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  #1  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:12 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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I've posted on here before about my lift issues. Tried RTE springs, tried OME HD 763 springs...

I'm sitting at 1.5" of lift in the rear right now with OME 763's, 2" spacers, D1 spring perches. With that setup I should be getting 4.5" of lift (2" spacer + 0.5" D1 perches + 2" spring) but I guess my rover is too fat

What I think I need is longer springs, and possibly in a heavier spring rate, but honestly I don't really know what I'm doing.

The OME's are 16.5" tall and 360 lbf/in spring rate.

I'm thinking of ordering custom springs from http://coilsprings.com
Something like 20" tall and similar spring rate, so I can get rid of the 2" spacer and be at around 3.5" of lift to match the front.

Does this make any sense?

I want to optimize for off-road handling and flex
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:44 PM
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K-rover K-rover is online now
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763's are 360 lb/ft Thats a lot. not sure if there are any other Rover springs that have a higher rate?
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:53 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-rover View Post
763's are 360 lb/ft Thats a lot. not sure if there are any other Rover springs that have a higher rate?
I've looked high and wide. Can't find anything. Looked at D1, D90, rrc springs as well. Terrafirma HD's have the same specs as OME

I think it's more important to get a longer spring, than to increase the rate.. it's already pretty stiff. The RTE spring was 0.75" longer, which was nice, but it was softer & progressive - a linear would suit me better. And I swear the RTE sagged but who knows - the OME appears to have done the same thing.

I have a fair bit of weight, but I bet a lot of people have similar setup so I have a hard time believing I'm the first one to have this problem... but here I am
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:47 AM
robertf robertf is offline
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whats the spring length installed?

Its not as easy as adding more turns to the same pitch and diameter. That just softens the spring rate and you end up with less travel and similar ride height.

OME 763 is likely closer to 310 lb/in if their dimension specs are correct.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:16 AM
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Tugela Tugela is online now
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Would it not be easier to put your Rover on a diet? I'm sure you have your reasons for configuring your truck the way you have, but it seems like it would be cheaper, simpler, and safer to remove weight rather than to add more spring.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:18 AM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
whats the spring length installed?

Its not as easy as adding more turns to the same pitch and diameter. That just softens the spring rate and you end up with less travel and similar ride height.

OME 763 is likely closer to 310 lb/in if their dimension specs are correct.
11". So they're compressed 5.54". The coils are pretty tight and I fear of them binding. 2" pucks don't help either. But without the pucks I'd be below stock height

I see what you're saying about the spring rate changing, but isn't that really up to the coilsprings.com to figure out? I'll say, hey, I want a 20" spring with xx OD, xx ID, and xx spring rate - they'll figure out the rest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
Would it not be easier to put your Rover on a diet? I'm sure you have your reasons for configuring your truck the way you have, but it seems like it would be cheaper, simpler, and safer to remove weight rather than to add more spring.
Totally agree. I do what I can. For example... I dropped cast iron in favor of regular pots/pans recently, but the gains are minimal compared to my heavy hitters that I can't really downsize from - listed below. A lot of people have this same stuff so I'm kind of at a loss for why Im struggling so bad. I feel like I am 300+ pounds overweight on my current springs, at least

Over the rear axle:
  • Greg Davis bumper ~80-100 lbs
  • custom swingaway ~40 lbs
  • 45L water tank. 96 lbs
  • Alloy rack. 80 lbs (thank god I traded in the BajaRack for a Frontrunner)
  • Steel sliders. ~80 lbs?
  • Fridge/slide ~70 pounds
  • hilift
  • spare parts ~30 lbs
  • Camping gear and tools. Who knows... 100 lbs?
  • Rear seats deleted.. saves me 80 lbs
  • alloy gas tank skid ~30 lbs
  • 1 gal motor oil, 1 gal trans fluid, 2 gal distilled water, quart gear oil, gal of white gas, pint brake fluid, pint p/s fluid... etc
  • 24+ cans of beer!
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2018, 09:33 AM
robertf robertf is offline
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You sure they are 763?

Helper spring may be the way to go

How are the body mounts?
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:15 AM
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It doesnt sound like you have that much stuff in the back. Something is off.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:54 AM
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fishEH fishEH is offline
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How are you arriving at the determination that you're at 1.5" of lift?
Got a profile pic of the truck?
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:21 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
You sure they are 763?

Helper spring may be the way to go

How are the body mounts?
Yes, tags are still on, 763X. Plus, I had the same issue with the RTE springs. RTE springs faired a bit better actually (they were also 0.75" taller). But I wasn't running spacers then, so my rear was at stock height.

How do helper springs work? I googled it and only really came across air suspensions

Body mounts look good to me. photos attached

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-rover View Post
It doesnt sound like you have that much stuff in the back. Something is off.
Any ideas for figuring out what that is?

When I installed both the RTE and OME coils, I used spring compressors pretty heavily. Lift was good immediately after install, but over 3-6 months it drops 2-3"


Attached current photos and body mounts
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0174.jpg (206.6 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0176.jpg (149.4 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0180.jpg (171.0 KB, 18 views)
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:22 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
How are you arriving at the determination that you're at 1.5" of lift?
Got a profile pic of the truck?
Just added a photo. Measuring center wheel hub to fender arch = 20.5" on both sides. Haven't cut arches. Stock height is 19". Looking to do 35s and lockers in the next year, so trying to get this sorted out
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:49 PM
Va_Disco Va_Disco is offline
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What kind of shocks are you running? I would think a high quality nitro charged shock could help lift a bit and take some load off the springs. Some even have spring assist.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:28 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Va_Disco View Post
What kind of shocks are you running? I would think a high quality nitro charged shock could help lift a bit and take some load off the springs. Some even have spring assist.
Terrafirma +3" adjustable shocks. Extended = 665mm, compressed = 410mm

They are currently sitting at 533mm eye-to-eye, installed in the truck, which means they are almost exactly 50% compressed. That's good right? So if I gain my desired 3" in new springs, then the shocks will be 80% extended at normal height... which means I probably need longer shocks again? Especially with the rear panhard conversion on my todo list?

coilsprings.com has quoted $400 and 4-5 week production time. They need an OEM or aftermarket spring for "Engineering
calibration and evaluation, The Checking Load @ Checking Load Height data is not included."

So I'm thinking of sending them a used OEM spring off eBay for $40 bucks.
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  #14  
Old 11-08-2018, 04:46 PM
Va_Disco Va_Disco is offline
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I don't know much about the Terrafirma adjustable shocks. I know some of the Higher end Nitro Charged (like OME) are supposed to actually pick the truck up reducing the load on the spring, verses just being a damper like a standard shock. Perhaps someone running them can chime in on that.


If your looking for a upgraded spring from the HD lift springs you currently have. Wouldn't they want the HD Lift spring so they can make adjustments to that spring rate and coil design. I don't see what the OEM spring has to do with your application.
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1999 Disco D1
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2018, 04:48 PM
proper4wd proper4wd is offline
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i think that all of your gear weighs a lot more than you think it does. that thing is squatted hard.

people have been building fat overweight discos for 20 years now it makes no sense that you need a custom spring for this.
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2018, 04:53 PM
Va_Disco Va_Disco is offline
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Easy way to figure the actual weight would be to put the truck on a scale and get a real weight for the loaded truck. Also do you keep it loaded down with gear all the time? because with your prior stated 3-6 month sag happening on two different sets of springs, I wonder if your not just over loading the spring to the point of premature failure.
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1997 Disco D1 (gone and missed)
1999 Disco D1
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2018, 05:44 PM
robertf robertf is offline
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ARB says 7.8 coils. I count 7. You got a set of calipers to check the spring wire diameter?
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2018, 06:01 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Va_Disco View Post
I don't know much about the Terrafirma adjustable shocks. I know some of the Higher end Nitro Charged (like OME) are supposed to actually pick the truck up reducing the load on the spring, verses just being a damper like a standard shock. Perhaps someone running them can chime in on that.


If your looking for a upgraded spring from the HD lift springs you currently have. Wouldn't they want the HD Lift spring so they can make adjustments to that spring rate and coil design. I don't see what the OEM spring has to do with your application.
My thoughts as well... waiting to hear from them. Probably best if I drop-ship a pair of 763's to them and try to resell them

Quote:
Originally Posted by proper4wd View Post
i think that all of your gear weighs a lot more than you think it does. that thing is squatted hard.

people have been building fat overweight discos for 20 years now it makes no sense that you need a custom spring for this.
Well the rear has at least 800 pounds of gear/mods, and the springs are rated for 480 pounds of additional gear. I agree that I can't be the only one who has done this.. so what are people doing then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Va_Disco View Post
Easy way to figure the actual weight would be to put the truck on a scale and get a real weight for the loaded truck. Also do you keep it loaded down with gear all the time? because with your prior stated 3-6 month sag happening on two different sets of springs, I wonder if your not just over loading the spring to the point of premature failure.
I could go to the dump and weigh it tomorrow... but it's not rocket science to add up all the weights

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
ARB says 7.8 coils. I count 7. You got a set of calipers to check the spring wire diameter?
18mm. There's another coil hidden under the upper spring perch. What are you thinking?
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2018, 06:47 PM
robertf robertf is offline
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Weigh it.
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2018, 06:59 PM
Swedjen2 Swedjen2 is offline
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Bill Davis at GBR Utah is your friend. So is his website.
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  #21  
Old 11-08-2018, 09:58 PM
p m p m is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Blake View Post
Over the rear axle:
  • Greg Davis bumper ~80-100 lbs
  • custom swingaway ~40 lbs
  • 45L water tank. 96 lbs
  • Alloy rack. 80 lbs (thank god I traded in the BajaRack for a Frontrunner)
  • Steel sliders. ~80 lbs?
  • Fridge/slide ~70 pounds
  • hilift
  • spare parts ~30 lbs
  • Camping gear and tools. Who knows... 100 lbs?
  • Rear seats deleted.. saves me 80 lbs
  • alloy gas tank skid ~30 lbs
  • 1 gal motor oil, 1 gal trans fluid, 2 gal distilled water, quart gear oil, gal of white gas, pint brake fluid, pint p/s fluid... etc
  • 24+ cans of beer!
That brings up a different subject - weight distribution. I was able to tell if a 50-lb bag of snow chains was in the rear or on the floor of front passenger seat; ever since I try to move as much gear as I can towards the center of the wheelbase.

Found it is a lot easier in a LWB Classic than in a D1/D2, but the same concept holds.
Are you driving the truck with full-sized rear passengers a lot?
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:19 PM
Jeff Blake Jeff Blake is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p m View Post
That brings up a different subject - weight distribution. I was able to tell if a 50-lb bag of snow chains was in the rear or on the floor of front passenger seat; ever since I try to move as much gear as I can towards the center of the wheelbase.

Found it is a lot easier in a LWB Classic than in a D1/D2, but the same concept holds.
Are you driving the truck with full-sized rear passengers a lot?
Yeah I move my tools and various heavy bits to under the passenger footwell when I go out alone. Other than the water tank on the roof, I feel like my weight is pretty well distributed.

I've removed the three rear seats, so no passengers. Those seats must have weighed 80-100 pounds, so that's nice.... but not enough

According to my simple calculations, I have a rear corner weight of 2,000 lbs, which is insane, and can't be right.
16.54" spring length
11" installed
5.54" x 360 (spring rate) = 1,994 pounds

But immediately after installing the OME's, and for a couple of months, I was at a good 3" lift (2.5" more than what I have now)... so 1,094 corner weight.

I think I'm going to give the Terrafirma HD springs a quick go. I need a spare set of springs anyway if I am to get these custom ones made. The specs say the spring rate is a variable 297-447 lbs, and I believe the same length as the OME. I'll try them with 2" spacers
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:42 PM
p m p m is online now
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IMHO, a water tank does not belong on the roof rack, neither do jerry cans. But you pick your truck's handling battles.

To give you an idea, this is how I stashed about 120 lb of spares and tools in a LWB Classic; the seats were taken out for a trip, and I had a perfectly flat floor from the backs of the front seats to tailgate.
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  #24  
Old 11-09-2018, 08:03 AM
Va_Disco Va_Disco is offline
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[QUOTE=Jeff Blake;

But immediately after installing the OME's, and for a couple of months, I was at a good 3" lift (2.5" more than what I have now)... so 1,094 corner weight.

I think I'm going to give the Terrafirma HD springs a quick go. I need a spare set of springs anyway if I am to get these custom ones made. The specs say the spring rate is a variable 297-447 lbs, and I believe the same length as the OME. I'll try them with 2" spacers[/QUOTE]



If your over loaded all the time, A newly installed set of springs would preform flawlessly for a short period of time. They are designed to handle a permanent extra load of whatever the spring is rated for but will also handle additional weight for periods of time (say a week trip) but they are not designed to permanently stay over loaded. The springs will fatigue and drop and could even develop a memory so that they don't level out if you unload the vehicle.


Don't buy another set of TF springs to try and fix this problem.


1st step weigh the truck
2nd figure out what your weight distribution is based on the real weight of the truck.


after that you can figure out a plan to fix the problem.
when you weigh the truck do the front then the whole truck and then the rear. it wont be scientific but it will give you a very weight read out to start working with.
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1997 Disco D1 (gone and missed)
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  #25  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:22 AM
proper4wd proper4wd is offline
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i bet your corner weight is absolutely 2000 pounds. plus about ~1500 on each front corner for a total gross approaching 7000. this is about what a built out, overloaded disco weighs.
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