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  #8326  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:26 AM
brian4d brian4d is offline
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I know we've talked about this before but what's the use of a gun purchase debate when millions of guns are already on the street illegally? Someone here put it best, you can't un-ring that bell. I don't have a problem with Icelandic type background checks. What I do have a problem with are folks that think it's the magic wand fix. The whole situation is extremely frustrating and makes it worse every time you flip on the news and see another school shooting. However, cooler heads prevail. I turn off the TV and remind myself of the actual statistics and probability of that happening to a family member or close friend of my own.
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  #8327  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:21 AM
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Yes, it was a paradigm shift. Haphazardly seems to be an opinion of yours Ray. Were you there? On Trumps national security team? no and no, next.

All hard work begins with a single step, calm down.

It is opinion shared by more than just me.
Does me being there, or not, have bearing? I wasn't at the moon landing-but that shit happened too (so what).


I do appreciate the closing response you leave here though, it is the classic illustration of a non sequitur that you (and your idol) use frequently. It is so clich? as to be meaningless but gives the appearance of wisdom.


You might as well just say things like "as it was foretold in the prophesies"
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  #8328  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:32 AM
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It is opinion shared by more than just me.
Does me being there, or not, have bearing? I wasn't at the moon landing-but that shit happened too (so what).
Do you know how that moon rock was picked up? How it was packaged in order to avoid contamination? How the astronauts arrived at hat location and why they picked that rock? How about the landing spot. How was that verified and tested Why there? Why not land over there instead? Better Observation from that point? You don't know Ray. You just don't. Period.

Again, substance, severe lack of. Things happen behind closed doors we'll never be privy to.

For an educated man you're not convincing me Ray.

There are very bright minds that disagree with you Ray.

Lieberman: Trump's North Korea Summit Was A "Success"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...a_success.html

Trump's unlikely allies on North Korea talks — progressive Democrats

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...212960759.html

Ex-Obama ambassador to Singapore: Trump-Kim summit is a 'very good thing' and a 'unique moment'

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/11/ex-o...ood-thing.html
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  #8329  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:39 AM
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Do you know how that moon rock was picked up? How it was packaged in order to avoid contamination? How the astronauts arrived at hat location and why they picked that rock? How about the landing spot. How was that verified and tested Why there? Why not land over there instead? Better Observation from that point? You don't know Ray. You just don't. Period.

Again, substance, severe lack of. Things happen behind closed doors we'll never be privy to.

For an educated man you're not convincing me Ray.

There are very bright minds that disagree with you Ray.

Lieberman: Trump's North Korea Summit Was A "Success"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...a_success.html

Trump's unlikely allies on North Korea talks ? progressive Democrats

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...212960759.html

Ex-Obama ambassador to Singapore: Trump-Kim summit is a 'very good thing' and a 'unique moment'

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/11/ex-o...ood-thing.html

Do you want counterarguments, you've posted those articles before and they are illustrative that depending on your stance.


Things happening behind closed doors shouldn't imbue confidence in anyone in a democratic republic. You gripe about that ceaselessly when it suits you, now you pin your hopes on it and a non-substantive agreement to meet more.


You aren't convinced? You were never capable of believing anything but success.
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  #8330  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:02 AM
brian4d brian4d is offline
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You aren't convinced? You were never capable of believing anything but success.
As you were wired for complete failure. Got all day Ray.
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  #8331  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:16 AM
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As you were wired for complete failure. Got all day Ray.
I wasn't wired for failure. You'll note when we discussed this long ago I provided you the basic underpinnings of what the DPRK was going to ask for.


What did they ask for? (those things)
What did we get? (words)
What has transpired? (a photo op)


Here's the funny thing, when we discussed what would be the best course course of action-agnostic to partisan bullshit-the reality is the DPRK is nuclear now and we probably need to contend with that. What's interesting is we still think they'll denuclearize.


Want to take bets?


Since you have all day, do some reading:
https://www.wired.com/story/north-ko...arize-history/


Tell me again how this is so different when the words are the same, its just the people are different and one of them isn't even serious?
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  #8332  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:22 AM
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Tell me again how this is so different when the words are the same, its just the people are different and one of them isn't even serious?
The biggest thing right? The leaders, have changed. To think Trump isn't serious about De-Nuking is just crazy Ray. You don't think Trump wants a safe world for his son to grow up in?
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  #8333  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:24 AM
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  #8334  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:26 AM
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That's your counterpoint?
I return back to the evidence at hand. History is our guide (with multiple other leaders who all were serious about it too). What's different here is less substance.


What POTUS wants for his son to grow up in isn't relevant, as I'm certain every proceeding leader had the same motivations too-don't you think, or do you believe that they all wanted their children to grow up in an 'unsafe world'?


Absurd logic.
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  #8335  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:30 AM
brian4d brian4d is offline
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That's your counterpoint?
I return back to the evidence at hand. History is our guide (with multiple other leaders who all were serious about it too). What's different here is less substance.


What POTUS wants for his son to grow up in isn't relevant, as I'm certain every proceeding leader had the same motivations too-don't you think, or do you believe that they all wanted their children to grow up in an 'unsafe world'?


Absurd logic.
Ray, get real. You wanted Trump to rock in that summit with a 250 page document to sign their fist meeting? I mean, wtf did you expect? Seriously. He's building off a recently ended 50 year war with a new leader half his age. You really want to put the statement "absurd logic" in your response?
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  #8336  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:01 AM
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Ray, get real. You wanted Trump to rock in that summit with a 250 page document to sign their fist meeting? I mean, wtf did you expect? Seriously. He's building off a recently ended 50 year war with a new leader half his age. You really want to put the statement "absurd logic" in your response?
Uhhh....Yeah. A detailed document describing when, how denuclearization (along with verification) will take place is what we wanted. Even you said so. The Iran deal was so bad, why? That was infinitely more defined, and effective (Iran doesn't have nukes, NK does) than what this produced.

Before you tell me this was just the first meeting, maybe the US should have negotiated first before rewarding NK/Un with the imprimatur of legitimacy by meeting with the US President. Hell, NK is already propagandizing the meeting as a great win. (BTW - where's the outrage that Trump saluted a NK general? Just imagine how apoplectic Rush/Hannity/Fox would have been if this was Obama.)

And, "a recently ended 50 year war"?? What war? Did we officially end hostilities with NK at the summit? Is that part of the assertion by Trump that NK is no longer a nuclear threat?

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  #8337  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:14 AM
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Before you tell me this was just the first meeting, maybe the US should have negotiated first before rewarding NK/Un with the imprimatur of legitimacy by meeting with the US President.
Goooooooood grief. Anything to bitch about and everything. Like dan said, nothing will ever be good enough until we have a Democratic president.

Tell me how you know what was negotiated Scott? You on the national security team 2?
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  #8338  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:23 AM
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Where do we have mandatory drug testing?
Are you fucking kidding me??? Do a little research before you make an ass of yourself little man.


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What would be a higher level? To purchase a new gun we already have to fill out paperwork detailing the color of our great-grandparents eye color. There is a 5 day waiting period. Age restrictions. And many state laws go beyond that. So what level of scrutiny are you talking about?
Bullshit and you know it. If you bothered to look at the requirements for a country like Iceland, you might get an idea of what I'm talking about but that would be too much work for your lazy ass. You're the king of the quick quip regardless of how incorrect it might be.

Oh, and what's your answer to the ease with which a person can purchase a gun from an individual or at a gun show? So much for background checks or any kind of control whatsoever.


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That just goes to show you it's not the guns that are the problem. It's the people. The mindset of 'everyone gets a trophy' has warped this country.
Yeah, you've completely convinced me.
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  #8339  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:49 AM
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Goooooooood grief. Anything to bitch about and everything. Like dan said, nothing will ever be good enough until we have a Democratic president.

Tell me how you know what was negotiated Scott? You on the national security team 2?
Here's what was signed. THAT is what was negotiated. I didn't have to "be in the room." The text was published. Not some fantasy that NK has given up their nukes.

Anything that was discussed/promised and not in the text is bullshit.

Hell, here's the text:

Quote:
President Donald J Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People?s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held first historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive in-depth and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new US-DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new US-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity
The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula

Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula

The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the US-DPRK summit ? the first in history ? was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulation in this joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the US-DPRK summit.

President Donald J Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People?s Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new US-DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.
Where is a timeline? Where is the verification? Where is how they are going to ship out their nukes to the US (or somewhere else).

Get real.
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  #8340  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:00 PM
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Y'all keep saying someone is going to jail......I keep waiting.
Add one more in stir. Oh, and Trump is tossing Manafort under the bus...

Manafort ordered to jail after witness-tampering charges

Shortly before Manafort was due in court Friday, Trump spoke to reporters at an impromptu appearance and said “Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time.”
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Dangerous time when our country is led by those who will lie about anything, backed by those who will believe anything, based on information from media sources that will say anything. Americans must break out of that bubble and seek truth.
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  #8341  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:05 PM
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Here's what was signed. THAT is what was negotiated. I didn't have to "be in the room." The text was published. Not some fantasy that NK has given up their nukes.

Anything that was discussed/promised and not in the text is bullshit.

Hell, here's the text:



Where is a timeline? Where is the verification? Where is how they are going to ship out their nukes to the US (or somewhere else).

Get real.
Dang, you want to doughnut before the fryer is even turned on. I say that document as a good starting point to talks ongoing. You, yourself posted the article about Moon's timeline. Don't shit a shitter Scott.
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  #8342  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:13 PM
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Dang, you want to doughnut before the fryer is even turned on. I say that document as a good starting point to talks ongoing. You, yourself posted the article about Moon's timeline. Don't shit a shitter Scott.
Oh, you mean the April statement? The one that says this about denuking?

4) South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearisation, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.

Can you point out a timeline? Inspections? You know - those things that you said were required for success? Those things that were in the Iran agreement that you despise so much?
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  #8343  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:30 PM
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Oh, you mean the April statement? The one that says this about denuking?

4) South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearisation, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.

Can you point out a timeline? Inspections? You know - those things that you said were required for success? Those things that were in the Iran agreement that you despise so much?
My statement stands. You're not comprehending my point.
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  #8344  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:36 PM
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Are you fucking kidding me??? Do a little research before you make an ass of yourself little man.
I've only been drug tested once in my life. It was for a job. If I did not want the job it would not have been mandatory to take a drug test. So how are drug tests mandatory? Come on dumb ass, speak up.




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Bullshit and you know it. If you bothered to look at the requirements for a country like Iceland, you might get an idea of what I'm talking about but that would be too much work for your lazy ass. You're the king of the quick quip regardless of how incorrect it might be.
I know it's bullshit? Come on dumb ass, be real.

What if Iceland was like Chicago? Chicago has stricter gun laws than Iceland, so why if Chicago a shit hole? By your dumb ass logic Chicago should be a monastery. But guess what, it's not. Know why? Because you're a dumb ass.

It's laughable to even think a gun license requirement is going to stop criminals from purchasing guns. It's fucking loony. Not to mention the gun death rates are low in the USA. More people die from drowning than with guns, should we require a swimming license or training before we can swim? More people die from
sharp objects" than gun deaths, should we require license and training for handling sharp objects? More people die at the hands of law enforcement than gun related deaths, should we require a license and training for law enforcement? Oh, wait..... That's right, Paul, you're a dumb ass.

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Oh, and what's your answer to the ease with which a person can purchase a gun from an individual or at a gun show? So much for background checks or any kind of control whatsoever.
It's illegal for me, as an individual, to knowingly sell a firearm to a felon. There are safeguards in place for people like me to take advantage of if I'm selling a gun to some loose cannon like you, Paul. If I know you're a felon and I sell you a gun, I go to jail. Simple. If I do not know you're a felon and I sell you a gun, there's still a chance I go to jail. So for someone like me your point is moot. As for kids in Chicago selling guns, they just think you're a dumb ass.

You obviously do not understand the "gun show loop-hole". Understandable when you get your news from CNN. It's okay, dumb ass, people like you are easily misguided from all those books you read and a lack of real-world logic. But to answer your question, a significant majority of the people selling guns at a gun show are gun dealers. Gun dealers have a Federal Firearms License. Any FFL selling guns MUST complete background checks before a gun is delivered to a buyer.

But if you want a gun head to Chicago. I bet there's a background check process that would rival the Iceland requirements.
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  #8345  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:39 PM
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Add one more in stir. Oh, and Trump is tossing Manafort under the bus...

Manafort ordered to jail after witness-tampering charges

Shortly before Manafort was due in court Friday, Trump spoke to reporters at an impromptu appearance and said ?Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time.?
Jesus you're desperate. Naturally what Manafort did 12 years ago has everything to do with Trump.

Yawn.
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  #8346  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:10 PM
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This doesn't mesh, can't be!

GOP wants Trump in 2020, more popular than Obama, JFK, Reagan

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...ama-jfk-reagan
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