Coolant frozen

[DougG]

I bought a 2004 Discovery with 75000 miles on it at the end of October. Had no problems with it until this morning. Last night it was 0deg F. I started the car this morning no problems. I drove about 1/4 of a mile to the local pharmacy. When I got in the parking light and parked, the truck was still running and I noticed that the temp gauge needle hadn't moved from it's coldest reading and the high temp light was on. I shut the truck down, went into the pharmacy and got back into the truck. Tried to start it, but it would not start. It would crank, but not start. The temp needle would occasionally go up to the max point, and the high temp light would come on, but the truck would only crank, and not start.

I popped the hood to check things out. I opened up the expansion tank cap, and the coolant was frozen. I squeezed the coolant hoses, and some only had air it them, and the others had slush, or semi-frozen coolant.

The head gasket job was done about a year ago by the previous owner at his local repair shop.

It is currently being towed to my mechanic.

Help please. Thanks.

 

[ptschram]

Probably gonna need another head job.

The exact same thing happened to me with my DI, exact same thing.

 

[flyfisher11]

Sorry to hear your troubles but it does bring to attention an item needed to be added to the preflight checklist on super cold days.

Pop hood open

Check coolant

etc...

Not being a smart ass. I'm actually going to add that to my list of things to check when the temp is that cold.

Best of luck!

 

[DougG]

Why would this happen? Was the first head job done improperly? Or is it something else?

 

[ptschram]

Why would this happen? Was the first head job done improperly? Or is it something else?

The concentration of anti-freeze in your coolant was not high enough to depress the freezing point (molal freezing point depression). As a result, the engine was not cooled and localized overheating occurred. It probably won't start due to exhaust valve guides falling from their homes holding valves open-that's what happened to mine.

 

[Quentin]

Brrrrr
It's nice living in SUNNY South Africa
It think you should be runing with 70% antifreeze to 30% water at those sorts of temps

 

[DougG]

The concentration of anti-freeze in your coolant was not high enough to depress the freezing point (molal freezing point depression). As a result, the engine was not cooled and localized overheating occurred. It probably won't start due to exhaust valve guides falling from their homes holding valves open-that's what happened to mine.

Did the repair place that did the head job, just top it off with water when the filled the engine back up? Is the repair place that did the head job responsible for this?

 

[ptschram]

Did the repair place that did the head job, just top it off with water when the filled the engine back up? Is the repair place that did the head job responsible for this?

How can you hold a shop who did work for a previous owner responsible for something that happened to you-and that was done about a year ago? No shop that I'm aware of extends warranty periods to subsequent owners of vehicles.

Did you ever think to check the freezing point of your coolant? I send my tech out regularly to check the coolant in every truck in the shop when the WX gets cold out.

These trucks should be having their coolant flushed regularly anyway, it is in the service schedule (it was in the older trucks, I'm sure it's somewhere in there for the newer as well).

You probably scrambled you engine on the coldest day of the year (so far). You learned an important lesson, check your coolant.

And Quentin, not all parts of RSA are warm, there are mountains with snow on them there as well.

 

[Quentin]

And Quentin, not all parts of RSA are warm, there are mountains with snow on them there as well.

That's true. We often travel to them to play in foreign terrian, but in general it's warm..... hot actually. 32 Deg C today

 

[DougG]

How can you hold a shop who did work for a previous owner responsible for something that happened to you-and that was done about a year ago? No shop that I'm aware of extends warranty periods to subsequent owners of vehicles.

Did you ever think to check the freezing point of your coolant? I send my tech out regularly to check the coolant in every truck in the shop when the WX gets cold out.

These trucks should be having their coolant flushed regularly anyway, it is in the service schedule (it was in the older trucks, I'm sure it's somewhere in there for the newer as well).

You probably scrambled you engine on the coldest day of the year (so far). You learned an important lesson, check your coolant.

And Quentin, not all parts of RSA are warm, there are mountains with snow on them there as well.

I'm sure that's your unbiased opinion. If the coolant mixture was done properly, it should not have froze. I've never owned a car that I had to check the coolant everytime I drove it in the winter. Land Rovers, or Audis. And I am very dilligent about maintenance. I bought the car based on the fact that the head gasket was done. If there was no documentation of it being done, I wouldn't have bought it. Since it was done, I expect that it should have been done properly. I should not have frozen coolant in my engine that had a head job a year ago, bottom line.

When you do a head job for a customer, do you flush the coolant and make sure that the mixture is proper? What would you say to that customer if he called you after the first sub-zero winter with frozen coolant? Would you say those are the breaks, you should have checked your coolant each time you got in the car?

 

[flyfisher11]

I would never assume anything with a used vehicle. I don't care who owned it or had what done to it. Whenever I pick up any used vehicle it gets all its fluids and lubricants changed out. This gives me a bottom line threshold and I know for a damned fact what is in there.

 

[ptschram]

I'm sure that's your unbiased opinion. If the coolant mixture was done properly, it should not have froze. I've never owned a car that I had to check the coolant everytime I drove it in the winter.

Had you ever checked the coolant in the truck?

When you do a head job for a customer, do you flush the coolant and make sure that the mixture is proper?

Damn straight Skippy! It's on the invoice as well. Usually two gallons of coolant appropriate for the vehicle.

What would you say to that customer if he called you after the first sub-zero winter with frozen coolant? Would you say those are the breaks, you should have checked your coolant each time you got in the car?

Under a year elapsed, and if it had been back for oil changes, it wouldn't have happened as it would have been checked and found to have been correct.

I think you're becoming defensive because you don't want to accept the personal responsibility for not having done anything to confirm the coolant was of the correct concentration to protect your engine.

The fact of the matter is, you bought a used truck, took the previous owner's word for everything being suitable and your oversight has now resulted in what will probably be a considerable expense for you.

Trust me, if one of my techs makes a mistake, or worse, I do, I go out of my way to regain that client's trust. I had a truck towed into the shop yesterday on my dime so we could fix something one of my techs overlooked, and I'll be bringing another one home next week on my dime-hoping the issue is something we weren't involved with.

 

[DougG]

Had you ever checked the coolant in the truck?






Damn straight Skippy! It's on the invoice as well. Usually two gallons of coolant appropriate for the vehicle.



Under a year elapsed, and if it had been back for oil changes, it wouldn't have happened as it would have been checked and found to have been correct.

I think you're becoming defensive because you don't want to accept the personal responsibility for not having done anything to confirm the coolant was of the correct concentration to protect your engine.

The fact of the matter is, you bought a used truck, took the previous owner's word for everything being suitable and your oversight has now resulted in what will probably be a considerable expense for you.

Trust me, if one of my techs makes a mistake, or worse, I do, I go out of my way to regain that client's trust. I had a truck towed into the shop yesterday on my dime so we could fix something one of my techs overlooked, and I'll be bringing another one home next week on my dime-hoping the issue is something we weren't involved with.

I checked the coolant in the truck two weeks ago when I did an oil change. The coolant was at the proper level, and looked good. I did not check the ratio of coolant to water.

So you're saying that the coolant mixture was not right. That is the only way that the coolant could have froze. If that is the case, then the mechanic did the job improperly. I wouldn't say that it was my negligence that caused this to happen.

When I bought the car, I checked the coolant level, and the color. I drove the car for the past two months and it never got hot. I periodically checked the levels. I've lived in upstate NY all my life, and this has never happened to any car I have owned. Something is not right. It'll be fixed no matter what, but the notion of it being my responsibility to check the coolant to water ratios after owning the car for two months is absurd.

 

[ptschram]

I checked the coolant in the truck two weeks ago when I did an oil change. The coolant was at the proper level, and looked good. I did not check the ratio of coolant to water.

So you're saying that the coolant mixture was not right. That is the only way that the coolant could have froze. If that is the case, then the mechanic did the job improperly. I wouldn't say that it was my negligence that caused this to happen.

When I bought the car, I checked the coolant level, and the color. I drove the car for the past two months and it never got hot. I periodically checked the levels. I've lived in upstate NY all my life, and this has never happened to any car I have owned. Something is not right. It'll be fixed no matter what, but the notion of it being my responsibility to check the coolant to water ratios after owning the car for two months is absurd.

Yet if you look a few posts up, you'll find where Flyfish says he regularly dumps all fluids and starts over when he gets a new vehicle.

I also suggest the same for anyone buying a new-to-them vehicle.

Checking for color and level only tell you the correct type of coolant is in the truck and that there is enough of it, not its concentration.

 

[Quentin]

Heck.
I bought my truck 2nd hand from a Private seller living 1000km away. I flew up to check it over and bought it on the spot. Even though I was assured that the Landy had just been serviced, I still asked him to take me down to the local spares shop and did a full fluilds change, plugs and filters.
Hehehe Had to use his drive way and the bloody oil filter slipped and did a 10m dash for freedom leaving a nice "snail trail" Oooops
Moral of the story, check everything yourself.

 

[ptschram]

From the owner's manual:

To
ensure that the anti-corrosion properties of the
coolant are retained, the anti-freeze content
should be checked once a year and completely
renewed every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or
24 months, whichever is the sooner. Failure to
do so may cause corrosion of the radiator and
engine components.

In an emergency - and only if no approved
anti-freeze is available - top-up the cooling
system with clean water, but be aware of the
resultant reduction in frost protection. DO NOT
top-up or refill with conventional anti-freeze
formulations. If in doubt consult a Land Rover
retailer.

 

[DougG]

From the owner's manual:

To
ensure that the anti-corrosion properties of the
coolant are retained, the anti-freeze content
should be checked once a year and completely
renewed every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or
24 months, whichever is the sooner. Failure to
do so may cause corrosion of the radiator and
engine components.

In an emergency - and only if no approved
anti-freeze is available - top-up the cooling
system with clean water, but be aware of the
resultant reduction in frost protection. DO NOT
top-up or refill with conventional anti-freeze
formulations. If in doubt consult a Land Rover
retailer.

If I bought a car from you, would I have to dump all the fluids when I brought it home?
I have to assume that this professional mechanic who did the job ONE year ago, put in the proper concentration of coolant according to the owners manual. Or the guy I bought it from kept topping it off with water.

 

[nosivad_bor]

1 years is a long time , so much time for the old owner to fuck it up.

it's your fault for not checking, end of story.

 

[ptschram]

Doug:
I didn't mean to demean you, your truck, or the guy who may or may not have done the head job. You asked for help and I suggested what I thought the problem was and the cause for it.

If you think I'm not sad for what has happened to you, your mistaken as I feel your pain as I HAVE BEEN IN THE EXACT SAME POSITION-albeit due to my own stupidity. But, the morale of the story is, it has happened to others, it happened to you, and it will happen to others as well in the future.

Every water-cooled vehicle on the road should have its coolant checked as winter approaches, not on the coldest day yet.

 

[Tugela]

After reading this thread I have decided that the next car I buy will be a 1970's VW Beetle. With an air-cooled engine I'll never have to worry about coolant ratios.