Effects due to adding heavy parts to LR3 ?

[jwest]

Aside from the 7 pages on one thread and 7 on another all started with a posting of the over-kitted LR3, I am curious as to how any of you more experienced owners think all this stuff may be affecting the overall handing of the vehicle.

I ask because after driving a basic loaner yesterday (same year/similar mileage ~10k), mine seems even more wanderingly like piloting a boat than I thought it did before. I guess I was used to it and figured the ~900 lbs of stuff ought not affect it 'too' much seeing as it is designed to at least haul 6-7 people averaging 150lbs+, right?

Also, the weight is all very low. The rack is almost nothing being the Hannibal aluminum type but maybe the rear end is what's doing most of the sway factor being that the Kaymar bumper, swinging arms, 90 lb tire/rim and 5gal fuel are that far back beyond the rear axle. As for interior stuff, I always take care to have it low (in the 2nd row foot well) and in the middle (not way back at the tailgate).

It is possible I am expecting more out of this than it was designer to do, be as capable off road while still have some on road goodness. Yes, it's very "smooth" and cushy but I'd rather give that up for steering response that is not so weird. The body roll is to me, less predictable and controllable than the D2 with medium duty springs and no heavy stuff added. My fianc? says the D2 like that was not such good comfort for multi-day trips but it never bothered me.

I have considered the Matzker "electronic off-raod handling kit" that is supposed to "stiffen" the air-spring rate while also allowing user selectable +/- 1" from the various driving heights which for hwy and cornering, they claim provides better handling while off-road, allows you to use the higher clearance as you wish. It's pricey and as far as I can tell, not proven or even "reviewed" by anyone really using it yet.

So, other than removing everything, to simply get it back to driving similar to stock, I have considered removing the "sliders" or at least cutting off the stand-off rails that are kind of a bother in everyday in-out anyway. I like how the sliders will to some degree, at least protect the air tanks and compressor but I realize I may have to unbolt them to really clear out mud that will accumulate and harden. Those were the single heaviest add-on though with the Kaymar being 2nd, and the winch with steel line 3rd, the ARB bumper probably 4th and because it's the big one, the 2150 battery 5th in weight. The Rasta plates are nearly no weight.

I think my dream car might be this lr3 body/technology and interior space on a solid axle platform! I guess a newer D110 with a TDV8 would just about be the one.

Seriously, any realistic ideas on how to make it handle better at high speed? Is there any way to increase the air pressure and would the system fail if one could?

A long time ago an old rover mechanic said the D1 would be the one he'd take to the middle of nowhere rather than something so computer based..... the answer to all of this might be very clear but hard to accept.

Thanks for any good lr3 ideas though.

 

[gordonwh]

You could just slow down - it's a 4x4 after all, not a race cart.

If you can't, the Kaymar rear bumper + accessories is probably your culprit - a lot of weight so far back, and it probably nullifies the lower rear swinging weights' attempt to reduce vibration. I'm not sure what you could do about it other than remove it?

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[D Chapman]

Like I said in the other post, weight is going to be a huge factor with this truck. Add all that shit and it's the air bags that will suffer. This is one reason I think the Rover Solutions sliders you have a so poorly designed.

To help correct it, I would start up front at the winch. Ditch that heavy wire cable and get some rope. Doing the rope alone will save you over 40lbs. Do a before and after drive around and see what you think.

Next, loose that Jerry can. Do you really drive around town like that? Ditch it and if possible, loose the swing away mount while not in use.

For shits and giggles, loose the sliders for a few days. See what they do in terms of improving the handling. There may not be a lot that can be done one you put them back on, but it will tell you weather or not the sliders are effecting the trucks handling.

I think by reducing the weight up front is going to make the biggest difference, no one will really know until you take a few hours to test it all out.

What load range tire are you running?
What tire PSI?

 

[traveltoad]

Just take all the crap off.

 

[nathansharkey]

Synthetic rope wouldn't be my choice...

Nathan Sharkey

 

[jwest]

Like I said in the other post, weight is going to be a huge factor with this truck. Add all that shit and it's the air bags that will suffer. This is one reason I think the Rover Solutions sliders you have a so poorly designed.

To help correct it, I would start up front at the winch. Ditch that heavy wire cable and get some rope. Doing the rope alone will save you over 40lbs. Do a before and after drive around and see what you think.

Next, loose that Jerry can. Do you really drive around town like that? Ditch it and if possible, loose the swing away mount while not in use.

For shits and giggles, loose the sliders for a few days. See what they do in terms of improving the handling. There may not be a lot that can be done one you put them back on, but it will tell you weather or not the sliders are effecting the trucks handling.

I think by reducing the weight up front is going to make the biggest difference, no one will really know until you take a few hours to test it all out.

What load range tire are you running?
What tire PSI?

Tires, the E rated BFG AT 265/65x18.... should be right around 42-44 but I'll verify tomorrow. I know higher pressure will improve hwy handling but don't want to go beyond "smart" psi for tire on hwy either.

Rear stuff, no, can wouldn't be there normally but I was wanting to know how bad it would be for long trips, like I just made from NC to Seattle. Seeing as I can simply have the spare underneath most of the time and really only need to have it out from underneath for off-roading, it could go underneath (lowering weight for most of the time) and then also just mount the left and right carriers for the trips when I'd want them - only 4-8 times per year seeing as this is the "daily driver" most of the time.

So, I will first try witho0ut the sliders and the can and the tire because it's a short time to do that, then if it feels any different, might go for a syn rope in the spring. I could also use the stock rims and winter tires until spring then which will undoubtably have some affect being that the tires will be stock size (255/55x19).

Thanks Dan.

 

[jwest]

You could just slow down - it's a 4x4 after all, not a race cart.

Cheers,

Gordon

Are you nuts- slow down ? The speed limits out here are often 70mph and sometimes 75, so of course I want to reduce my multi day drive times where possible. Over 80 mph nets pretty bad mpg so I don't do more than that often anyway. But yes, I would like a magic button that would change it from a VW V10 Touareg with 550 ft-lb of torque to a heavily modified D2 for going slow. The lr3 is somewhere in between.

 

[D Chapman]

Synthetic rope wouldn't be my choice...

Nathan Sharkey

I think the weight of the front bumper/winch combo is going to make up the bulk of the handling characteristics. I would imagine the rear bag set-up was designed to carry a load making the rear bumper/tire option not such a big deal.

With the cargo area empty, anyway.

But the front end may not have been designed to carry such weight. I mean, we're talking over 200lbs here on the outer most part of the truck. That extra weight will add sway to the front tires and ultimately "turn like a boat" in the passing lane.

40lbs is 40lbs. You're talking damn near 25% of the bumper/winch weight that was added to the truck.

In the end, what do you do? You need a which and bumper. You need sliders. You need a rear bumper......

The thing to do is install your components with the added weight in mind. This truck is not a D1 and it cannot handle all the "crap". You've got to remember Ford still has their head up their asses trying to model the Land Rover as a trendy vehicle for the wealthy. (But look where that got Lincoln and Jag). The trucks were not built to handle 400lbs worth of bumpers and sliders. So, considering your options wisely is going to be a key goal in making this truck into a nice weekend wheeler. Synthetic Rope, a lighter rock slider, reasonable size tires, and aluminum wheels, are all going to be key items on the air bagged trucks. If you do not keep this in mind, you'll end up writing a post like #1.

Just install what you need. All the goofy shit all over the trucks is hideous and makes you look like an ass. It looks like you're building a street queen to impress the young blond stripper at your favorite bar who's "saving money for law school and only working here on the weekends". But get real, the Land Rover is not going to match your 24k gold chain bracket lifestyle and you only end up looking like a douche bag.

It it were me, I'd loose the wire cable.

 

[umbertob]

How easy is it to remove the stuff on the roof when you don't need it? They may not weigh much, but rack and rolled up sunshades must add quite a bit of drag at highway speed. That's not going to help handling / fuel economy / noise level on long trips either.

Somewhat related, have you been able to store the BFG spare under the car? My 285/60/18 spare barely fits in the well, and only if it is partially deflated. I don't think I would be able to fit anything even fractionally larger, especially a tire as stiff as your BFG. But perhaps the spare wheel well is larger on the LR3 than it is on the Sport.

 

[jwest]

I rarely use the awnings but they are not designed to be on off too often whereas I do use the rack very often as a platform for work. Total on-off is pretty easy though as I used the yakima control towers to mount it all to the roof. it's as easy as unlock, flip out the plate that locks them, unplug all the rack wiring in one junction and the whole thing lifts off, lights, wires, awnings and all.

I recall the nitto tire did barely fit so we'll see about the bfg even though they are darn near exactly same diameter. with the fiberglass shield gone, it allows a little more room in case you didn't know.

I' going to pull the sliders, jerry can, and rear tire first to see how that is and then probably go for the rope in a few months.

I now realize my first idea to have a 2" receiver installed up front to allow use of the portable warn winch might have been a good idea for the once a month type offroad vehicle. it could have stayed home most of the time and would not have required the bumper either.... besides, the much lighter but heavy duty hand winch will work just fine most of the time and from where ever is the most useful angle. I could just sell the front end stuff and go back to that idea....

 

[gordonwh]

Considering that LR themselves provide a winch option for the vehicle, I'm not sure how much truth there is in believing that the front air-bags are not up to the task. I've had my winch + bar on for over 18mths now, with some long off-road drives (+4000km) on rough surfaces as well as long-distance hwy driving. Haven't noticed any deterioration in handling. However, I do recall that the front was lifting more slowly than the rear in the first couple of months, so I asked the dealer to re-calibrate the system. Seems it was slightly outside the accepted tolerances. Haven't had that problem since.

But the rear bar + tyre(s) suspend a fair amount of weight beyond the rear axle - probably a greater moment is generated than by packing the cargo area alone, especially on cornering.

Cheers,

Gordon