DiscoWeb Message Boards
 

Go Back   DiscoWeb Message Boards > DiscoWeb Technical Boards > Discovery - Technical Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-19-2018, 12:48 PM
Blue's Avatar
Blue Blue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,125
Member Trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Blake View Post
Thanks robert! Looks great, thanks for taking the time to mock that up. It's on the wrong side though,

I haven't seen a spindle with bushings as opposed to bearings. I'll keep looking around. The one I linked above has 2.25" OD on the sleeve, and I'm pretty sure it can fit with a minor cutout in the body panel.
But do you really want to hack up your truck? Or hack it up more?
__________________
Blue
2004 D2
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-19-2018, 01:18 PM
robertf robertf is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,760
Member Trucks
The IPOR spindle is 2” od and uses bushings
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-19-2018, 05:35 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pacific Beach, San Diego
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
But do you really want to hack up your truck? Or hack it up more?
I don't mind. I need to do something about those missing plastic corner pieces anyway (other than getting plastic corner pieces). I've already done plenty of cutting... mantec snorkel, quarter panels, air fitting cutouts, roof holes, firewall is swiss cheese with all the wires...

I don't think 2" vs 2.25" OD is going to make the different either. I'll need ~9-10" of clearance above the hole for the spindle in order to fit the carrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
The IPOR spindle is 2? od and uses bushings
I talked with the guys at A-Z Fab today, and they were pretty adamant about bearings. They used to do bushings, but the failure rate was really high.

A-Z isn't concerned with the tire load being on the opposite side. He says weight is not the issue, it's stabilizing the carrier from any movement. He recommends a heavy duty plastic pad to go on the latch side, where the arm will rest on when closed. He also said it's important to have something to prevent forward to back movement, (i.e. stopping the car fast)

For those reasons, I liked the concept of 4xinnovations hinge http://www.4xinnovations.com/Swing-O...bly_p_109.html
As it has lock-pins for closed, 90 degree, and 130 degree open. But I don't like how it mounts to the face of the bumper, so it's out.

A-Z suggested 2x2x 1/8" wall steel for the carrier.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-19-2018, 05:59 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH fishEH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 6,058
I haven't had any issues with mine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMAG0826_zpsgvji0noz.jpg (103.2 KB, 62 views)
__________________
'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-19-2018, 06:47 PM
robertf robertf is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,760
Member Trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Blake View Post
I talked with the guys at A-Z Fab today, and they were pretty adamant about bearings. They used to do bushings, but the failure rate was really high.

A-Z isn't concerned with the tire load being on the opposite side. He says weight is not the issue, it's stabilizing the carrier from any movement. He recommends a heavy duty plastic pad to go on the latch side, where the arm will rest on when closed. He also said it's important to have something to prevent forward to back movement, (i.e. stopping the car fast)

For those reasons, I liked the concept of 4xinnovations hinge http://www.4xinnovations.com/Swing-O...bly_p_109.html
As it has lock-pins for closed, 90 degree, and 130 degree open. But I don't like how it mounts to the face of the bumper, so it's out.

A-Z suggested 2x2x 1/8" wall steel for the carrier.
I'm pretty adamant about not using bearings. Did they say what material or size bushings were failing? I don't believe a bronze bushing in the 1.25 and up shaft diameter is failing when holding up a 200lb tire 4' away

2x2 x 1/8" is probably fine. I went with 3 x 1.5, its slightly heavier but the deflection when open is around half. The extra half inch width adds no strength, only the vertical dimension is significant in this application.

They are right about stabilizing it. Thats one of the reasons I use the roller. When closed it deflects the beam upwards to pre load it, and the heim linkage is adjusted to compress the rubber bumper on the back to pre load it that way.

edit: Looked at their website. I see they have the spindle in double shear, thats how they are getting away with a spindle diameter small enough to trash bushings and not bend. theres no room for that on the top of the bumper

Last edited by robertf; 01-19-2018 at 07:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-07-2018, 10:32 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pacific Beach, San Diego
Posts: 205
I think they were using bronze.. or was it brass? One of the B's.

My tire weighs in at 80lbs... what are you running, a tractor??

Anyway I haven't made much progress on this lately due to work.

I am still leaning towards the A-Z spindle, as its widely used, and I don't think 2.25" diameter will be an issue.

Next step is to order the hardware and drop by the welder to have a chat. Chuck ( https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/d-an...C7fsZNKg6y0Slw ) has a cool outdoor shop by the beach and did the welding for the GD bumper. I want to have the parts in hand so he can better figure out what he wants to do.

I tried to source some 14x1.5 studs for the mount off Mcmaster, but no luck. But then I remembered I have two new wheel hubs sitting around, so I think I'll install one of those and use the old wheel hub for the mount... one less task for the welder.

For the clamp, I think I'll use a toggle clamp like fishEH.

Delrin pad for the carrier to rest on in the locked position
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:55 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH fishEH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 6,058
Have your fabricator weld the tire mount at the same angle as the rear door. Not only will it look tight but it will move some of the tire weight back over the center of the carrier.
__________________
'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-08-2018, 02:50 PM
Blue's Avatar
Blue Blue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,125
Member Trucks
Do you think it makes a significant difference to mount the spare backwards (with the inside of the rim facing out) like Mercedes does on the G-wagon? It certainly makes sense because the weight of the rim's face is held further inboard. What's a Rover alloy rim weigh? About 30 or 40 lbs?
__________________
Blue
2004 D2
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-08-2018, 04:10 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH fishEH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 6,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Do you think it makes a significant difference to mount the spare backwards (with the inside of the rim facing out) like Mercedes does on the G-wagon? It certainly makes sense because the weight of the rim's face is held further inboard. What's a Rover alloy rim weigh? About 30 or 40 lbs?
That doesn't make any sense.
__________________
'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-08-2018, 05:39 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pacific Beach, San Diego
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Have your fabricator weld the tire mount at the same angle as the rear door. Not only will it look tight but it will move some of the tire weight back over the center of the carrier.
Good idea, thanks

Alright did a better mockup. This tube is 8" long, 2.25" diameter. The actual outer hinge tube is 4" long, but I figured I'll need twice the vertical clearance to install it.

It's awfully tight... it *might* work if the 1.5" diameter spindle is welded to the inside face of the bumper, so that the outer tube is offset towards the face, as in the picture.

Or... do a little body trimming...

Or...?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 91JGmAL2TdCO8EGJDf3HdA.jpg (156.0 KB, 33 views)
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 02-08-2018, 06:37 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pacific Beach, San Diego
Posts: 205
A-Z is recommending "You may need to slice the front face of the bumper and have the spindle half in and half out. We have done that before with good results."

Seems like a smart move.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02-08-2018, 08:08 PM
Blue's Avatar
Blue Blue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,125
Member Trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
That doesn't make any sense.
It does if the mounting plate is pulled closer inboard.
__________________
Blue
2004 D2
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02-08-2018, 11:22 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH fishEH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 6,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
It does if the mounting plate is pulled closer inboard.
That seems like a major PITA, especially with an alloy wheel and the lug nuts.
__________________
'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02-08-2018, 11:43 PM
Blue's Avatar
Blue Blue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,125
Member Trucks
Seems pretty cool, would love to have my spare mounted face-in almost directly on the door rather than cantilevered out on the mount.

On the other hand, people buy reverse mounts so they can have the matching dub facing outwards. LOL

http://911motorsports.net/Mercedes-G...W463_p_39.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpg g spot.jpg (41.3 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg g spot2.jpg (78.0 KB, 29 views)
__________________
Blue
2004 D2
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:11 AM
robertf robertf is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,760
Member Trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Blake View Post
A-Z is recommending "You may need to slice the front face of the bumper and have the spindle half in and half out. We have done that before with good results."

Seems like a smart move.
Sounds like what I suggested 3 weeks ago
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:21 AM
robertf robertf is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,760
Member Trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Seems pretty cool, would love to have my spare mounted face-in almost directly on the door rather than cantilevered out on the mount.

On the other hand, people buy reverse mounts so they can have the matching dub facing outwards. LOL

http://911motorsports.net/Mercedes-G...W463_p_39.html
Im running offset aftermarket wheels so there is no benefit to flipping the wheel. Id imagine most people running a wheel tire combo heavy enough to damage the door hinges are also running offset wheels
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:40 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH fishEH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 6,058
Looks like the rubber is about as far off the door as with the stock carrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Seems pretty cool, would love to have my spare mounted face-in almost directly on the door rather than cantilevered out on the mount.

On the other hand, people buy reverse mounts so they can have the matching dub facing outwards. LOL

http://911motorsports.net/Mercedes-G...W463_p_39.html
__________________
'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:57 PM
Blue's Avatar
Blue Blue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 8,125
Member Trucks
The point is that the heavier face of the rim is closer in if it's mounted (what we would call) backwards. It wouldn't make a difference if the face of the rim was exactly in the center of the rim in cross section but it is not.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wheel_guide.jpg (18.1 KB, 9 views)
__________________
Blue
2004 D2
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:25 PM
robertf robertf is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,760
Member Trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
The point is that the heavier face of the rim is closer in if it's mounted (what we would call) backwards. It wouldn't make a difference if the face of the rim was exactly in the center of the rim in cross section but it is not.
The difference is about the same as having 1 additional beer in the cooler directly above the rear axle
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:16 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH fishEH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 6,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
The difference is about the same as having 1 additional beer in the cooler directly above the rear axle
Exactly. Its an over complicated solution to a non-existent problem.
__________________
'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 03-20-2018, 09:15 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pacific Beach, San Diego
Posts: 205
Small update here

Parts are all ordered. Going for a pretty simple and traditional setup:

Spindle from AZ fabrication
Spring pin (for locking the carrier open - welded to spindle sleeve) https://www.mcmaster.com/#91712a119/=1c24bxt
Toggle clamp (had to get the 1000lbs version, as the u-bolt on the 2000lb version are too long) https://www.mcmaster.com/#5135a42/=1c24cah
Steel disc (will weld to the bumper, and the spring pin will lock into this) - https://www.mcmaster.com/#7786t62/=1c24cmb
Old wheel hub to use for the wheel mount (installed a new wheel hub today).. need to press the bearing assembly off, leaving just the plate

The best, and simplest latch design for the GD bumper I think is going to be a "corner bracket / hollow gusset", which serves multiple purposes: elevated area for the carrier to rest on, taking weight off the spindle, rear bumper to stop forward movement, and a right angle toggle clamp mounted on the carrier, with the hook on the outside of the corner bracket.

Here's a terrible drawing. The reason for the rectangular mount is so a table will fit on the backside nicely. Considering the wheel hub will be 4-6" away from this, do you think there will be any supports needed?
Once the spindle arrives I'll take the hardware to a local welder
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1Uy4ft7RSJ+DAXALOh7ZJg.jpg (215.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg COzVtA%qRt2tGJCg+GJgDg.jpg (216.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0155.jpg (103.2 KB, 19 views)
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 03-21-2018, 11:08 AM
JohnHZ3 JohnHZ3 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 7
I have been planning on doing this for a few years and finally got around to it thanks in part to this thread. The rear door was already damaged prior to my ownership and was difficult to close. The tire is 315/75R16 which is obviously way too heavy to be mounted to the door. I looked into all the parts offered for sale but decided none were exactly what I wanted. I liked the bushings of the Iron Pig spindle and the dual shear bracket of the Comp 4x4 version. I also liked the idea of a sleeve welded into the bumper rather than welding the spindle in place. This will allow for easy replacement or removal of the spindle in the unlikely event in gets damaged.

After measuring numerous times I drilled through the top and bottom of the bumper using a 2" hole saw. Then using an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel I connected the two circular cuts. A piece of 2" OD 1-1/2" ID tubing was tack welded as squarely as possible into the cutout. The hinge pin is 1-1/2" diameter steel. The carrier pivot is 2-1/4" OD 1-3/4" ID tubing with bronze bushings inserted (which were removed and replaced with new ones after welding). The frame is constructed of 3" x 1-1/2" (1/8 wall) tubing and 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" (1/8 wall) tubing. I added a dual-shear bracket to the pivot point to increase the rigidity. I modified and reused the mounting bracket which had been installed on the door for the rim mounting. After welding and mounting the carrier frame, I was disappointed by the amount of flex/bounce with the tire installed. All the flex was in the bumper itself and not the carrier or hinge. I ended up making an additional bracket, which mounts in the stock location on the door, to anchor the carrier to the door. It also doubles as the antennae mount. All the weight is still on the bumper. Everywhere a structural bolt mounts to the bumper I installed a rivet nut insert for added strength and grade 8 hardware was used. I am pleased with the appearance and strength. Having to loosen 3 screw-in handles is a bit cumbersome to open the carrier but ultimately I decided it was more important to have it securely attached.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bumper cutout.jpg (92.2 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg sleeve in bumper.jpg (66.4 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg hinge mockup.jpg (83.6 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by JohnHZ3; 03-22-2018 at 11:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 03-21-2018, 11:10 AM
JohnHZ3 JohnHZ3 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 7
More pictures
Attached Images
File Type: jpg back no tire.jpg (72.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg back.jpg (109.5 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg hinge.jpg (97.9 KB, 24 views)
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 03-21-2018, 04:19 PM
jymmiejamz's Avatar
jymmiejamz jymmiejamz is offline
KN4JHI
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,161
Nice work. It would be really cool if it were attached to the rear door like on a NAS D90 soft top tire carrier.
__________________
@carcampingcollective
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 03-21-2018, 04:22 PM
K-rover's Avatar
K-rover K-rover is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,731
Member Trucks
That looks really good!
__________________
2001 D2
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Greg Davis Bumper with Tire Carrier Jrod Discovery - Technical Discussions 2 08-08-2016 09:20 AM
35's and Greg Davis bumper? bmxer06pa Discovery - Technical Discussions 30 11-21-2012 04:50 PM
Spare tire carrier for Greg Davis rear bumper Keanan Discovery - Technical Discussions 10 01-04-2012 09:10 PM
Equipe 4x4 winch bumper & Greg Davis Rear bumper for DII benpearson05 Parts For Sale 37 03-02-2010 09:31 PM
Greg Davis bumper - DONE! barshnik Discovery - Technical Discussions 15 09-24-2007 03:45 PM

» Log in
User Name Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Password
» Today's Birthdays
Brian425 (49)
GuntherRocks (38)
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2000 - 2015, DiscoWeb.org. All rights reserved.

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.