Disco 5: Let the depression set in

ukoffroad

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2010
2,125
168
Lynchburg, Va
My wife has an XC60 and I love that car. I think Volvos are like LRs in the sense that you love them or you do not get it. I like the LR3/4 styling. I love the newer Range Rovers as well. Hell, Aaronson had an Evoque with him at MAR two years ago and I liked it but did not drive it.

All that being said, I have a 67 and my next LR will be a Defender for flogging so I may not be the target audience. I kinda miss my DIIs but I am not having to fix them at the moment so I may have blanked that out of my memory.
 

JackW

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2005
675
69
Maybe there is hope... from a presentation for Automotive News

Yes it will have independent suspension and a lot of "stuff" but I could live with this shape and having the rear door mounted spare is a good step backward.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
There is hope, but I can guarantee that they will screw up the parts that aren't pictured on that outline. You can already see the tapered window line which will give it that cramped tunnel feel that is somehow a thing nowadays. There will also be hardly any trunk space from the look of it. I'm not anticipating Gerry McGovern will deliver anything but total disappointment.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
Why is it too much to ask for a durable SUV with cargo space, high payload, and off-road that doesn't look like a Corolla or a bug? There's nothing out there. Land Cruisers are $$$, uninspired, porky, and look stupid. LR4 is close, but aging, and can be fragile. D5 sucks in nearly every way. Tahoe looks good and has great cargo/payload, but is very limited off-road, and are quickly becoming high-dollar vehicles. New Wrangler is vastly improved, but still a toy. G-Wagen is for ballers and Kardashians. 4Runner is a bit small but mostly looks so ugly I pity those who embarrass themselves in one. Nissan XTerra is small and dead. Pathfinder and Explorer got a sex change.

Take any half to one-ton truck, shorten the wheelbase, extend the cab, and don't make it ugly. Done.
 

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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Why is it too much to ask for a durable SUV with cargo space, high payload, and off-road that doesn't look like a Corolla or a bug? There's nothing out there. Land Cruisers are $$$, uninspired, porky, and look stupid. LR4 is close, but aging, and can be fragile. D5 sucks in nearly every way. Tahoe looks good and has great cargo/payload, but is very limited off-road, and are quickly becoming high-dollar vehicles. New Wrangler is vastly improved, but still a toy. G-Wagen is for ballers and Kardashians. 4Runner is a bit small but mostly looks so ugly I pity those who embarrass themselves in one. Nissan XTerra is small and dead. Pathfinder and Explorer got a sex change.

Take any half to one-ton truck, shorten the wheelbase, extend the cab, and don't make it ugly. Done.

There are multiple one-offs of 4-door JK with a hard top sans stupid plastic removable panels floating around that seem to fit the bill. Too bad they all start their lives with a stupid combo of too-small tires on too-wide axles.
The interior room still sucks compared to LR3/4.

4-Rear-Jeep-Wrangler-Africa-Concept-Easter-Safari-Moab-3-31-15.jpg
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
Last year we picked up a TJ for top-down weekend wheeling. It goes anywhere, doesn’t break down, and I hate Jeeps so I don’t care about thrashing it.

For more utilitarian duties, I’ll stick with the LR3. I don’t want a pickup, every SUV has gone metrosexual, and the LR4 isn’t different enough to justify the headache of changing vehicles.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Why is it too much to ask for a durable SUV with cargo space, high payload, and off-road that doesn't look like a Corolla or a bug? There's nothing out there. Land Cruisers are $$$, uninspired, porky, and look stupid. LR4 is close, but aging, and can be fragile. D5 sucks in nearly every way. Tahoe looks good and has great cargo/payload, but is very limited off-road, and are quickly becoming high-dollar vehicles. New Wrangler is vastly improved, but still a toy. G-Wagen is for ballers and Kardashians. 4Runner is a bit small but mostly looks so ugly I pity those who embarrass themselves in one. Nissan XTerra is small and dead. Pathfinder and Explorer got a sex change.

Take any half to one-ton truck, shorten the wheelbase, extend the cab, and don't make it ugly. Done.

Ford is bringing back the Bronco on the Ranger platform we're about to get; the same platform that will host the next Raptor pickup. I find it hard to believe they won't capitalize on that new brand by applying it to a Bronco, as well.

What surprises me is the fact that Ford and Land Rover actually had something they could have done together properly this time. I'd have been on the phone as soon as that Bronco announcement was made. Here's what we have, show us what you have, and let's mix and match until we get it right.

The silhouette, though, is curious. Is that up-swept sill an indicator of an outstanding ramp break-over angle, body cladding/style features, or a combination of both (Vehicross)?


Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Maybe there is hope... from a presentation for Automotive News

Yes it will have independent suspension and a lot of "stuff" but I could live with this shape and having the rear door mounted spare is a good step backward.

Independent suspension is fine.

The off road electronics actually work, so I'm not too concerned about that. It's got to check all the boxes in order for people to be interested, and if I've got to have stability control and all that crap, they may as well make it useful off-pavement.

I just wish they'd give us a few more hints, but I suppose it's smart to tease a bit and gauge reactions.

Honestly, while I wouldn't have approved of it as a Defender replacement, I wouldn't mind having one of those DC-100 drop-tops as a runabout. I still think that looks cool, and it hasn't aged a day. Hell, call it the "Devoque" or something and slot it underneath the Defender; or above it... Whatever.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

p m

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Independent suspension is fine.

No it isn't.
Anyone with a little bit of reasoning can look at the vehicle and ponder: if I were to drive over a mudhole or a puddle full of branches that previous unlucky SOBs tossed under their wheels, what can get snagged and ripped off?

In case of a Defender - the answer is none.
In case of a Range Rover Classic or Disco 1, the answer is - ABS cable, maybe. Brake hose will crack anything short of a log good for a cabin builder. Who gives a flying fuck?

When I look at the underside of my wife's LR4, I shudder. No matter what I do to it, no matter what lifehack workarounds I find, it is terrifying. Not because an ABS cable or brake pads wear sensor cable can be snagged, but because it can completely, entirely, disable a vehicle.

That's beside the point that in a Defender or Range Rover Classic or Disco 1 there are 2 CV joints, protected against everything including a landmine. There are 8 CV joints in an LR3/4/5, protected against elements by 1/16" of rubber.
And, amazingly, all this IFS/IRS trickery does not even exempt you from driveshaft failures!!! Driveshafts that see no movement unchecked by engine/transmission/differential mounts!

Now, sorry that I had to edit it multiple times, but here's another thing to ponder.
Picture a wheel that has to come up 4" over a football-sized rock. With the axle width to the tune of 6 feet, and radius arms about 50" long, the rubber bushings have to accommodate the angle between 3 and 5 degrees, give or take. With IFS/IRS, and arms being about 20" long, the same wheel displacement translates into 11 degrees. It doesn't take a degree of rocket science to know that the bushings will not last that long. My personal case in point: LR4's front suspension bushings had to be replaced at around 40 kmi. My D1's radius arms bushings had to be replaced well after 200 kmi.

There you have it. No make/model/year is exempt from it. An LR3/4/5 will never be a Defender, and the new Defender built on LR3/4/5 platform will never be the beat-up junk that was driven in Camel Trophy or across Darien Gap.

This is not to say I have a beef with the progress. I love my LR4 even when it leaves me stranded within a $1000 tow bill from the nearest place that can fix it.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
I have to believe the bottom of the Defender will look a lot like the underside of your wifes LR4. I think it will be built in that platform. Maybe, hopefully with some modifications. I really really hope it's a steel sprung truck.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
No it isn't.
Anyone with a little bit of reasoning can look at the vehicle and ponder: if I were to drive over a mudhole or a puddle full of branches that previous unlucky SOBs tossed under their wheels, what can get snagged and ripped off?

In case of a Defender - the answer is none.
In case of a Range Rover Classic or Disco 1, the answer is - ABS cable, maybe. Brake hose will crack anything short of a log good for a cabin builder. Who gives a flying fuck?

When I look at the underside of my wife's LR4, I shudder. No matter what I do to it, no matter what lifehack workarounds I find, it is terrifying. Not because an ABS cable or brake pads wear sensor cable can be snagged, but because it can completely, entirely, disable a vehicle.

That's beside the point that in a Defender or Range Rover Classic or Disco 1 there are 2 CV joints, protected against everything including a landmine. There are 8 CV joints in an LR3/4/5, protected against elements by 1/16" of rubber.
And, amazingly, all this IFS/IRS trickery does not even exempt you from driveshaft failures!!! Driveshafts that see no movement unchecked by engine/transmission/differential mounts!

Now, sorry that I had to edit it multiple times, but here's another thing to ponder.
Picture a wheel that has to come up 4" over a football-sized rock. With the axle width to the tune of 6 feet, and radius arms about 50" long, the rubber bushings have to accommodate the angle between 3 and 5 degrees, give or take. With IFS/IRS, and arms being about 20" long, the same wheel displacement translates into 11 degrees. It doesn't take a degree of rocket science to know that the bushings will not last that long. My personal case in point: LR4's front suspension bushings had to be replaced at around 40 kmi. My D1's radius arms bushings had to be replaced well after 200 kmi.

There you have it. No make/model/year is exempt from it. An LR3/4/5 will never be a Defender, and the new Defender built on LR3/4/5 platform will never be the beat-up junk that was driven in Camel Trophy or across Darien Gap.

This is not to say I have a beef with the progress. I love my LR4 even when it leaves me stranded within a $1000 tow bill from the nearest place that can fix it.

What you say is true. That said, there are some seriously tough independent suspension systems out there, and I know darn well you've seen and likely driven them in your life.

Obviously, I doubt they'll use anything like that, preferring instead to just keep to the platform, but we don't even know what the thing is going to look like at this point.

I can't judge it based on suspension I haven't seen. All I can do is say that independent suspension is not immediately an issue. It's simply a probable issue.

Personally, I like the tracking stability it offers at higher speeds on rough terrain, but not all are equal. Most of the good stuff is found underneath heavy equipment, off-road transportation, racing-specific builds, and military vehicles.

I don't think Land Rover's current system is too bad, though. For what it's under and the price they charge, as well as the performance, it's pretty difficult to beat in the consumer utility market.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
This car company is so small and slow to bring stuff to market that companies could see the thing and build it first.

Strange how Land Rover is worried about copy-cats when their entire business survived on two vehicles that were precisely that. I don't believe they're as worried about the Chinese market as they claim.

I think they're full of shit, and I also think they just can't manage to put a stamp on styling; partially because it's going to take one hell of a leap of faith.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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What you say is true. That said, there are some seriously tough independent suspension systems out there, and I know darn well you've seen and likely driven them in your life.

Unless Twin Traction Beam is your idea of a pinnacle of reliability, I assume you mean Humvees?
That's a royal POS.
I haven't seen it personally, only heard about it - there used to be an H1 owners club in San Diego. Any time they set out on a trip to the desert, they'd have along a box of spare CV joints.

You should see a convoy of H1s on the move. Looks gnarly, until you notice that every wheel is pointing its own way.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Unless Twin Traction Beam is your idea of a pinnacle of reliability, I assume you mean Humvees?
That's a royal POS.
I haven't seen it personally, only heard about it - there used to be an H1 owners club in San Diego. Any time they set out on a trip to the desert, they'd have along a box of spare CV joints.

You should see a convoy of H1s on the move. Looks gnarly, until you notice that every wheel is pointing its own way.

No no no... Not a HMMWV. I don't like those at all, and I've been in my share of convoys. :rofl:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,689
182
minnesota
Finally saw one up-close today (at the same Byerlys I was tricked by the sport no less...).

The sloped front isn't great, but it's more unique and "Disco-y" than it looks in photos.

It's like those chicks who are pretty meh in pictures, but actually quite bangable in person :D
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Finally saw one up-close today (at the same Byerlys I was tricked by the sport no less...).

The sloped front isn't great, but it's more unique and "Disco-y" than it looks in photos.

It's like those chicks who are pretty meh in pictures, but actually quite bangable in person :D

Yup. I came upon one the other day, and it had me rather confused. I wasn't entirely sure what I was seeing.

Some vehicles just aren't photogenic. It looked like it would be a decent runabout, but so is an Outback; and it's a lot cheaper. The same goes for the Velar and Evoque, which leaves the Discovery as a primary utility vehicle.

That's a fair chunk of change for such a thing, when it doesn't really have as much personality or practicality as something like an LR4, or even older Discovery models.

Doesn't look near as "Ford" in person, though. It certainly looks as expensive as it is. Perhaps if the interior was a touch more unique.

Even if I would consider one, by the time you put anything on it you're tickling Range Rover prices; and I'm not seeing the value beyond overall vehicle quality and trim, which can, again, be had from Subaru at almost half the price; and both are darn decent off pavement.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

garrett

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Jun 18, 2004
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Middleburg, VA
www.blackdogmobility.com
Unfortunately, the Ford Explorer looks better. It's more balanced and significantly less lopsided. The few that I've seen with smaller rims and bigger tires actually look like they might not get shredded by a fire road.

I work at the State Depts Driver Training Unit facility and they have been "testing" the Explorer quite a bit, along with several other vehicles. But they have been quite reliable.

They are looking for replacements for the 3/4 ton Suburban as that been their mainstay for a long time and is no longer available. The Explorer won't be filling the void, but they tend to use quite a variety for different applications.