| Author |
Message |
    
Ray
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:51 pm: | 
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Today I took my 99 Disco II into the dealer for a clicking sound in the values and found I needed to replace the Rocker Assemblys. I was also told that soon I will need a valve job since there is a defect in this years model. What gives here. At this rate I am ready to dump this costly beast! I have been driving for 30 years and never have heard of such engine issues within such a low mileage time frame.
BMW did a great redesign on the Disco II but I sure am sorry they missed the engine................
Help me decide what to do! |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:36 pm: |
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Ray,
Your motor is a buick (215 ci) aluminum push rod v-8, nothing more nothing less. It does have the BMW intake/FI system on it...whoo hooo. Basically, I think BMW just held the paper. I'm surprised your rocker assemblies lasted this long....I had both sides rebuilt @15k. As far as needing the "valve job"... well in this case I believe the dealer may be blowing a little sunshine up your kilt.
Todd |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 08:17 am: |
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Todd - I didn't know about the BMW FI system. I thought it was just off the shelf Bosch. The only thing I've found on the car that's BMW are some switches.
Ray - I don't know about a defect on the 1999 models but I did have valve problems with my 1999 D2 and had the top end replaced around 40k miles. If you search around you'll notice that the valve problems are not just with the 1999 D2's. |
R. B. Bailey (Rover50987)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:30 pm: |
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I wish people would stop screwing around with these cars and just leave them ROVER. The ROVER V8 is suppose to be a really good V8, underpowered for the modern Disco, but my '94 V8 has 102k on it and it has only had an oil leak. My '65 2.25l on the Series is still running strong, and it has only had the work done to make it take unleaded! Why can't Rover just be left alone to make their trucks, no matter who owns the company?
Actually, I know why, it's because they aren't "technologically advanced" enough for todays market. If Ford wants to market the new generation Rovers for a multi-leveled marketplace, they should do what they want with the V8, but allow Rover Diesels into the market for their "Off-road" trucks.
Anyway, that's my not-very-thought-out opinion.
http://landrover.mrbaileyshistory.net |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
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huh?  I thought my D2 had a ROVER V8 (ala Buick). |
neil
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 01:31 pm: |
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Was this rocker issue ever rectified in later production models? What would the tell tale signs be of this issue?
Neil
01 DII w/24k fingers crossed :-( |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 02:45 pm: |
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Al,
You are correct the FI system is definitly of Bosch origin, I should have said the "sameish" as fitted to the 7 series beemer...I think, anyway thats what I recall from reading the early propoganda on the pig.
Neil, The signs are a lot of noise coming from the top end/valve train. If you're not hearing it...thats a good thing. As far as the fix...not sure. Mine was replaced under warranty and I don't know if the replacement was of the same quality or lack there of as the original. It's got a little over 20k on the replaced rockers and all is quiet...knocking on wood. I'll be pounding beverages with the TVR faithfull this weekend. Many a TVR sport the buick 215 (ok rover ;) )and these boys tend to push the limit. I'll find out what manner of madness they put in atop those push rods and report back. |
Neil
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 04:01 pm: |
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Dam Todd, I'm envious of you. I've always loved TVRs. Their new cars are very impreseive:
http://www.tvr-eng.co.uk/graphics/tuscanr/frames/tusr_fra_1.html
Thanks for the info
Neil |
Robison Service
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 08:55 pm: |
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The reason your rocker arms wear out is insufficient oil changes, low quality oil, and metallurgy problems. Mostly the first two.
What happens is that sludge forms in the rocker where it meets the pushrod. When the lubracation goes away at that connection you soon get a rocker arm failure. In addition, you get wear between shaft and rocker from low quality oil, no oil pressure at that point, and poor hardening.
Use Mobil 1 and it won't happen. I know, we do these jobs all the time.
As to your fuel injection - it is Bosch design made in England. Most cars in the world use Bosch license fuel injection of some sort. Posters above are correct that it is similar to BMW, but it is not the same. |
Ray
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 09:08 pm: |
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Dealer told me that the new Rockers were much harder than the old and will hold up. As for the valve job, he mentioned that I will have problems before the warranty runs out as the valves were made "too tight" for the US market. Based on comments it appears this is what I have to look forward too.
Anyhing else that will appear and break the bank on this model? Dealer mentioned valve job would be $3K if it arises outside of warranty |
Ray
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 09:11 pm: |
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Regarding the oil changes, I bought the Disco with 7500 miles on it and immediately began using Mobil 1 with a K&N filter. Maybe the damage was done by the previous owner. |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:15 pm: |
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Neil,
no need for envy....I have two of them...pity, woe, or just a little sympathy will do. Sure wish we could get our mitts on the new ones here in the states...someday.
Robison,
Help me out here, you provided the text book causes for rocker failure, but explain to me the occurence of sludge build up in a 15k motor that gets castrol @ every 4k. My understanding is/was that sludge build up can be accelerated by excessive heat and granted my little pig merely has a pretty gauge with no numbers on it, so I truly don't know what temp I am at...but I can't believe I am running at temps that would form crud at such accelerated rates. I agree synthetics are superior, but I have a lot of rolling stock with high miles...been in and out of motors, used castrol pretty faithfully, and have had no sludge problems or rocker failures. If I were a betting man, I go with the piss poor metallurgy or shoddy machining of the rocker arms.
Lastly, I was curious about the BMW 7 series reference. Sho nuff, on page 26 of the 1999 LR"Journal" propoganda rag...wherein it is written "The Discovery Series II uses the same Bosch Motronic Engine Management system as the BMW 7 Series". |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 01:30 am: |
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Ray,
All due respect here, but if it is warranty then you really should have no complaints. After all - the warranty period is where rigs are broken in right?
I will set aside the otherwise $8K in warranty repair I have had done to my '00 D2 and mention my experience this morning. I signed a reciept for my '01 VW VR6 Wagon (covered under warranty - no complaints) for $1300. The problem? Squeaky sunroof and a button not working on cruise control. They had to replace the sunroof frame and steering wheel. I can verify that over $1000 was just parts.
The point is: who cares? If it is covered under warranty you will likely walk away with a better product than the factory line was able to produce.
Curtis |
J E Robison Service Co (Robisonservice)
| | Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:51 am: |
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Reply to Todd's question:
Fuel injection:
Many cars use Bosch Motronic systems. None are the same. The ECU's, wire harnesses, injectors are unique to each model. In addition there is some variation in sensors. The article you refer to simply means that both cars use the same system, and Motronic is an excellent system. It does not mean they are part-for-part identical.
I'm the authorized Bosch Motronic service agent for our area, by the way.
Sludge buildup:
Sludge forms in some engines and not others. Toyota and Mazda have both had big problems in this area recently. Mercedes and BMW v8 engines almost never sludge up.
Nontheless, my comments still stand, that oil quality and change frequency are the main culprits. Some engines are simply more tolerant than others. An oil/oil change combination that works on a BMW might be fatal in the long term to your Rover.
It's important that you understand this because it's going to be your engine at risk. |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 09:10 am: |
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Robison,
Thanks for the reply. I realize that each FI system is unique to what it is serving, that was merely a dig at the Fine Marketing Folks at LR. By the way, where are you located...just in case the BM goes down and I quell my inherent desire to put a Weber set up on it. We can all agree on the culprits of mechanical wear and virtues of synthetic, however if the manufacturer recommends regular oil at specified intervals to ensure a happy health engine....I still have a problem with these rockers biting the big one after 15k. Lastly, does it have to be Mobil1 or can I use Castrol Syntec. |
[email protected]
| | Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 09:14 am: |
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Yep...use synthetic oil...the added cost is peanuts if you DIY. I have an 85 Saab turbo with 263K on it...always synthetic. I changed the timing chain at 235K...you could have eaten lunch off the inside of that puppy it was sooooooo clean...My Disco 2 is at 50K and runs fine...also it does NO harm to wind the tach around the dial a bit every once in a while!
Pete |
J E Robison Service Co (Robisonservice)
| | Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 10:34 am: |
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Todd,
We are Land Rover Service in Springfield, MA.
www.robisonservice.com
413 785 1665
Castrol Syntec or Mobil 1 can be used interchangably, with the proviso that if you failed to change the oil for a long time the Syntec would break down sooner. I learned that by doing a series of oil analyses on both a few years ago. |
Ray
| | Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 09:35 pm: |
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Curtis, with all due respect, am I to understand that the Land Rover will break down and be fixed under warranty and then stay worry free for the next 100K. I have a Ford Ranger which has 195,000 miles on it and have never done much more then change the oil, the brakes, the clutch once, and throw in plugs every 60K miles. My worry is that if the rocker arms and valves fail in the first few years, what can I expect for the next 100K miles. Should I be expected to set aside $10K+ to take care of problems when this beast is out of warranty? |
Ray
| | Posted on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 02:54 pm: |
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I guess the real question I have is this. If I have upgraded the Rockers and do the valve job under warranty can I expect the engine to then last for 100K+ or are there other parts that tend to wear out too? |
clarance
| | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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I had that assembly changed twice within 40k. |
Ray
| | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:44 pm: |
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Thanks Clarance,
It appears that these vehicles cost quite a bit considering all the problems they have. I wonder how many folks buy extended warranties to take care of these problems? |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 03:13 pm: |
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Service bulletin for the noisy rocker culprit...take a look
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/TSBScans/sb618833.pdf |
Erik Geagan (Geagan)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 03:07 pm: |
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My truck is at 100k miles and I have a ticking noise as well. One place tells me to dump the truck because the engine is going, another place quoted me $3k for new lifters & gaskets and the last garage I went to was for an inspection sticker. They lifted the truck and it was only the catalytic converter that was making the ticking noise. All the BS and stress, it turned out to be the catalytic converter . But yes, I agree with everybody, these trucks are outrageously expensive when you have to service them. The money we spend on one of these toys, you WOULD think, they would last 150k miles before you need to do ANYTHING. As of now, I have to replace the catalytic converter, back windows don't go down and the dash lights go out when I turn on the directional. Other than that, I love it. But at times, I just wonder why I didn't buy a NEW SUV for the price of a used Disco LSE |
sg
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 03:41 pm: |
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DISCOVERY SERIES II (LT) Up to YA265404
Stated in Service bulletin - so does this mean all numbers higher don't have to worry? These damn trucks. Love em / hate em. |
Erik Geagan (Geagan)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 04:39 pm: |
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Question... Is my truck (Disco 98 LSE) BMW made or is it Ford? I see "Ford Made"/ BMW MADE. Where does mine fall into? |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 05:53 pm: |
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Erik, yes I was one of the ones responding to your prevoius thread...the dealer should replace your CAT free...look in your service book and links in here in the tech section...CAT warranty goes much longer than the 4 yr whatever mile warranty given by LR....it's an EPA thing. All are LR made...however BMW was holding the paper when yours was made.
sq, if yours is later and you don't hear them chances are your fine...If needing to verify, pull your rocker covers and check the date stamp on the rocker as discussed in the bulletin.
If you go to back to the NHTSA web site you can view ALL of the recalls and bulletinfs for our pigs. |
OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 08:52 pm: |
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WARRANTY ON CATS AND PCM IS 8 YEAR, 80K ON ANY U.S. SOLD PRODUCT
AS FOR THE ROCKERS THIS IS THE FIRST OF AT LEAST THREE BULLETINS ON ROCKER ARM NOISE. THE CAUSE IS A STEEL CUP IN THE ROCKER ARM LOOSING UP |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 09:59 pm: |
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olivoil , you love you some land rover bulletens....
lol
i mean, YOU LOVE YOU SOME LAND ROVER BULLETINS
ROB |
Jason Vance (Jason)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 11:23 pm: |
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Quote:"The reason your rocker arms wear out is insufficient oil changes, low quality oil, and metallurgy problems. Mostly the first two."
So what happened before sythetics were commonplace? What was the service interval on changing the toasted rockers? |
Erik Geagan (Geagan)
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 09:00 am: |
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Todd - CAT warranty will not work with 100k miles. What the dealer is telling me. But he did quote me $1459.00 for the part. But I can order one online for $500.00 and pop it in myself. |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:26 am: |
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erik,
get your CAT from Summitt Racing and have a muffler shop put it in will save big $$$ or BIG $$$. Here is a link to Summitt
http://www.summitracing.com/ |
Jorge
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:59 am: |
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I just read this board and realize that I might have the same problem on my Disco II (1999) with 58K miles. can any of you describe the noise to see if it applies to my case? the noise that I heasr usually happens when the Disco was parked for a period of time and then I move it. it has happened both backing up and going forward, but all the time as soon as I take it ouut of parking and release the brake. it sounds like metal trying to find its place. any thoughts!
Jorge
P.S. my dealer has been using Valvoline oil...can I change it to Mobil 1 without damage? |
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