England Terror Killing Today

[RBBailey]

This photo alone says a lot about gun control.

The attack took place in the street with people watching and taking pictures instead of shooting the attackers with guns, they shoot with their cameras. The police took 20 minutes to get there. A woman officer took the two down. :bigok: And as this photo shows, people were still just standing around, apparently talking to and about the attackers while no one did anything because no one could do anything because no one had a gun -- except for the attackers, they had a gun.

:banghead:

There's no England anymore.

Let's talk... why did you do this? Let me understand you...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02570/woolwich-knife_2570492c.jpg

Let me take your photo...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02570/machete-guy_2570440c.jpg

 

[Devildog01]

I think they should ban meat cleavers and machetes in the UK.

 

[hilltoppersx]

http://www.britainfirst.org/news/br...th-east-london-by-men-screaming-allahu-akbar/

 

[p m]

I think they should ban meat cleavers and machetes in the UK.

Oh, they are banned already. So much for that.

 

[Drillbit]

The ban has always worked really well in all parts of the UK. Chop Chop Murphy

 

[RBBailey]

It appears that the populace has been properly de-balled by the lack of gun rights, meaning the lack of a legal right to take matters into your own hands when you see crap like this going on.

I still can't get over the lazy attitude people have who are just standing around while the killers are still there, walking by with nary a glance at the body, driving cars along the street as if it is a nuisance to have to drive around the body, all of this going on for 20 minutes before the police even show up.

But... there may still be a glimmer of hope for the British people: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...We-want-to-start-a-war-in-London-tonight.html

 

[varova87]

"If Jihadis think they can bring this terror to our streets and kill one of ours un-opposed then they’ve got another thought coming."

Um, apparently not, because they just did it.

 

[Paul Grant]

This photo alone says a lot about gun control.

The attack took place in the street with people watching and taking pictures instead of shooting the attackers with guns, they shoot with their cameras. The police took 20 minutes to get there. A woman officer took the two down. :bigok: And as this photo shows, people were still just standing around, apparently talking to and about the attackers while no one did anything because no one could do anything because no one had a gun -- except for the attackers, they had a gun.

:banghead:

There's no England anymore.

Let's talk... why did you do this? Let me understand you...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02570/woolwich-knife_2570492c.jpg

Let me take your photo...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02570/machete-guy_2570440c.jpg

So while we are dreaming of a return to the wild, wild west with gunfights on the streets and justice at the hands of a revolver I can't help but think of how a few people on the street with guns might have reacted.

Let's say I'm a Sikh, born and raised on the UK with a license to own and carry a handgun in this theoretical world of yours. Half way down the block is another licensed handgun owner (maybe he's the British version of Jason Richwine) carrying his weapon of choice. The event goes down and I pull my gun. Because I am in close proximity I am able to take out both killers. They are on the ground, feet from me, with me, holding my weapon out as I have been trained. Meanwhile, in that split second of mayhem, around the corner comes the second licensed handgun owner, weapon drawn, nerves on edge because he's heard only screams and multiple gun shots.

The picture I have in my mind is that this second gunman, rounding the corner as people scream and run away, draws a bead on the dark skinned man holding a gun, standing over multiple bodies. What are the chances this scenario takes a nasty turn? This is precisely why we don't live in a gun toting world where people, with almost no time to make an informed decision can make the wrong one and take an innocent life.

 

[brian4d]

So while we are dreaming of a return to the wild, wild west with gunfights on the streets and justice at the hands of a revolver I can't help but think of how a few people on the street with guns might have reacted.

Let's say I'm a Sikh, born and raised on the UK with a license to own and carry a handgun in this theoretical world of yours. Half way down the block is another licensed handgun owner (maybe he's the British version of Jason Richwine) carrying his weapon of choice. The event goes down and I pull my gun. Because I am in close proximity I am able to take out both killers. They are on the ground, feet from me, with me, holding my weapon out as I have been trained. Meanwhile, in that split second of mayhem, around the corner comes the second licensed handgun owner, weapon drawn, nerves on edge because he's heard only screams and multiple gun shots.

The picture I have in my mind is that this second gunman, rounding the corner as people scream and run away, draws a bead on the dark skinned man holding a gun, standing over multiple bodies. What are the chances this scenario takes a nasty turn? This is precisely why we don't live in a gun toting world where people, with almost no time to make an informed decision can make the wrong one and take an innocent life.

You just don't get it. It would take less than 5 seconds to take both these men out. No Hollywood here, no Bruce Willis talking it up for 5 minutes before you pull the trigger. If I saw this scene and saw two men beheading the man on the street I'd draw, shoot and holster my weapon. 10 seconds total to stop this brutal act.

 

[ukoffroad]

that same argument has been brought up in our discussions about guns and school. If I pull my weapon, shoot an intruder as the officer comes in, if he does not know me? Then what? I am all for arming folks if we can work out how to prevent getting shot in the process.

Guns would not have stopped those men from hitting him with their car.
Why did no one grab a bat or a 9 iron and jump in to help him?

I would have enjoyed chasing those two in the truck, blood washes right off.atriot:

 

[1920SF]

that same argument has been brought up in our discussions about guns and school. If I pull my weapon, shoot an intruder as the officer comes in, if he does not know me? Then what? I am all for arming folks if we can work out how to prevent getting shot in the process.

Guns would not have stopped those men from hitting him with their car.
Why did no one grab a bat or a 9 iron and jump in to help him?

I would have enjoyed chasing those two in the truck, blood washes right off.atriot:

Chuck-
I'd offer that if you take the responsibility of carrying and employing lethal force, you also take on the responsibility to know how to de-escalate a situation. Other than the split second you are engaging a threat with lethal force I'd suggest not brandishing a firearm-particularly when law enforcement may be making entry against what they believe to be an active shooter. There's a range of active and passive measures a responsible CCW holder could take to mitigate the chance of them being engaged as a follow on to an incident but all of that requires training and preparation.

Where I take issue is when people want to carry but aren't willing to take those steps; two things come to mind-stay unarmed with the rest of the sheep, or accept that someone might throw some rounds at you too if you are standing there like a jackass with an exposed weapon in an in-extremis situation.

Transitioning back to the story that started the thread; what's that they say about evil only needing (good) people to do nothing? In this case I'm not sure that the bystanders can reconcile with being good people...they are just people who let someone else die because they lack the fortitude to do something about it. The sheep moniker comes out there again.
r-
Ray

 

[ukoffroad]

Ray, I would be willing to accept that risk and complete whatever training it took to have a gun in my room here at school.

How people watched that and did nothing but film is beyond me. pick up something, get together and put an end to it. Maybe it is a cultural difference, I have friends from the UK but have not lived there.

 

[Paul Grant]

You just don't get it. It would take less than 5 seconds to take both these men out. No Hollywood here, no Bruce Willis talking it up for 5 minutes before you pull the trigger. If I saw this scene and saw two men beheading the man on the street I'd draw, shoot and holster my weapon. 10 seconds total to stop this brutal act.

Brian4d YOU DON'T GET IT and it's a shame. We've had our share of disagreements before and I am not going to replay them here. You obviously have a lot more time to waste than I. Do the rest of us a favor and buy a plot (and I do mean JUST a plot of land) at the Citadel in Idaho where you can live out your gun toting dreams with RB and the rest of you itchy trigger fingered types.

Say what you will because I know you have an abundance of time to post. You're probably getting Federal support (or maybe you're really just unemployed) in your business since you can afford to spend so much time here on the bulletin boards with your nonsense but I'm unsubscribing from this thread. I've made my point and I've made up my mind.

 

[kennith]

Brian4d YOU DON'T GET IT and it's a shame. We've had our share of disagreements before and I am not going to replay them here. You obviously have a lot more time to waste than I. Do the rest of us a favor and buy a plot (and I do mean JUST a plot of land) at the Citadel in Idaho where you can live out your gun toting dreams with RB and the rest of you itchy trigger fingered types.

Say what you will because I know you have an abundance of time to post. You're probably getting Federal support (or maybe you're really just unemployed) in your business since you can afford to spend so much time here on the bulletin boards with your nonsense but I'm unsubscribing from this thread. I've made my point and I've made up my mind.

You actually bother to subscribe to threads?

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[RBBailey]

So while we are dreaming of a return to the wild, wild west with gunfights on the streets and justice at the hands of a revolver I can't help but think of how a few people on the street with guns might have reacted.

Let's say I'm a Sikh, born and raised on the UK with a license to own and carry a handgun in this theoretical world of yours. Half way down the block is another licensed handgun owner (maybe he's the British version of Jason Richwine) carrying his weapon of choice. The event goes down and I pull my gun. Because I am in close proximity I am able to take out both killers. They are on the ground, feet from me, with me, holding my weapon out as I have been trained. Meanwhile, in that split second of mayhem, around the corner comes the second licensed handgun owner, weapon drawn, nerves on edge because he's heard only screams and multiple gun shots.

The picture I have in my mind is that this second gunman, rounding the corner as people scream and run away, draws a bead on the dark skinned man holding a gun, standing over multiple bodies. What are the chances this scenario takes a nasty turn? This is precisely why we don't live in a gun toting world where people, with almost no time to make an informed decision can make the wrong one and take an innocent life.

Ha! ...well, OK... I suppose you can make up several different plausible scenarios as to how something like this goes down. Although, it is virtually impossible to be a licensed gun carrying citizen in the UK, so you would have to take your scenario and transport it to a city in the U.S..

In the end, this type of thing does happen every day in this country, but the gun fights just don't seem to break out between legal owner/packer vs. legal owner/packer. Gun fights happen all the time between illegal owners though.

Add these up:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/12/u...-sales-of-guns-and-ammunition-surge.html?_r=0
http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html
I actually know someone who was in the same room when this happened, and she confirmed to me that it went down as the article states -- the shooter backed down and killed himself when he saw the gun owner confront him.

 

[Mike_Rupp]

This is precisely why we don't live in a gun toting world where people, with almost no time to make an informed decision can make the wrong one and take an innocent life.

I live in a gun toting state in the wild, wild west. Man, people are getting killed all the time by people who concealed carry. It's crazy.

 

[AMCM Disco]

He unsubscribed... don't confuse the unsubscribed with facts.

 

[mgreenspan]

You guys should get all the facts before you try to mentally piece together what happened and arm chair quarter back the people involved. The guys had a gun. What are unarmed people supposed to do about that. My understanding is they demanded to be filmed not people just started filming. A regular joe has no obligation to not give into a terrorists demands if his or her life is threatened.

The scene was confusing from eye witness accounts who initially thought it was just a man getting hit by a car. Several people thought when the men were hacking away that they were trying to help. Yes some people did nothing but that happens everywhere so get real. And unarmed police were on the scene early on but can't do anything with armed perpertrators(they had a revolver). So if you have to wait for armed police of course it will take a while.

Pople did do things. Several women covered the victims body with their own to stop them from doing more. Another woman scout leader talked with one of the men in an attempt to have him give up his weapons and calm the situation.

The whole thing is terrible but guns in the hands of the public would not have prevented it like you said. That should not be the focus of this issue.

 

[singingcamel]

"If Jihadis think they can bring this terror to our streets and kill one of ours un-opposed then they?ve got another thought coming."

Um, apparently not, because they just did it.

I just bought another 9mm .

 

[ukoffroad]

I had not seen the news today, I stand corrected on the pat about no one getting involved. One witness stated she saw a gun, but not mentioned anywhere else and not listed as recovered at the scene? I am sure all the details will be a few days in coming out. Crazy story.