| Author |
Message |
    
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 10:12 pm: | 
|
I have an old Scott Fire fighter tank with a regulator on it. I want to use it basically like a Power Tank. But I am curious as to why PT uses CO2, does it compress more than normal air? The tank I have has a regulator, and it rated for 2000 PSI. What kind of place could fill it up? A fire extinguisher place by chance?
Thanks!
Will Bobbitt
[email protected] |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 10:21 pm: |
|
will, i also have a scott air tank and was going to check to see if it would work. i have not got around to it. basically the reasons you use the CO2 is it converts to liquid under relatively low pressure, so you can fit alot more in the tank and it is not flamable and cheap!
i dont know what the tank rules are but i'll let you know if i get to the refill station before you do.
rd |
Pugsly
| | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:21 pm: |
|
I filled up my CO2 tank today at the local fire extinguisher place. I have a Trail Air (same as Power Tank but significantly cheaper).
As Rob says, the big thing about CO2 is that it is tanked in liquid form, so you can hold a much higher energy load at lower psi.
Also, Dry Chemical fire extinguishers are charged with Nitrogen. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:19 am: |
|
Will,
CO2 can be kept in liqued form at a room temperature and pressure about 1200psi. One reason you can have a lot more of it in the same size tank as an compressed gas tank. However, the CO2 regulator may be - rather, is - different from many compressed gases applications. I don't know how either is made, but I don't want to (say) learn that one will blow up when liquid CO2 enters it by a mistake. FWIW, the couplings are different for different gases and tanks, and if the tank isn't fit for the purpose, no shop will fill it up.
peter |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:12 am: |
|
yeah, the question is , with the proper regulator, can the scott tanks be converted to accept CO2
rd |
Pugsly
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:53 am: |
|
It depends on the type of tank it is. If it was a dry chemical tank then no.
If it was a CO2 extinguisher (or halon), then yes.
The problem with those tanks is that they don't have shutoff valves, just the squeeze trigger. Those triggers are not known for tightly sealing again once discharged.
Also, if it is an old tank, the fire extinguisher place will have to pressure test it before they will fill it.
I recommend you take what you have to a fire extinguisher shop (one that actually refills/rebuilds on premises) and ask them. Most are used to filling the occassional CO2 tank for offroaders and paintballers. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
|
not a fire extinguisher tank, the scott tanks are what firemen wear on their backs for a SCBA
self contained breathing apparatus (scuba without the underwater part)
it is compressed "air" in the tank
air being the stuff we breath, in whatever percentages it is.
rd |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:09 pm: |
|
here is a picture of the tank
 |
John Lee
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 01:04 pm: |
|
There are a few guys in SCLR who use a SCUBA tank to air up. I don't know they rigged it, but they're definitely doing it. |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 01:48 pm: |
|
I just called a fire extinguisher place, and they said that your couldn't put CO2 in a container that was rated for air. He said that the Scott air pack with CO2 in it would be like a bomb. He also said that after about 5 years the tanks go bad, and the one I have is ancient. The semi-bright side is that I can put around 500psi in it and it should be fine.
Will |
Pugsly
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 03:35 pm: |
|
That makes sense. I didn't understand that this was a fire fighter air tank you were talking about (not a fire extinguisher) until now. Did they offer you a deal on a CO2 tank setup?
If you find a place that does a lot of tank recycling, they usually have something laying around that will do what you need. I got a really nice solid bracket for my 5 lb extinguisher for $10 because it was used and just gathering dust (this is the same mount that Power Tank will sell you for $47.99)
I'm not sure I buy the 5 year thing on tank life - a basic fire extiguisher comes with a 6 year guarantee. I could see how it would have to be pressure tested before refilling after 5 years, that seems realistic. |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 04:35 pm: |
|
The guy I talked to said that he would not make up a Power Tank type thing that I was wanting. He said that tanks could be hydro tested three times and that's it, plus my tank is over 12 years old!!! So I am going to try and find another company that can maybe do what I want.
Will Bobbitt |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 05:11 pm: |
|
WTF would a tank wear out.. hmm, well i got this thing for pennies so i figured if i cant use it as part of my armagheddon evacuation.
i'll let you know what i find out,
rd |
Pugsly
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 07:13 pm: |
|
I think looking for another company sounds like a good plan. The guy I go to is pretty creative, I think he likes the break from just doing fire extinguishers all day. |
Mike B.
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:42 am: |
|
A firefighter friend of mine has the same tank. He bought a cheap regulator and load it up with 3,000 lbs of air. It works just fine. The good news is that he can get if filled for free at the fire station, so it's a really low cost option.
Thanks,
Mike B. |
Nadim
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:57 am: |
|
What about using a scuba tank? |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
|
i think "scuba" tanks are inherently more expensive than say the beverage containers or the SCBA fireman's tanks. if you already have one though, you just have to go and find out.
rd |
Tripp Westbrook (Tripp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:36 pm: |
|
What are you guys using these air tanks for? Is it to simply air up your tires?
Wouldn't a compressor that runs off the car battery work just as well?
Am I being naive?
T- |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:14 pm: |
|
The reason for using a high pressure air tank is because it puts out alot more presure than what a normal ARB pump can. A CO2 tank can pop the bead back on to a tire, but the ARB can't. Plus you can use air tools with the tank more efectively.
Will Bobbitt |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:31 pm: |
|
The guy at the tank shop you spoke with is full of shit! Compressed gas tanks can be inspected into eternity although the inspection process becomes more rigorous as time passes. I believe that every five years, a hydrostatic test is sufficient, but after fifteen, a complete disassembly and internal visual inspection is required. I just had all seven of mine inspected and the youngest one is 15 years old. Shit, I have a CO2 fire extinguisher that was made in the 50's!
I also have a bunch of old Scott tanks BTW- the SCBA in the picture is no longer accepted for use in fire service.
If you could find a 45 minute tank made of fiberglas, that would be sweet, greater capacity and lower weight! Yee Ha!
As for tanks being rated for one gas versus another, as long as a tank is always used for inert gases, there is little to no reason why you couldn't use it for any inert gas. Some fuel tanks have stuff in them to increase surface area to accelerate the sublimation of the gas. The fact that your Scott tank was made for BREATHING air means it was made to a far higher standard and any fittings will be inert to just about anything you could put in it. If Bill Bettridge were around, he could probably make you a hose with suitable fittings to go to your regulator.
Seeing that old Scott brings back some memories-most very bad, like slogging around in haz waste up to my knees searching for the missing fitting in the tank!
Paul |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:34 pm: |
|
Boy, something like a power tank is just one more item on my wish list that would be so nice to have. Soooo convienient! I've been trying to figure out a safe and sane place to mount one ... As it is, with "the family wagon" (D2 with the jump seats in back, no roof rack) we barely seem to have enough cargo space. Oh well ... for now I have picked the money tree bare, and I don't see it springing up with an overabundance of new "leaves" in the near future, LOL. I think our scuba tanks may be too old (at least the one we would try to use for that purpose). I shouldn't be foolin around with anything too dangerous anyway, LOL. This is definitely one of my dreams though. 
Kim |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:11 pm: |
|
Kim,
if you aren't planning on using power tools on the trail, get yourself a 2lb bottle from a welding shop. You can stash it anywhere, it'll likely be enough for at least two complete air-ups.
Peter |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:34 pm: |
|
Hey, now there's an idea - thanks Peter! Duh(!) I never really thought about it that way ... LOL, at this time, I don't think anyone really wants to see me with power tools on the trail (I can hear it now ..."stand clear!! ... run for your life!") ... wouldn't be pretty, LOL!
Kim
of course, Greg may feel differently about the use of power tools, hehehe, but that's okay. I like this idea |
Pugsly
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 02:03 pm: |
|
If you get one from a welding shop, be aware that most of their regulators are 'low flow' and you will need a high flow regulator for airing up tires. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page