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  #1  
Old 10-02-2018, 02:57 PM
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Are spacers used just because they are cheaper and easier to find than the correct length and rate of springs?


Any advantage v disadvantage for them. Does it affect the overall goal, height of lift, performance of the spring, travel etc.?
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:19 PM
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depends on what you want to do. spacers do not give you more travel, just height. Springs do both. Some folks use a mix.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:46 PM
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There's no reason to use spacers other than cost savings.

A good aftermarket suspension setup can greatly improve both on-road and off-road handling. Spacers will just throw off your suspension geometry with the benefit being more tire gap.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:53 PM
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I run 3" springs and 1.5" spacers. I added the spacers when I went to 35" tires because a good 4.5-5" lift was not available at the time. This combo works just fine for me. I have tons of travel front and rear, partly due to the panhard link in the back (i got rid of the watts link) and all heim jointed steering components in the front.

BUT...to answer your question. I WOULD NOT run just spacers on stock flimsy springs....
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by squirt View Post
A good aftermarket suspension setup can greatly improve both on-road and off-road handling.
I wonder which is it - haven't come across one in 20 years.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by p m View Post
I wonder which is it - haven't come across one in 20 years.

Funny - I've had the opposite experience - starting with my first many years ago, which was a used OME HD spring/shock combo.

Compared to the old, worn-out stock suspension, it would be difficult not to see an improvement in both areas.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:31 AM
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I wonder which is it - haven't come across one in 20 years.
Heh. Stop by sometime and I'll carve you a few corners.

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Old 10-03-2018, 11:55 AM
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Compared to the old, worn-out stock suspension, it would be difficult not to see an improvement in both areas.
This.

Compared to not old and worn out stock suspension, everything else means giving up some ground.
I replaced a perfectly good stock suspension on ex-my green D1 with OME, and immediately found that I only gained a bit of body ground clearance. Everything else I lost, handling first and foremost.

Kennith, I call your bluff. I don't give a shit what suspension you have, but if you have non-stock geometry, your handling sucks compared to a new stock D2 suspension.

This topic has been beaten to death, in jeep circles a lot earlier than in land rover. If you want more clearance, cut a ton of sheetmetal, bolt on larger tires, and keep the suspension stock.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirt View Post
There's no reason to use spacers other than cost savings.

A good aftermarket suspension setup can greatly improve both on-road and off-road handling. Spacers will just throw off your suspension geometry with the benefit being more tire gap.
Not necessarily. Some folks use spacers for leveling, etc. I would agree that in most cases a spring is a better solution to a problem.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by p m View Post
This.

Compared to not old and worn out stock suspension, everything else means giving up some ground.
I replaced a perfectly good stock suspension on ex-my green D1 with OME, and immediately found that I only gained a bit of body ground clearance. Everything else I lost, handling first and foremost.

Kennith, I call your bluff. I don't give a shit what suspension you have, but if you have non-stock geometry, your handling sucks compared to a new stock D2 suspension.

This topic has been beaten to death, in jeep circles a lot earlier than in land rover. If you want more clearance, cut a ton of sheetmetal, bolt on larger tires, and keep the suspension stock.
You're right about the geometry, but it's not an issue with handling. Tracking on long straights isn't as ideal, but cornering is not adversely affected when combined with the rest of the system. It's capable, but in a slightly different way.

That places them neck and neck until you factor in the stiffer springs and what you can do with them when you leave the pavement for dirt, sand, and gravel.

I'll pit mine against a stock unit on pavement, and I'll pit it against a stock unit with ACE on a combined course.

My suspension isn't anything special, as anything beyond bolt-on becomes difficult to service or replace in the field. Right now, it's sitting on an OME combination; raked out like an unloaded pickup truck.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2018, 03:23 AM
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A properly executed spacer kit is good enough and should not cause any problem.
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bnmack1 View Post
A properly executed spacer kit is good enough and should not cause any problem.
Good enough for what?

Obviously it's good enough to fit bigger tires, but these aren't leaf sprung pickups. There is a difference.

When it comes down to brass tacks, you don't need any of this shit to run a trail, but the combinations of trail and road ask a little more of how well you put things together these days.

Land Rovers handle well in general, and PM is correct in the assertion that you're not likely to improve things if you're not making very deliberate modifications.

They may not be particularly modern, but Rovers are actually surprisingly nimble. You can't treat them like pickups and Jeeps and expect to keep that ability.

Cheers,

Kennith
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:33 PM
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OME HD lift is an improvement in handling if you have a lot of weight in your vehicle. On road empty it sucks every time you hit a bump. It's only good on a freshly paved road otherwise.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:58 PM
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It's been so long since I've driven a Land Rover with stock suspension that I wouldn't know what to do if my '04 Disco had a smooth, supple ride. Although I will admit that I do enjoy the smooth ride of my OME HD suspension when I hit the road all loaded up for a trip.
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kennith View Post

Land Rovers <...> may not be particularly modern, but Rovers are actually surprisingly nimble. You can't treat them like pickups and Jeeps and expect to keep that ability.
I definitely second this feeling. I was surprised how vague the steering was on a G500 (after finding how vague the steering was on a long wheelbase JK).
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:10 PM
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Im running 1" spacers under my 3" coils on the rear. I personally wouldnt run anything taller than 1" spacers. And I sure as hell wouldnt run spacers on stock coils!
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:05 AM
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I've only used the thin spacers to level spring height due to springs sagging mostly on drivers side.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:57 PM
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Land Rover spent so much money and time engineering and testing all these complicated suspension bits to actually work well together in a variety of situations it seems like altering even one tiny bit of that mechanical puzzle can lead to huge or subtle downstream effects. I'm a big fan of stock because that crap has been tested and tested and tested and thousands upon thousands of real world individual scenarios and events.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:28 PM
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Describing the factory coil-sprung suspension of the RRC/D1 as "complicated" feels like an overstatement, however I agree with the idea that all the stock bits were designed to work together. What often gets overlooked in these conversations is how capable a Rover is without modifications. I enjoy the handling of my D1 and RRC in stock/close-to-stock form and for the majority of off-road driving that I do their performance does not leave me wanting. Choosing the right tire for the kind of driving you do might be the only change you need to make.

Part of the enjoyment of Rover ownership is configuring the vehicle the way you want it. This guy wants custom springs to support the weight of all the equipment he has added to his truck, someone else is happy to drive a vehicle unchanged from the factory. It's all a matter of what you want out of it.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Although I will admit that I do enjoy the smooth ride of my OME HD suspension when I hit the road all loaded up for a trip.
Agreed. This is how our RRC LWB is set up as we carry a lot of stuff on extended camping trips and use 235/85-16 tires. However the D1 is totally stock including the tire size. It does ride better yet it is not used the same as the Rangie.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:30 PM
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It's all a matter of what you want out of it.
You nailed it, and this gets lost all the time. The first question should always be what do you want the truck to do? West coast stuff is very different from east coast stuff in terms of offroading, etc. I have maybe 60 feet of rope on my winch and an extension. That would make little sense out west, but here I am seldom very far from a tree that works and so there is less load on my winch. If you want bigger tires for esthetics but you are just camping out of it and not really flexing it spacers may be an acceptable compromise.

How many poser trucks are there with 2k in bumpers that have been on nothing harder than a dirt road?
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:13 PM
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I just need the spacers to level my truck out for a 15yr old OME kit. The driver's side is down over two inches. Whenever someone asks about the lean I tell them it's because of the large cojones of the driver.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CORover View Post
Are spacers used just because they are cheaper and easier to find than the correct length and rate of springs?


Any advantage v disadvantage for them. Does it affect the overall goal, height of lift, performance of the spring, travel etc.?
Spacers are cheaper, yes. They are a great solution if you just want to lift the truck and run larger tires without adding a bunch of weight. You should consider dropping your rear shock mounts down to compensate. The front shock length will already be accounted for with the spacers. A spacer will have the least amount of handling side effects. There will still be some, like COG and castor, but less than if you changed spring rates and shocks.

Springs are for people that want to lift their truck AND add weight. If you're not adding weight there's nothing a spring will get you that a spacer won't.
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2018, 01:46 PM
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Springs are for people that want to lift their truck AND add weight. If you're not adding weight there's nothing a spring will get you that a spacer won't.
It's important to consider the tradeoffs of any modification. Once you deviate from stock you are going to give something up in one area for an advantage gained elsewhere. Spacers, for example, will raise your truck and allow you to fit larger tires, thereby raising your truck even further. The drawback that comes with this is a higher center of gravity for which the stock suspension is not designed. By fitting taller (and usually stiffer) springs, you mitigate - to some extent - the drawback of raising the center of gravity on the softer stock springs.

Ultimately people are going to do what they want with their trucks for whatever reasons. One guy's good idea is another's head-shaker.
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2018, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
It's important to consider the tradeoffs of any modification. Once you deviate from stock you are going to give something up in one area for an advantage gained elsewhere. Spacers, for example, will raise your truck and allow you to fit larger tires, thereby raising your truck even further. The drawback that comes with this is a higher center of gravity for which the stock suspension is not designed. By fitting taller (and usually stiffer) springs, you mitigate - to some extent - the drawback of raising the center of gravity on the softer stock springs.

Ultimately people are going to do what they want with their trucks for whatever reasons. One guy's good idea is another's head-shaker.
It does get pretty interesting at the semi-production level, though.

Check out the AEV Prospector and Prospector XL, and how they've managed the clearance. Obviously there's fender trimming on the XL, but they made a few custom parts to realign things under both units, and supposedly replicate a factory ride as closely as possible.

I kind of want one of those. Shame you have to have one of these new-fangled engines, but we're lucky they're happening at all, I suppose. I'd be pinching pennies right now if I could get away with dropping a 12 valve in the thing.

What the XL is showing us is the magic of trimming. There's the ideal solution for fitting larger tires. Always has been, and always will be. Trim, and try not to fuck with anything else too much. The problem is, it's hard to style, and it looks good on some vehicles, and like ten kinds of ass on others.

I think they pulled it off. That flatbed model ought to be the official Power Wagon.

Cheers,

Kennith
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