TF/OME Springs Make No Sense

ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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Darien Gap
Let's start with stock D1 spring specs (driver side):
Front: 133lb/in rate at 420mm length
Rear: 208lb/in rate at 390mm length

Now let's look at TF Light/OME Med:
Front: 200lb/in at 400mm
Rear: 220lb/in at 425mm

That's a 50% stiffness increase in the front and 5.7% in the rear. What??? These are specified for up to 44lb additional weight with no mention of ride stiffness changes. Even if all that weight went in the front that's only a 2.5% increase in front axle weight, not 50%! Now I understand the rate is also responsible for the 40mm lift these springs are supposed to provide, but a 50% rate increase seems like the wrong tool for the job. It greatly increases the stiffness and harshness of the ride to get there.

Lets say you wanted the same 40mm lift with 44lb extra weight on the front axle with the same ride quality as stock. You'd be looking at a 138lb/in at 445mm front spring.

Now let's say you wanted an extra 5% stiffness to counteract body roll from the 40mm lift.
You'd be looking at a 143lb/in at 440mm front spring.

Now let's say you wanted another 5% extra stiffness to counteract body roll from sway removal.
You'd be looking at a 152lb/in at 430mm front spring.

We're still nowhere near a 200lb/in spring. You'd have to add nearly 500lbs to the front axle to get stock ride quality, but then of course you'd have zero lift.

Let's say I'm way off on the 5% rate increases for body roll from lift and sway removal and a 200lb/in spring really is required, why only counteract body roll in the front and not the rear (only 5.7% rate increase)?

Maybe someone else understands their logic, but I'm not surprised people complain about harsh ride of aftermarket springs, and we're only talking TF Light/OME Med so far. Next episode: The horrors of TF HD.
 

MM3846

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2014
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LI, NY
I think it's probably cheaper to make the springs stiffer, rather than better... Which would mean the spring would have to be much longer and probably progressive (to maintain that stiffness/body roll thing you are talking about) to get the lift you'd want.
 

97GreenMeanie

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Mar 24, 2014
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ny
Are you factoring in an aftermarket 120lb+ bumper and a 90lb winch and steel cable, misc. lights, etc?
Still seems ridiculously overkill on the springrate.
 

Ed Cheung

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2006
1,584
2
Hong Kong
Just a guess here, maybe it is related to weight distribution between the front and rear, and there is a maximum rate they can increase it on the rear due to drivability.
 

MM3846

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Feb 18, 2014
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Aren't stock rear springs progressive? So the reason the rear is so high (relative to the front) is bc they are telling you the max rate.
 

pdxrovermech

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2009
1,807
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Portland, OR
I dont over think it. I have heavy OMEs on my ride. They are great on the highway with no sway bars. Yes they are stiff off road, but that also allows me to hit stuff harder if momentum is necessary. Also I dont think any aftermarket spring will truly feel right until after a year or two of wheeling. Kind of a break in period.
 

ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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Are you factoring in an aftermarket 120lb+ bumper and a 90lb winch and steel cable, misc. lights, etc?
Still seems ridiculously overkill on the springrate.

TF Light/OME Med is specified for up to 44lb extra weight. What you're talking about would be TF HD/OME XHD which I'll probably cover in another post.
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,766
565
Seattle
This thread is interesting to me. I'm thinking of putting TF015 light springs on the rear of my D1. I mostly drive it empty, have slightly larger than stock tires (235/75/16), and even after recently installing new stock springs the back of the truck sits a little low.
 

ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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This thread is interesting to me. I'm thinking of putting TF015 light springs on the rear of my D1. I mostly drive it empty, have slightly larger than stock tires (235/75/16), and even after recently installing new stock springs the back of the truck sits a little low.

On a stock unladen truck you're looking at 5.8% stiffness increase and approx. 1.68" lift. If you don't want that much lift unladen you could run D2 rear lower spring seats and lose about 0.5" off that.
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,766
565
Seattle
Those changes sound OK to me. My Blingstein shocks are probably due for replacement before too much longer, anyway. I don't need much lift. I drive off-road a handful of times a year and all the places I go have mildly challenging terrain that doesn't require significant mods. Plus I find it's interesting to follow the modded trucks in my largely stock Disco. It does alright.
 

MM3846

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2014
1,231
164
LI, NY
This thread is interesting to me. I'm thinking of putting TF015 light springs on the rear of my D1. I mostly drive it empty, have slightly larger than stock tires (235/75/16), and even after recently installing new stock springs the back of the truck sits a little low.

I think about it too, from time to time. I'm running 245/75/16s and whenever I see that tire size with the OME 2" I just know I'd be itching to upgrade to 235/85s. So I stop thinking about it.

AFAIK they are not progressive. Some other Rover springs are though.

I just found a piece of paper in my desk saying that stock rear springs are progressive 155/215 from when I was researching springs and shock lengths. I have no idea where this number is from, but I also have 133lb/ft for the front... so that matches.

EDIT: Here's where I found it
http://www.red90.ca/rovers/springinfo.html
 

danleym

Active member
Jan 5, 2014
29
0
Colorado
I thought the stock springs were way too soft, personally. When I would hit a speed bump at all of 2mph and I didn't hit it dead on perpendicular, the Disco would sway back and forth for a bit while the springs settled down. I put TF MDs on mine, no added weight, and it just goes over bumps- not harsh, doesn't toss me around, but no swaying for forever afterward, either. I guess it all depends on what kind of ride you like, maybe some people like the swaying.

Maybe the aftermarket made the front springs so much stiffer because they identified an issue with those being soft, and felt the rears were pretty much stiff enough as is.
 

fishEH

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Jan 26, 2009
6,930
203
Lake Villa, IL
I thought the stock springs were way too soft, personally. When I would hit a speed bump at all of 2mph and I didn't hit it dead on perpendicular, the Disco would sway back and forth for a bit while the springs settled down. I put TF MDs on mine, no added weight, and it just goes over bumps- not harsh, doesn't toss me around, but no swaying for forever afterward, either. I guess it all depends on what kind of ride you like, maybe some people like the swaying.

Maybe the aftermarket made the front springs so much stiffer because they identified an issue with those being soft, and felt the rears were pretty much stiff enough as is.

That sounds like a shock issue.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,923
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Darien Gap
I thought the stock springs were way too soft, personally. When I would hit a speed bump at all of 2mph and I didn't hit it dead on perpendicular, the Disco would sway back and forth for a bit while the springs settled down. I put TF MDs on mine, no added weight, and it just goes over bumps- not harsh, doesn't toss me around, but no swaying for forever afterward, either. I guess it all depends on what kind of ride you like, maybe some people like the swaying.

Rocking is usually a symptom of insufficient shock damping, which on old worn out shocks is likely.
 

MM3846

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Feb 18, 2014
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LI, NY
I believe those are for pre-91 Discos.

Just took this (ignore the blue.. its lens flare)
xZfCcNP.png


And this is what that site shows for the stock Disco rear progressive coils
NRC8044_5.jpg


They look pretty similar to me, and even if they aren't, the ones on my truck are definitely progressive.