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  #451  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:55 PM
discostew discostew is offline
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I have to believe the bottom of the Defender will look a lot like the underside of your wifes LR4. I think it will be built in that platform. Maybe, hopefully with some modifications. I really really hope it's a steel sprung truck.
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  #452  
Old 04-11-2018, 10:17 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Originally Posted by p m View Post
No it isn't.
Anyone with a little bit of reasoning can look at the vehicle and ponder: if I were to drive over a mudhole or a puddle full of branches that previous unlucky SOBs tossed under their wheels, what can get snagged and ripped off?

In case of a Defender - the answer is none.
In case of a Range Rover Classic or Disco 1, the answer is - ABS cable, maybe. Brake hose will crack anything short of a log good for a cabin builder. Who gives a flying fuck?

When I look at the underside of my wife's LR4, I shudder. No matter what I do to it, no matter what lifehack workarounds I find, it is terrifying. Not because an ABS cable or brake pads wear sensor cable can be snagged, but because it can completely, entirely, disable a vehicle.

That's beside the point that in a Defender or Range Rover Classic or Disco 1 there are 2 CV joints, protected against everything including a landmine. There are 8 CV joints in an LR3/4/5, protected against elements by 1/16" of rubber.
And, amazingly, all this IFS/IRS trickery does not even exempt you from driveshaft failures!!! Driveshafts that see no movement unchecked by engine/transmission/differential mounts!

Now, sorry that I had to edit it multiple times, but here's another thing to ponder.
Picture a wheel that has to come up 4" over a football-sized rock. With the axle width to the tune of 6 feet, and radius arms about 50" long, the rubber bushings have to accommodate the angle between 3 and 5 degrees, give or take. With IFS/IRS, and arms being about 20" long, the same wheel displacement translates into 11 degrees. It doesn't take a degree of rocket science to know that the bushings will not last that long. My personal case in point: LR4's front suspension bushings had to be replaced at around 40 kmi. My D1's radius arms bushings had to be replaced well after 200 kmi.

There you have it. No make/model/year is exempt from it. An LR3/4/5 will never be a Defender, and the new Defender built on LR3/4/5 platform will never be the beat-up junk that was driven in Camel Trophy or across Darien Gap.

This is not to say I have a beef with the progress. I love my LR4 even when it leaves me stranded within a $1000 tow bill from the nearest place that can fix it.
What you say is true. That said, there are some seriously tough independent suspension systems out there, and I know darn well you've seen and likely driven them in your life.

Obviously, I doubt they'll use anything like that, preferring instead to just keep to the platform, but we don't even know what the thing is going to look like at this point.

I can't judge it based on suspension I haven't seen. All I can do is say that independent suspension is not immediately an issue. It's simply a probable issue.

Personally, I like the tracking stability it offers at higher speeds on rough terrain, but not all are equal. Most of the good stuff is found underneath heavy equipment, off-road transportation, racing-specific builds, and military vehicles.

I don't think Land Rover's current system is too bad, though. For what it's under and the price they charge, as well as the performance, it's pretty difficult to beat in the consumer utility market.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #453  
Old 04-11-2018, 10:25 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Originally Posted by discostew View Post
This car company is so small and slow to bring stuff to market that companies could see the thing and build it first.
Strange how Land Rover is worried about copy-cats when their entire business survived on two vehicles that were precisely that. I don't believe they're as worried about the Chinese market as they claim.

I think they're full of shit, and I also think they just can't manage to put a stamp on styling; partially because it's going to take one hell of a leap of faith.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #454  
Old 04-11-2018, 10:46 PM
p m p m is offline
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What you say is true. That said, there are some seriously tough independent suspension systems out there, and I know darn well you've seen and likely driven them in your life.
Unless Twin Traction Beam is your idea of a pinnacle of reliability, I assume you mean Humvees?
That's a royal POS.
I haven't seen it personally, only heard about it - there used to be an H1 owners club in San Diego. Any time they set out on a trip to the desert, they'd have along a box of spare CV joints.

You should see a convoy of H1s on the move. Looks gnarly, until you notice that every wheel is pointing its own way.
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  #455  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:22 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Unless Twin Traction Beam is your idea of a pinnacle of reliability, I assume you mean Humvees?
That's a royal POS.
I haven't seen it personally, only heard about it - there used to be an H1 owners club in San Diego. Any time they set out on a trip to the desert, they'd have along a box of spare CV joints.

You should see a convoy of H1s on the move. Looks gnarly, until you notice that every wheel is pointing its own way.
No no no... Not a HMMWV. I don't like those at all, and I've been in my share of convoys.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #456  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:23 PM
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pinkytoe69 pinkytoe69 is offline
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Finally saw one up-close today (at the same Byerlys I was tricked by the sport no less...).

The sloped front isn't great, but it's more unique and "Disco-y" than it looks in photos.

It's like those chicks who are pretty meh in pictures, but actually quite bangable in person
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  #457  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:21 PM
kennith kennith is offline
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Finally saw one up-close today (at the same Byerlys I was tricked by the sport no less...).

The sloped front isn't great, but it's more unique and "Disco-y" than it looks in photos.

It's like those chicks who are pretty meh in pictures, but actually quite bangable in person
Yup. I came upon one the other day, and it had me rather confused. I wasn't entirely sure what I was seeing.

Some vehicles just aren't photogenic. It looked like it would be a decent runabout, but so is an Outback; and it's a lot cheaper. The same goes for the Velar and Evoque, which leaves the Discovery as a primary utility vehicle.

That's a fair chunk of change for such a thing, when it doesn't really have as much personality or practicality as something like an LR4, or even older Discovery models.

Doesn't look near as "Ford" in person, though. It certainly looks as expensive as it is. Perhaps if the interior was a touch more unique.

Even if I would consider one, by the time you put anything on it you're tickling Range Rover prices; and I'm not seeing the value beyond overall vehicle quality and trim, which can, again, be had from Subaru at almost half the price; and both are darn decent off pavement.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #458  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:57 PM
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jymmiejamz jymmiejamz is offline
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Originally Posted by kennith View Post

Even if I would consider one, by the time you put anything on it you're tickling Range Rover prices
It is definitely expensive, but not Range Rover expensive. I barely see any come through under $100k.
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  #459  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:26 PM
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mgreenspan mgreenspan is online now
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Doesn't look near as "Ford" in person, though.
Unfortunately, the Ford Explorer looks better. It's more balanced and significantly less lopsided. The few that I've seen with smaller rims and bigger tires actually look like they might not get shredded by a fire road.
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  #460  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:40 AM
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garrett garrett is offline
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Unfortunately, the Ford Explorer looks better. It's more balanced and significantly less lopsided. The few that I've seen with smaller rims and bigger tires actually look like they might not get shredded by a fire road.
I work at the State Depts Driver Training Unit facility and they have been "testing" the Explorer quite a bit, along with several other vehicles. But they have been quite reliable.

They are looking for replacements for the 3/4 ton Suburban as that been their mainstay for a long time and is no longer available. The Explorer won't be filling the void, but they tend to use quite a variety for different applications.
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