Dealer says my engine is leaking oil because it is synthetic.. BS?

Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
Wow. I cant keep up with all the emails and PMs. Many asking what oils are good for what engine.

The flat tappet design of Rovers V8 puts a lot of stress on the cam lobes. You needa good cushion of oil for the lifter to ride on. The sheer rating is a measure of resistance to sheering off the oil.....On a rover engine, a min of 3.5 is needed. THe reason diesel oils have a high sheer rating is because the cam is pushing into engines with 3 times the compression of gas.

This is a topic that is tough to relay over a forum...So, as a GENERAL list...Here goes...My picks would probably be Valvoline Synpower 5W-40, Mobil 1 5W-30, Mobil Clean 5000 5W-30 (if the price is good enough) and Castrol GTX or Motorcraft 5W-20. If I couldn't get the Clean 5000 5W-30 cheap enough, I'd get whatever is cheap and ILSAC GF-4/GM 6094M approved and then some of thecheapest GM 4718M approved stuff I can find for the sludge sensitive cars that only "require" ILSAC GF-4 (there are several other ways to go including BG MOA for the sludge motors).

For European Cars: Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula The European Valvoline Synpower 5W-40 and 5W-30(MST only, the regular Synpower 5W-30 and other Synpower do NOT cut it) Castrol Syntec 0W-30 and 5W-40 (Other Syntecs do NOT cut it)The good (European) Valvoline Synpower is very hard to find but it is a low SAPS version that reflects what future European formula oil will be. It even meets VW 505.01 TDI-PD diesel)!

For American and Japanese cars requireing special "synthetics" Mobil 1 5W-30, 5W-20 and 0W-20 are all excellent.

Texaco/Havoline and some Chevron, Shell, Kendal, Conoco/Phillips/Union, etc brands all have a pretty cost effective 5W-30 that is GM 4718M if you need something cheap just for Covettes and other GM cars that require premium oil or if you are just looking for a good oil to use for cars that "require" nothing special but could use a bit of extra protection (they are still API & ILSAC & most American & Japanese OEM approved)

You still need a "plain jane" SAE 5W-30 oil all the Chevys, Toyotas, etc. Just make sure it is ILSAC GF-4 and GM 6094M Approved

And you need an SAE 5W-20 for all those Fords, Hondas and a growing number of other cars. I think for this category should be WSS-M2C153-H (Ford Double time standard) approved as well as ILSAC GF-4. Motorcraft does not display that "double time" spec but it is real good stuff. I think Castrol GTX and Valvoline All Climate may be WSS-M2C153-H approved but check the bottle or product data sheet.

Lets look at a few at a time. Starting with Valvoline Synpower:
www.valvoline.com/products/Synpower.pdf

Notice that there are two different versions of Valvoline Synpower 5W-30. Scroll down to the bottom to find the second one (Synpower MST) with the European formula 5W-40 and 20W-50.

This dispells a bunch of rumers already. First, the standard Valvoline Synpower does not meet ANY industry standard oil service ratings that would indicate that it is significantly better than any conventional SAE 5W-30 oil. It doesnt even claim to pass the GM 4718M rating. If anyone thinks thats just because Valvoline doesnt choose to list all those ratings.......scan down to the bottom and look at how many proprietary ratings are listed on the same sheet for the other 5W-30. This is synthetic marketing magic.

The second page of this product data sheet shows an outstanding SAE 5W-30 for European cars and an outstanding 5W-40 for European cars. These are low SAPS oils with outsanding shear protection. Valvoline does not list their HTHS ratings but the ACEA approvals assure us that they are both above 3.5 (much higher than the SAE required 2.9). So, they dispell another myth. These two products are actually lower Sulfated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulfer (SAPS) and lower ZDDP content than just about anything you can buy at any price, but they also provide BETTER HTHS and extreme pressure protection than most other oil products. They are slightly lower than the ILSAC GF-4 approved Synpowers on the top page, and still provide MUCH better protection for camshafts, lifters and other components.

Lets dispell one more myth before leaving this page. Many claim that Total Base Number (TBN), tells the whole story of acid fignting capability and how long an oil will last. The oil products on the top page have a TBN of 8 and the oil products on the bottom have a TBN of 7. But, the ones on the bottom base numerous extended drain interval approvals*, and the ones on the top dont pass any extended drain interval approvals. ACEA A3/B3/B4/C3, MB 229.3, 229.31,229.5, 229.51, BMW LL-01, LL04 all include extended drain interval approval.

Now look at the product data sheet for Valvoline Durablend:
www.valvoline.com/products/Durablend.pdf
And the conventional Valvoline All Climate:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/All-Climate.pdf

The difference between Durablend or All-Climate and the European Synpower is significant and obvious. But, what isthe real difference between the page one Synpower and Durablend or All-Climate? The WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A and
the MS 6395M duplicate the ILSAC GF-4 approvals so there is no difference there. There really isnt much difference in ratings, but the price difference is huge.

This is a bit dated now but still a good read. The part about ILSAC GF-4 significantly proving engine valvetrain protection may not apply to older flat tappet camshaft engines.

http://home.insightbb.com/~st1100/GM_Oil_Primer.pdf

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp


Mobil 1 5W-30 now also meets ACEA A5/B5 and honda HTO-06.

www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp
Compare it to the Valvoline European Synpower 5W-40

And the Mobil 1 0W-30 www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-30.asp You might think this is similar to Castrol Syntec 0W-30. Compare the data sheets and decide for yourself..........

www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Clean_5000.asp Notice this conventional oil is API SM/CF approved. That means better acid fighting for those sludge making Chryslers and Toyotas.

www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Clean_7500.asp
www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_inter...local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_inter...NG/local_assets/downloads/p,q/psd_gtx_usa.pdf

www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_inter...assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_blend_usa.pdf

And here is the pennzoil full synthetic: www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/EngineOils/Pdf/PlatinumFullSyntheticMotorOil.pdf
Compare it to the Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower. Does it meet any ACEA, MB, BMW or VW approvals?
www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/EngineOils/pdf/SUVTruckMinivanMotorOil.PDF
 
Last edited:

Disco2Guy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2007
242
0
That's some good info even though most of it is over my head. After poking around Mobil's site I found that the regular Mobil1 10W-30 syn does not meet the ACEA standards, but the high mileage version of both 10W-30 and 10W-40 DO meet the ACEA requirements.

High Mileage specs

Regular specs
 
E

ek5usmc

Guest
I didnt see ILSAC GF4 approved on any of that or the sheer rating, am I reading it wrong? So as long as it's sheer rating is at a minimum of 3.5, than it's safe. Now I'm going to be in Walmart reading all of it. I only would like to use Mobil1 or Val Syntec, since they are the leading synthetic brands. 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, 0w40, 5w40, 10w40, 15w40???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
I woudl have to double check. I got typing then went on a tangent and started grabbing bookmarks and stuff.

However, the best short rule of thumb (at least as I see it) is a sheer rating of at least 3.5 and meets A3/B3, A3/B4 or C3 for Rover engines.

I've only really been studying oils and coolants for about a year, so I'm still a little green.... There are guys who know much more then me that might have other requirments.... That said, I woudl use only oils with at least 3.5 sheer and rated A3/B3, A3/B4 or C3 in a flat lifter engine like a rover.
 

rover4x4

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2004
5,228
45
41
North Carolina, Raleigh
Ive been using the Mobil "high mileage" 10-40 not for the "high mileage" benefits but for the 10w40. Ive had some stuff get loosened up in my engine and block an oil passage, the synthetics might be an idea in a higher mileage rover with questionable service history. Ill keep using the Mobil but may switch to the Rotella since I could get it for free.
 

fosterchild420

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2008
301
0
Prospect, VA, USA
sorry i went back and read my previous post about the noise in the left bank and i forgot to start a new paragraph. I was refering to the DII having the noise in the left bank. The beamer makes noise in everything it does. Kinda sounds like a diesal, but that is because i have not gotten around to adjusting the valves in like 50k miles+......
 

adriatic04

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2007
2,506
2
cleveland, oh
so when is a safe time to use synthetics with the detergents?

40k miles on a d2, had it since 20k, run rotella 15w40 during the year, but in winter run castrol 10w30 dino. never thought i needed to switch to sythetics, but if it makes sense long term to keep things clean, im game.
 

adriatic04

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2007
2,506
2
cleveland, oh
wish I did last week before I dumped it in.

so rotella 15w40 year round, or should I be making a switch to synthetic, this thread is giving me a headache
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
I would use 15-40, UNLESS it got so cold the engine cant spin 50rpm while cranking(Needed to start) in that case I would go lighter but still meets spec..

I reason I am so hot for Rotella is it meets spec, is cheap, and avalible everywhere.
 

cdodkin

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2006
246
0
CA + AZ
www.d30-images.com
I seem to remember, back in the winter of 2005 Land Rover issued a bulletin on correct fluids for the different models.

For the New Range Rover ? 2003 and up ? Land Rover recommends 0-30, 0-40, 5-30, or 5-40 API SJ engine oils. Most of the oils that meet that spec are synthetic. The brands you'll see are Mobil 1 0-40, Mobil 5-30 Extended Performance, BMW 5-30 synthetic, and Castrol Syntec.

Land Rover specifies synthetic oils only for the Freelander, in 5-50, 0-40, or 5-40 weight.

For all other models, Land Rover calls for a SJ/SH oil in 5-30 or 5-40 for summer and 10-40 for winter. I use full synthetic (Mobil1 SUV) 5-30 year round for my climate.

Engines that have sludge buildup from a lack of maintenance earlier in life often benefit from the faster flow rate of 0-40 Mobil 1.

Engines in cold climates do well with this oil, too. (Good for sub zero starts)
 

cdodkin

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2006
246
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CA + AZ
www.d30-images.com
Chris-St Louis said:
I also remember you and I debating oil a while back... I didnt know what I know now.

Hey, I made it easy for you - I kept my Pro Syn Sig! :smilelol: :smilelol: :smilelol:

As far as I can tell, I haven't pointed the finger at all in this thread - just referenced a LR TSB on oils.

Is that a problem?
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
Dunno, I havent looked at the new engines. Rover just indicates FUll Syn with the API rating, But Jag calls for GF-3.

Nah, you didnt point the figner, but I might have been argueing bad information when we last talked,and I'm man enough to admit it...Thats all. :)
 

Dangeruss

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2007
104
1
Ontario, Canada
FWIW, I got my 04 D2 with a little over 100,000 km on it and it didn't leak a drop. First oil change I switched to synthetic and within days I could smell oil getting on the exhaust manifold, leaking from the valve cover gasket.
 

cdodkin

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2006
246
0
CA + AZ
www.d30-images.com
Chris-St Louis said:
Dunno, I havent looked at the new engines. Rover just indicates FUll Syn with the API rating, But Jag calls for GF-3.

Nah, you didnt point the figner, but I might have been argueing bad information when we last talked,and I'm man enough to admit it...Thats all. :)

Hey, I was impressed - I read your posts and saw you actually gave the thumbs up to Mobil1 5W30 - I still have the bruise from where I fell off my chair!! ;)

On the new Jag V8 - I checked the specs and Mobil1 5W30 SUV and 5W30 are good to go - I have the 5W30 SUV in my LR3 now - local stealership were happy for me to give them 9 qts instead of the 'free' oil they would have provided as part of the LR service package.

Come to think of it - they owe me the balance on the 9th Qt! :banghead:
 

cdodkin

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2006
246
0
CA + AZ
www.d30-images.com
Dangeruss said:
FWIW, I got my 04 D2 with a little over 100,000 km on it and it didn't leak a drop. First oil change I switched to synthetic and within days I could smell oil getting on the exhaust manifold, leaking from the valve cover gasket.

If it's not leaking oil - your D2 has run dry! :smilelol:

It's a 'feature' - note the oil capture device under the D2 in my garage, and the lack of said device under my LR3 :ack:
 

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