box is to be honest, but I'm definitely going to check it out - I wonder if they're available in right hand drive !
 

Greg Davis

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
658
0
60
Charlotte, NC
For the A/C compressor, you could probably source an aftermarket unit designed for the street rod market. They are typically smaller in size with comparable output. There's not much room under the hoods of 30's & 40's era autos so the aftermarket has catered by making the engine accessories smaller to fit in these locations. Just food for thought.

Greg
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Well I've had a good look at the space around the steering box, and I believe I can mount a regular Land Rover left hand drive steering box in its place, but on the outside of the chassis rail, like pm suggested. mounting it on the outside of the chassis will require some collateral rework

  1. I am going to have to relocate the chassis mount for the front axle panhard rod and customise the panhard rod length accordingly
  2. Although the intention is to use a LHD steering box, I will need to use the drop arm from a RHD one (which I already have of course) and customise the drag link length accordingly
  3. It looks like clearance of the ACE roll bar is going to be very tight, so I may need to tweak that too

The good news however, is that my initial concerns about the intermediate steering shaft clashing with the shock absorber turret appear unfounded, there appears to be plenty of clearance for that.

So I've ordered an LHD steering box, then it's out with the angle grinder again !
 

RavenMocker

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2015
45
4
PNW
Can we see more photo's? Id love to see how its coming along as Im certain others would as well. :bigok:

What OEM features are you going to need to give up for this conversion? AWD? TC? etc....
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Can we see more photo's? Id love to see how its coming along as Im certain others would as well. :bigok:

What OEM features are you going to need to give up for this conversion? AWD? TC? etc....

Hi, yes I'm posting more and more pics as work progresses, unless there's something specific you want to see

None of the OEM features have been lost, quite the contrary in fact, with a lot of features from the more modern vehicles incorporated back into this.

AWD is available and in fact it has selectable 2WD, 4WD or 6WD, TC, HDC, ACE, ABS etc all available and enhanced from original and operating on all 6 wheels as well as additional convenience features such as auto lights, auto wiper, collision detection, lane departure warning, headway monitoring, intelligent high beam, speed limit indication etc - This vehicle is intended as a showcase for all the various ECUs so it has all the bells and whistles

The exterior is taking shape nicely now, the colour scheme is fixed and clean with only black and chrome. The black as I mentioned before is Santorini black as available on lastest Range Rovers etc, which is a gorgeous colour and is contrasted nicely by the various chrome finishes - The roof bars are chrome and the door handles are custom manufactured chrome also, quite different from the original D2, but it's the small touches that make all the difference.

The interior still needs a lot of work - I've finally got an upholsterer I trust, so work is beginning to happen, The interior is parchment leather and walnut - real walnut, not wood effect plastic. The door pulls (originally textured plastic) have been replaced with solid, turned walnut. The front seats are from an L322 Range Rover Westminster and have heating and cooling as well as 18-way electric adjustment with memory and even built-in massage. The rear seats are original D2, but have had heating elements added and media controls in the centre armrest. The seats in the very back are largely conventional, except there are 4 rather than the usual 2 making this a 9 seater. Headlining (extended), door cards and interior trim panels still need doing.

If you want any pics of any of this, let me know and I'll happily post them

Thanks
 

Mongo

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
5,731
2
59
How about posting pic's and info on the drivetrain? I'm really curious to how your going to drive the rear axles
 
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dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
How about posting pic's and info on the drivetrain? I'm really curious to how your going to drive the rear axles

Lol, well that's the hardest bit to photo, but I'll have a go this weekend if the weather is up to it !

As for info, you can think of the front two axles and the rear axle as two separate systems;

The front two axles are fairly conventional in that they are driven though a ZF 8HP90 8-speed automatic transmission coupled to an NV225 transfer box which has electronic Hi/Lo range selection and "Torsen" limited slip diff driving to the front and 2nd axles via KAM locking differentials.

The rear axle has a YASA 3-phase AC motor with a 2:1 reduction gear and electronic dog clutch, also driving through a KAM locking differential.

In electric mode, the vehicle is 2WD with only the rear axle driven, the NV225 is in neutral and typically the petrol engine is off, though it can be spun up and synchronised (in terms of speed) before engaging gear in the transfer box if the batteries are getting low or we are approaching the maximum drive speed for the electric motor (c. 47mph)

Once the petrol engine takes over, we are in 4WD, the electric motor is typically disengaged (by means of the dog clutch), although it can be left connected while the motor controller goes into regen mode, allowing the batteries to be recharged from the motion of the vehicle. Regen can continue to operate up to about 85mph after which the motor must be disconnected to prevent destructive rotational speeds

6WD has two modes of operation - conventional (so to speak), the electric motor is synchronised to maintain the same speed as the petrol drive train for use in low traction conditions (snow, mud etc). In sports mode, the electric motor is there to "fill in" the gaps in the petrol torque curve. To this end, in WOT (wide-open throttle), it does not try to synchronise to the engine speed, but rather puts down as much torque as it can without breaking traction, allowing the petrol drivetrain to catch up, this gives maximum acceleration.

Horsepower Curves
Horsepower_Curves.png


Torque Curves
Torque_Curves.png


Hope that gives you some idea of what's going on, as I said, I'll get underneath and try to get some decent pics if the weather stays dry (this is Britain after all ! ;) )
 

Mongo

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
5,731
2
59
those axle look pretty close to each other and the diffs are in-line with each other so I'm curious as to how your going to do the drive on the 2nd axle.
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Yes exactly, there is 41" between the rear axles, so I needed a compact solution, every mechanical solution I could find came with its own list of problems, but the electric rear axle solved all of those in one go. The YASA motor was chosen because it is very compact and very powerful, and there is still room between the axles for the reservoir tank for the air suspension ! :)
 

Dangeruss

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2007
104
1
Ontario, Canada
When I first started reading this I thought you were off your twig, but the level of thought and execution demonstrated so far is brilliant. I think this is one of the most interesting, and certainly most unique projects I have ever seen an individual take on. Kudos to you for taking the challenge, keep the updates coming.
 

dave658

Active member
May 26, 2013
39
1
Hampshire
Well the weekend was soaking (no surprise there), so I've not managed to take any photos yet or make any progress, but I have received the chrome door handles and they look gorgeous. The process is quite extensive - copper plating, then nickel plating and finally chrome, but the result is gorgeous, and much nicer than painted or wrapped in my opinion, what do we think ?

IMG_1102_small.jpg


IMG_1103_small.jpg