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Old 05-07-2018, 11:37 AM
nedarb2 nedarb2 is offline
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Hi everyone
Im new to the forum here. Ive wanted a LR for a long time, and after looking at a few locally i pulled the trigger on a really nice 2003 D2. the vehicle is is very good condition, and more importantly it just (5000km ago) had a head gasket job done &the heads were machined at the time (by a reputable local LR specialist shop). **i do not know if the engine overheated, or how badly, to prompt a new head gasket. i can only assume, at this time, that as it was done at a reputable LR shop they did their due diligence in checking the block during the job for slipped liner or cracks. I also have new pads & rotors in rear brakes, and just did a 3001 filter-10/40 rotella oil change.

This car is an around town, back road cruising/hunting vehicle for me.. "play car".

im mechanically inclined, ive done alot of vehicle work in the past but no engine tear downs. I like to tinker & play with vehicles, and like to make things work right.
Ive had the car for 3 weeks, and here is what ive noticed that i need help solving. I have done a lot of research into these issues already but am sort of stumped now/looking for guidance to try and cut-down on blindly replacing parts and spending unnecessary $..

1) 3 amigos!. Comes on when starting the car with my foot on the brake SOMETIMES. Has also come on during traction control when going up steep back-country hills. has also come on after braking (and my brakes squeak). What ive done: ordered new akebono brake pads. ordered abs amigo code reader. Will clean/bleed brakes when the pads arrive, and obviously read the stored coded when the reader arrives. if its not the brakes/dirty sensors then i already assume i need to do the shuttle valve fix/mod?? it goes away by turning off & re-starting the car

2) p0441 pending code. i replaced the purge valve, code is still showing up. Next step.. gas-tank cap????

3) i installed an ultra gauge, and noticed right away im running too hot. driving around, im 212-217f. max 221. min temp (coasting down long hills) i cool to about 204-206.
-i did a coolant flush and change yesterday. added purple ice. no change in temperatures after driving around 1 day.
-ordered a new coolant reservoir cap today
-ordered a new 180f thermostat
-if that doesn't do it, ill be looking at a new radiator???? help
-temp gauge in the car holds dead center at all those temps.

4) a famous LR tick. Im afraid its a sleeve. starts around 205f. most noticeable at idle.
it would make sense to have cooling issues with a slipping sleeve?
-have not pulled plugs yet to check if steam cleaned
-ticks when warm only
-if i can get my operating temps below 200f at all times, i think the tick will go away
-tick sounds louder under the engine
-could it be a flex plate? is it possible it only ticks when warm? sounds exactly like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBSbgYghhx0 but i guess a liner does too.
-if it is a liner... ill attempt to pin them?
-its not a lifter tick, ive faced those before and doesn't tick when cold.


i have also ordered a new front drive shaft from lucky 8.

Thanks for the help everyone. Loving the car so far, just a few challenges to work through.
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2018, 12:00 PM
Howski Howski is offline
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2) Try the new gas cap, should help but may show up again every once in awhile.
3) 180 t stat should get the temps in the low to mid 190’s if not a bit cooler.
4) learn to live with the tick. I’ve got a sporadic one I can’t seem to kick. Some days it’s there, some it’s not. Highway trips usually seem to help alleviate it. My temps range from the upper 180’s to low 190’s.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:02 PM
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K-rover K-rover is online now
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1- could be a bad hub or sensor.. The reader will tell you

2- Filler cap is probably the issue

3- Believe it or not that is "normal" for these trucks with a standard Tstat. The 180 (grey in color) is the best solution, Also check the ffan clutch while you are there.

4- Mine has been ticking for the last 12yrs! lol.. Mostly under the truck.. I think its the flex plate, but I havent checked. Its not using coolant or oil So Im playing dumb until something goes boom!

Sounds like you are on the right path to figuring out all your issues.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:29 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is offline
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I get P0441 pending, intermittently, as well, and it's driving me nuts. Replaced purge valve, gas cap, cleaned filler neck threads, inspected all the lines... ugh. Sometimes if I idle long enough on a 1/2 or less tank, it will turn into a fault.

For #3 you'll probably find that a 180F tstat (black britpart, or genuine grey) will solve your temp problem.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:11 PM
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x2 on the fan clutch.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:29 PM
p m p m is offline
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Here's my observation (with a D1, but I think it is generic):
a 180F thermostat will make your average running temperatures lower, but it will not lower your max temperatures. It is better for longevity of cooling system components (including radiator, hoses, and heater matrix) because of average lower pressure, but it is not that great for the engine.
I knew that before I made a decision to use lower-temperature thermostat - trading a bit of engine life for slightly higher short-term reliability.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:48 PM
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Also consider a new radiator. Assuming the factory unit is still in place it's now 15+ years old and probably not as functional as it once was. A new radiator can be purchased for a reasonable price or, even better, you can have your existing radiator re-cored at slightly greater expense. Last year I replaced the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and fan clutch all at the same time. Ascending 2,000-foot climbs at 7,000 feet elevation in low range in 100-degree ambient temperatures with a heavily laden vehicle my ScanGuage never climbed above 200F. This was in a D1, but a refreshed cooling system in a D2 should perform much better than what you are currently seeing.
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  #8  
Old 05-07-2018, 03:37 PM
ezzzzzzz ezzzzzzz is online now
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Check the fan clutch (only really effective at lower speeds anyhow). Replace the radiator. Aftermarket units are inexpensive and reliable despite the claims that the plastic/aluminum models are inferior (tell that to every car manufacturer worldwide).
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:26 PM
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You sound like a smart guy, change out the radiator for peace of mind.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:40 PM
nedarb2 nedarb2 is offline
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thanks for the help everyone. ill keep you updated as i progress through these issues.
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  #11  
Old 05-08-2018, 06:40 PM
nedarb2 nedarb2 is offline
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Alright.. update.

abs amigo reader arrived. shuttle valve is the culprit. will be doing the "b" mod to it in the next couple weeks once some other things are done.

-new rad arrived today
-viscous fan clutch seemed strong via. the rolled-up paper test. will not replace at this time.
-new akebono rear brakes arrived, will put in and bleed system with the shuttle valve mod.
-new coolant tank lid put on yesterday
-returned motorad low temp thermostat, ordered genuine low temp and fuel tank cap from lucky 8 with express shipping.
-new front drive shaft should arrive thursday.

looks like ill have a busy saturday! also, heres some pics of last weekend.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0652.jpg (207.1 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0654.jpg (209.7 KB, 48 views)
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:04 PM
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Good lookin truck. Same color as my '04.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:22 AM
nedarb2 nedarb2 is offline
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I went to pull the rad out today, took the top shroud off and bam! New(er) rad already in there from 2016. That just made my night, got my 320$ back for the new rad I ordered and didn’t have that job to do. So I started drinking beer and got my vhf radio installed into the overhead console.

My New drive shaft will go in tomorrow.

Also, I noticed in a drive through tonight my engine tick is going when in park waiting. I put it into drive and the ticking stops or is significantly reduced. Is this a slipped liner symptom, or another clue pointing to a cracked flex plate? In park i was idling at 830rpm. In drive, idling with the brake on I was at 650rpm.
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:22 AM
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JUKE179r JUKE179r is offline
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Here is some extra parts for your #3 temperature issue, these are the parts I used in addition to the 180 degree thermostat:
- Hayden Automotive #2781 Premium Fan Clutch
- Dorman #620-112 Radiator Fan

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Last edited by JUKE179r; 05-19-2018 at 01:39 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:10 AM
MNinWI MNinWI is offline
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A quick note: You stated that:
-temp gauge in the car holds dead center at all those temps.

The gauge on the dash does not read the temperature, the gauge essentially has three positions on it, cold, warm, and too hot. The dash gauge does not reflect actual temperature rise and fall. Rely on your Ultragauge for temp, not the gauge on the dash.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNinWI View Post
A quick note: You stated that:
-temp gauge in the car holds dead center at all those temps.

The gauge on the dash does not read the temperature, the gauge essentially has three positions on it, cold, warm, and too fucking late. The dash gauge does not reflect actual temperature rise and fall. Rely on your Ultragauge for temp, not the gauge on the dash.
I fixed this for you.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p m View Post
Here's my observation (with a D1, but I think it is generic):
a 180F thermostat will make your average running temperatures lower, but it will not lower your max temperatures. It is better for longevity of cooling system components (including radiator, hoses, and heater matrix) because of average lower pressure, but it is not that great for the engine.
I knew that before I made a decision to use lower-temperature thermostat - trading a bit of engine life for slightly higher short-term reliability.
I?m curious how running at an average lower temperature negatively effects engine life. Is it the wider temperature swings (average vs max) created by the 180F thermostat that is bad for the engine? If so, why?

Not challenging your statement, pm, just trying to learn.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent View Post
I?m curious how running at an average lower temperature negatively effects engine life. Is it the wider temperature swings (average vs max) created by the 180F thermostat that is bad for the engine? If so, why?

Not challenging your statement, pm, just trying to learn.
it depends on how much lower it is. The ideal temp will heat the oil to get rid of condensation. The ideal range will cause the whole engine to expand and have less friction as well as allowing seals to work better. It also can play a part in how well the fuel vaporizes... there are a ton of things to consider on operating temperature beyond the cooler the better...
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent View Post
I?m curious how running at an average lower temperature negatively effects engine life. Is it the wider temperature swings (average vs max) created by the 180F thermostat that is bad for the engine? If so, why?

Not challenging your statement, pm, just trying to learn.
higher temp burns off condensation, also allows for better fuel economy at higher temps. LR made this engine run hot to help the engine efficiency despite the negative impact of it running at 210+ and being on the brink of catastrophic failure.

There are other systems that dont recognize operation until certain temps, those temps are at the higher end of what most of us like to see. Your aux fan for instance is one of those that needs very specific temps to engage and help with cooling. Running 180 and never getting above 200 isnt how the ECU was programmed.

I have a 180 and wouldnt change it but I know it has other impacts on the engine. Check the inside of your oil cap when you run lower temps, youll get sludge especially if you run 180 and in a colder climate.
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Old 05-14-2018, 01:34 AM
nedarb2 nedarb2 is offline
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interesting day today in the back country.
1) i found that when cruising at 20mph or less:
low gear range - 2000rpm - 203-206F engine temp
high hear range - 1000-1500 rpm - 215-217F
i guess higher rpms = faster fan and more water being pumped & the engine is not working as hard.. seems logical.

2) my driver side exhaust pipe broke off/disconnected at the exhaust manifold flange next to the engine. it makes the car sound quite powerful
this threw a check engine light (o2 sensor downstream of this flange i assume isn't happy) and a po455 code - evap emission system large leak. these happened at basically the same time, even though most online info points to the gas cap as being the culprit for the P code.. i have a new one on order already for the po441 code im battling, fingers crossed that prevents those codes from showing up ever again.

3) when cruising around and actually idling down a gradual hill, the abs light comes on.. wtf. plus the check engine light was already on.. and then the paring brake light comes on.. huh?. pull over, restart the engine. all still there. then a few mins later the hill descent control light comes on too. now i have a Christmas tree dashboard again. pull over an hour later to let my dog cool down in a creek. start the car up to leave, and now all the lights are off. 3 hours of driving later and going home not one came back on. perfect no problems here
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:55 AM
ezzzzzzz ezzzzzzz is online now
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Buying a Land Rover is a great idea....until it isn't. There has to be a mental illness that has yet to be named for this. Two types of LR owners can be found. Both want the persona and 'status' of ownership. The first can't fix a lawnmower but jump in enthusiastically and learn through trial by fire. Then we have those seasoned and proficient owners that, despite the cost and frustrations, continue to buy these spawns of Satan. Having owned over 30 of these trucks (presently down to 6) I guess I fall into that latter group.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:29 PM
nedarb2 nedarb2 is offline
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I did the b mod to the shuttle valve today. took 1.5 hrs to do start to finish.
drove away, firstpot hole i hit on the road and 3 amigos plus parking brake light on. wtf!!!!

read the codes. at least its a new one. 66 - front left sensor

..--Previous Faults--->
Active Faults:
066:Front Left sensor electric fail
Logged Faults:
066:Front Left sensor electric fail
<-END Fault

my brakes ARE squealing, but i don't know if its front or back or both. i have new rear pads going on tomorrow. ill also clean/service the front brakes, and pull and inspect/clean the front left sensor, and bleed the brake system. if the sensor its chewed up ill order a new hub. if it looks ok ill order a new sensor. ill also get new front brake pads if still squealing after the rears are replaced.

ya think that'll be the end of my problems?! lol
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:06 AM
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:19 PM
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Does your truck happen to have a lift with ABS line extensions? these connections can drive you nuts and give you wheel sensor faults, where it's just an electric connector issue.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedarb2 View Post
I did the b mod to the shuttle valve today. took 1.5 hrs to do start to finish.
drove away, firstpot hole i hit on the road and 3 amigos plus parking brake light on. wtf!!!!

read the codes. at least its a new one. 66 - front left sensor

..--Previous Faults--->
Active Faults:
066:Front Left sensor electric fail
Logged Faults:
066:Front Left sensor electric fail
<-END Fault

my brakes ARE squealing, but i don't know if its front or back or both. i have new rear pads going on tomorrow. ill also clean/service the front brakes, and pull and inspect/clean the front left sensor, and bleed the brake system. if the sensor its chewed up ill order a new hub. if it looks ok ill order a new sensor. ill also get new front brake pads if still squealing after the rears are replaced.

ya think that'll be the end of my problems?! lol
If your front left brake is squealing, that's probably the problem. Check the pads/caliper and replace as necessary (rotors too, if those are chewed up).

Also, check your new electrical connections on your ABS mod wiring - especially the grounds. I did the modification and 6 month later the 3 amigos came back. Turned out to be the connection on the mod to ground (the chassis) came undone from the crimp. Redid it and haven't had a problem in 5+ years.
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