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Old 12-18-2017, 12:01 AM   #6226
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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And finally, I completely disagree with your assertion that Trump supporters spew as much hate & vitriol as his detractors. Of course there are radical right wingers that are truly dregs of society but I think that overall the majority of "Republicans" handled themselves much better during the past Democratic administration than we are seeing with the situation today. I frankly think the country is overrun by spoiled fucking brats and true idiots that don't contribute one bit to our society.
Ummm....




And Donald himself...

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Old 12-18-2017, 03:49 AM   #6227
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

Well, I'm fed up with it all. The end.

I don't give a rat's ass anymore. The media is lost, and the people are nearly beyond salvation.

My time ended with the death of reason. Now I will be content to watch and enjoy the foolishness for what it is. If it begins to affect my everyday life beyond a certain point, I'm gone.

I'll take my money where it's worth much more and live even better; watching it all fall down in comfort.

Hell... At least I'm alive to see it all crumble to dust.

The rabble will either save itself or drag this nation into the pits they've dug for themselves. I refuse to participate any longer. One can only whisper into a hurricane for so long.

Cheers,

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Old 12-18-2017, 07:40 AM   #6228
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

Come on Kenny. I know I'm gonna be sorry I asked but I have to.

What the hell are you talking about?
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:15 AM   #6229
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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Yes, however, we are correlating two separate polls with two separate methodologies with different sample selections and weight. You can't just compare both even though one had 7 million more Obama leaning participates being polled. You must compare apples and apples. I can't see how you don't see this Ray. Again, it's probability. Polling is conducted at Gallop randomly calling 65% cell phones and 35% land lines.
I don't think you know how this works.

Gallup polls people using the same basic methodology over time, that's how you can compare approval ratings.

The polls don't have more left leaning people in them-the country did.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:23 AM   #6230
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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I don't know about the "elected 15 years too early" stuff. No way to really comment on it since we don't predict the future. I personally think America was exactly ready for a black president, which is why he was elected at the time he was. I remember thinking that although it doesn't look I particularly agree with his positions, at least we've finally broken through the barrier of white vs. black and the country will be better off because of it. Unfortunately I was wrong about that one.
I don't know that I 100% agree with the sentiment about it being too early either, but it struck me when the CoS related it-since things are binary it is hard to say if it is totally accurate but given the tone/tenor of things it is also hard to ignore that it may be a significant contributor too.

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Regarding foreign policy, I disagree. Sure, all we read about is how the rest of the world hates us now that the evil and stupid Trump maniac racist sexist pervert abuser is in office. But I think that's a combination of 1) the truth and 2) media spin to cater to the consumer. As far as the truth portion goes, I think it's very similar to children hating to take their medicine. Some things gotta change if we want to increase our American perspective of prosperity and a lot of people aren't going to like it. I'll freely admit that Trump is pretty damn clumsy on how he's handled a lot of things thus far but I take that with a grain of salt and a bit of a smile...he's not a polished politician and that's one of his greatest attributes. He sure sounds like a moron a lot of the time but I don't necessarily want him in there being all slick Willy with the proper talking points at every corner.

And finally, I completely disagree with your assertion that Trump supporters spew as much hate & vitriol as his detractors. Of course there are radical right wingers that are truly dregs of society but I think that overall the majority of "Republicans" handled themselves much better during the past Democratic administration than we are seeing with the situation today. I frankly think the country is overrun by spoiled fucking brats and true idiots that don't contribute one bit to our society.

One more note....I didn't necessarily mean to use the term "emasculated" as defined by reduction or removal of one's masculinity. I really meant it in the sense to weaken or degrade something. But its double meaning RE masculinity does make it a perfect term for what we're seeing.
On the world opinion stuff, I don't mean that people like/hate us more (though for the most part they liked us more then than now. I mean explicitly that our stature has fallen. Our influence means less. The world order that we created is degrading (and we're doing some of the degradation).

We will def have to disagree about conduct of folks on respective sides. I think it is safer to say that both sides have zealots but as others have posted since you replied here the right hasn't acquitted itself any better than the left did.

I actually concur with your notion about the emasculation of the country; but I think I ascribe less political leaning to it and say that both sides have a lot of emasculated folks populating it. How we got there is an interesting discussion.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:36 AM   #6231
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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I don't think you know how this works.

Gallup polls people using the same basic methodology over time, that's how you can compare approval ratings.

The polls don't have more left leaning people in them-the country did.
While I defiantly see your point I'm just not sure it's the best methodology when taking into consideration the probability of who's being polled.

Let me ask you this. Why does Gallop oversample? Would it be correct to say those 7 million Obama voters would skew the results one way?

Is there a difference between a Democrat and Obama voter? I would argue yes.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:05 AM   #6232
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Ummm....




And Donald himself...

Scott,

You post stuff like this where it offers no facts at all and aimed to agitate. I could easily post up the video of the Trump supporter getting his hat stolen and beat senseless until the point he almost loses consciousness. Yet I'm the bad guy with no facts?

again, holier than thou.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:19 AM   #6233
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

Moving in the right direction. Hopefully for the sake of the country the tend will continue.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/econ...bc-survey.html
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:29 AM   #6234
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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While I defiantly see your point I'm just not sure it's the best methodology when taking into consideration the probability of who's being polled.

Let me ask you this. Why does Gallop oversample? Would it be correct to say those 7 million Obama voters would skew the results one way?

Is there a difference between a Democrat and Obama voter? I would argue yes.
It stands to reason the 7M people are illustrative that the population feels a given way, and correlates to a difference in polling results. They could be a Dem, they could have just voted for him-either way he resonated more in 08 and 12 than either candidate did in 16. That is reflected in the numbers of people that voted, and thus also represented in polling

Which is exactly the point.

To your article on economic optimism; it is interesting to see that happen and finally start to drag his approval numbers up into the 40's.

What I'd be concerned about is this aspect of the article:
The survey found that 42 percent of Americans expect their wages to rise in the next year, and 41 percent of homeowners see their home values going up, the highest level recorded since 2007. In 2011, while the country remained in an economic funk from the financial crisis, just 15 percent of homeowners thought their home prices would rise.

People are fickle...what happens if wages don't rise? Or housing prices stagnate.

Going back to our discussion that we're due for a correction; it is inarguable that the economy is doing well right now (a trend line that most have noted started before the election-but credit is given to POTUS for it continuing, as this poll reflects). Is it in a bubble though?

Best evidence of that (aside from all the economists, investment bankers, and others noting such things): bitcoin.

The economy could be the wave to ride into the midterms to sidestep everything else-or it could crash over the GOP's head depending on how it actually impacts the delta between rising expectations and what is actually felt. Given history as our guide, I'd be worried we'll stumble.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:51 AM   #6235
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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To your article on economic optimism; it is interesting to see that happen and finally start to drag his approval numbers up into the 40's.
I'm optimistic, in 40 years Ford would be only other president on this level if the polling is correct.

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What I'd be concerned about is this aspect of the article:
The survey found that 42 percent of Americans expect their wages to rise in the next year, and 41 percent of homeowners see their home values going up, the highest level recorded since 2007. In 2011, while the country remained in an economic funk from the financial crisis, just 15 percent of homeowners thought their home prices would rise.


I'm not concerned about home values for the time being. There is an inventory shortage right now in the housing market nationwide.

On the same note I want to retract my comment about recessions being every 7-10 years like clockwork, this is simply not true and I overstated it. It is of my opinion the next recession may be a 10-16 year cycle. My gut tells me due to the sheer size of the last recession (like we haven't seen since the Great Depression) and slow economic growth following, the recession cycle may be extended.


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People are fickle...
Indeed, this is why I don't put much emphasis on polls.

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Going back to our discussion that we're due for a correction; it is inarguable that the economy is doing well right now (a trend line that most have noted started before the election-but credit is given to POTUS for it continuing, as this poll reflects). Is it in a bubble though?
Ray, I personally think they are all bubbles. What matters is the size of the bubble.

More news, GDP Growth view, 4.0%

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KBN1E9292?il=0
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:34 PM   #6236
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

I don't think bitcoin is an indicator of a bubble as much as it is an indicator of lack of faith in banks and government backed monetary systems. Ref bitcoin surge when cypriotic banks were on the verge of collapse.


Bitcoin solves a very specific set of problems and will hold value beyond end growth in 2040,
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:16 PM   #6237
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

Back to the worrisome state that Trump & Co. keep denigrating the rule of law...

Fox claiming a coup is happening...

Trump attorneys saying that .gov emails couldn't be turned over to Mueller's investigation because they were "private property"...

Rosenstein is under fire for not reining in Mueller - ie, not investigate Trump - with overtones of the Saturday Night Massacre...

Oh, and Trump appoints people to lifetime federal judgeships who don't know the basics about law...

That is what is so dangerous about Trump - he doesn't believe the rules (law) apply to him (See: pussy grabbing statement - "I can do what I want"), that he can govern by fiat and that if he doesn't get his way..."You're fired" So he packs his administration (and the judiciary) with cowardly Yes Men.

That's a dictatorship, not a representative democracy.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:55 PM   #6238
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

Dictatorship. Lol.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:26 PM   #6239
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

A war was won under the Dictatorship, thanks to our Brave men and woman. Appears everyone was more concerned with the shit show in Alabama.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...es-no-one-care
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:43 PM   #6240
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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A war was won under the Dictatorship, thanks to our Brave men and woman. Appears everyone was more concerned with the shit show in Alabama.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...es-no-one-care
A war was won. That is rich. I remember when we defeated AQI, aka ISIS, but the underlying conditions remained the same so it came back.

Care to quantify how that is different now? (It isn't, and nobody that actually fights wars believes the war is won, we just had some tactical success but the conditions remain.). Please see SecDef comments on the matter...
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:05 PM   #6241
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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A war was won. That is rich. I remember when we defeated AQI, aka ISIS, but the underlying conditions remained the same so it came back.

Care to quantify how that is different now? (It isn't, and nobody that actually fights wars believes the war is won, we just had some tactical success but the conditions remain.). Please see SecDef comments on the matter...
Guess all the fake media had it wrong, sorry Ray.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/is...-ended-n828041

To quantify, according to the news it appears Isis no longer has any strongholds in Iraq. Iraq seems to think this qualifies as a victory. Whether it will come back only time will tell. Does that diminish a statement about defeating ISIS or winning a war as so many news articles have pointed out?
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:30 PM   #6242
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Guess all the fake media had it wrong, sorry Ray.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/is...-ended-n828041

To quantify, according to the news it appears Isis no longer has any strongholds in Iraq. Iraq seems to think this qualifies as a victory. Whether it will come back only time will tell. Does that diminish a statement about defeating ISIS or winning a war as so many news articles have pointed out?
I'll put my money on Mattis.

"Despite these successes our fight is not over," Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said last month. "Even without a physical caliphate, ISIS remains a threat to stability in the recently liberated areas, as well as in our homelands."

And you do remember "Mission Accomplished" right? Or were you too young to remember that?
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:36 PM   #6243
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Default Re: Donald Trump Rally in Colorado Springs

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I'll put my money on Mattis.

"Despite these successes our fight is not over," Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said last month. "Even without a physical caliphate, ISIS remains a threat to stability in the recently liberated areas, as well as in our homelands."

And you do remember "Mission Accomplished" right? Or were you too young to remember that?
You'll put your money on whoever/whatever is anti-Trump. We know this Scott. Predictable is putting it lightly.
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:45 PM   #6244
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You'll put your money on whoever/whatever is anti-Trump. We know this Scott. Predictable is putting it lightly.
I'll put my money on those who use facts and not opinions and ideology to make rational decisions that are in the country's best interests. If those folks are "anti-Trump," so be it.

(Edit: You know people like James Baker, Leon Panetta, Susan Rice, James Clapper, Gen Michael Hayden, Adm. Michael Mullen, etc.)

And funny how you say that Mattis is anti-Trump. Isn't he Trump's SecDef? or is he Deep State?

or a holdover like Rosenstein? or half of EPA, Dept of Interior, the CDC. You know, those people that worked for Obama because they were career professionals. And, even though reappointed by Trump aren't truly loyal to the Orange King.
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:54 PM   #6245
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I'll put my money on those who use facts and not opinions and ideology to make rational decisions that are in the country's best interests. If those folks are "anti-Trump," so be it.

And funny how you say that Mattis is anti-Trump. Isn't he Trump's SecDef? or is he Deep State?

or a holdover like Rosenstein? You know, those people that worked for Obama because they were career professionals. And, even though reappointed by Trump aren't truly loyal to the Orange King.
I didn't say Mattis, I'm talking about all the anti-Trump dribble you post. If there was a good story on Trump you'd bring it up here? Guess I just proved my case.

Anti-Trump 'facts' only, right? Again, predictable and opinionated yourself.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:01 PM   #6246
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Come on Kenny. I know I'm gonna be sorry I asked but I have to.

What the hell are you talking about?
I don't know half the time.

Cheers,

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Old 12-18-2017, 06:27 PM   #6247
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Guess all the fake media had it wrong, sorry Ray.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/is...-ended-n828041

To quantify, according to the news it appears Isis no longer has any strongholds in Iraq. Iraq seems to think this qualifies as a victory. Whether it will come back only time will tell. Does that diminish a statement about defeating ISIS or winning a war as so many news articles have pointed out?
Shia Iraqis declaring victory over Sunni ISIS is illustrative of a tactical victory (not winning a war on an idea). Here's the kicker-the strategy to leverage Iraqi and Syrian proxies to take back the terrain; whose was that? (Hint: not the current admin, they just let the DoD & others continue doing what we were doing).

But to say we have won a war is as wrong as Mission Accomplished or leaving Iraq during the Obama admin.

See it how you want, Scott already posted how the SecDef views it. The idea is far from defeated-or how about this; if we won good news right? No need for a travel ban, bc ISIS is defeated!

This is just trying to quality a success as more than it is.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #6248
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Tax plan related, specifically the ACA tax repeal.

From a WSJ article, "Both Ms. Dahl, 34, and her husband, Rich Higdon, who is a musician and a potter, rely on the ACA exchange for a heavily subsidized health-insurance plan. They pay $12 a month for a silver-level plan that covers both of them. With an income of about $41,000 a year, Ms. Dahl says the ACA has made them both confident that they could survive as self-employed artists."

The fact that an individual depends on subsidized health-insurance in order to survive as a self-employed artist is exactly what was wrong with the ACA. I get being uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions and exorbitant costs; however, choosing to do what you want on other folks dime is laughable. This is exactly why so many people were against it. It doesn't solve the problem it is intended to solve. I'm all for people living the life they want, but they should be doing that on their own dime. Not everybody else's.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:22 AM   #6249
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I didn't say Mattis,
The whole point of that exchange was based on me saying I'll put my money on Mattis.

I think my new hobby will be to point out how you make blanket statements without facts, then try to say you never said it.

I've got vacation coming up...might dig back to those statements about disk drives and Wasserman's IT guy having all the dirt on the Deep State.

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I'll put my money on Mattis.
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You'll put your money on whoever/whatever is anti-Trump. We know this Scott. Predictable is putting it lightly.
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I'll put my money on those who use facts and not opinions and ideology to make rational decisions that are in the country's best interests. If those folks are "anti-Trump," so be it.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:39 AM   #6250
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The whole point of that exchange was based on me saying I'll put my money on Mattis.

I think my new hobby will be to point out how you make blanket statements without facts, then try to say you never said it.

I've got vacation coming up...might dig back to those statements about disk drives and Wasserman's IT guy having all the dirt on the Deep State.
Again, Mattis is right. Go back on here and see where I've posted about the middle east fighting for thousands of years.

The whole point is that you will post up and regurgitate anything at all that you deem bad for president Trump. If a potentially good article comes out (Iraqis feel they've won a war, or, liberated strongholds in Iraq) you immediately diminish it. You're not fooling anyone Scott.

If you think we've heard the last from Imran Awan I'd think again. You really want to put all your eggs in that basket Scott?

https://www.factdc.org/single-post/2...serman-Schultz
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