| Author |
Message |
    
Marc Ingham (Marcingham)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:13 pm: | 
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I am considering new gearing options and wonder what you guys think about 4.10 gears - best brand/service/price? |
Keith Armstrong
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:28 pm: |
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I got my sets of 4.10's from Great Basin almost three years ago now - the best mod I've made!
www.greatbasinrovers.com
Bill has a reasonable price on these gearsets and I just pulled the centers out and took them to the local gear and axle guys for set-up. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:29 pm: |
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keith, do you still have a smile on your face?  |
Tom Rowe
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 07:33 am: |
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On this subject, anyone ever put in Series 4.7 R&P?
Any problems with longevity? |
nadim
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 08:58 am: |
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Yeah,
I use Series 4.7s. grinded one set in the rear once, but that was my faulty installation (no tools, first time ever).
Now with the right tools, everything working great.
A set (front & rear) cost ~150$ in Lebanon... |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 09:05 am: |
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go with the Ashcroft 4.11(4.11 is stronger than the 4.10's...)
from what I understand these are about the strongest gears around, (especially for the $)
you can get these from discount rovers for like $325/diff i think |
Tom Rowe
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
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I was asking about 4.7's as I have plenty of them in my garage, ie, no $$ except for bearings and shims. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
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i hear lots of issues with using series gears. they like to blow up especially if you got the big meats.. and if you need 4.7's chances are you got the meats.
rd |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:20 pm: |
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yeah, but if Tom has extras sittin around, why not? (besides blowing them on the trail and having to deal with it then) |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:30 pm: |
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yeah, sure, try it out... as long as you are willing to deal with the potential issues, then who cares
rd |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:43 pm: |
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Tom, check this out:
http://greatbasinrovers.com/rpgears.html |
John Lee
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:54 pm: |
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I recommend Bill's 4.75's. The Rover 4.7's are very weak. Lots of people have broken the Rover 4.7's, even on easy trails. The 4.7 pinion is small and the manufacturing quality so poor you'll break them eventually. You might save some money now, but when your gears break, you'll probably mangle the diffs, bearings, etc. with the gears. And you'll do all of this on your trip that you've been waiting all year for and the trip will be ruined. And you'll break on some far-off place where replacement gears and service are hard to come by and everything will be a headache. It's just not worth it.
There's no guarantee you won't break Bill's gears, for everything can break. But I think Bill's 4.75's are definitely stronger than the Rover 4.7's. The fronts are reverse rotation, the teeth are fewer and larger, the materials are better, and the manufacturing process is better (such as heat treatment and cryo treatment). |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:56 pm: |
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So, Ashcroft or GBR?? Which do you prefer??
Jaime |
nadim
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 01:10 pm: |
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Isn't reverse cut weaker? |
John Lee
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 01:42 pm: |
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I prefer GBR. |
nadim
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 03:37 pm: |
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"Reverse cut" or "reverse rotation"...one of those two make the R&P weaker?
Am I wrong? |
Bill Davis (Gbrbill)
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:51 pm: |
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To the DW
Heres some answers to some of the questions asked here in a somewhat random order.
1) 4.7 Series gears will work in a later model Rover diff but is not reocmmended. This gear was designed for a vehicle that has 50HP at the rear wheels and weights about half of what a Disco weights. They have the wrong offset so you need a conversion kit which includes a spacer ring to correct the offset, which is not a strength enhancing feature. As somebody pointed out in this discussion and I frequently do the same in private discussions, any money you saved up front by using Series 4,7 gears is irrelevant the first time you blow them up and you don't usually blow them up in your driveway i.e. a nice convenient place to change them!
Also it takes more than bearings and shims to install them. As noted you need a conversion kit that includes a spacer ring, longer ring gear bolts in BS thread and a 4 spline pinion flange. If anyone really wants to do this I can supply a good quality new 4.7 gear for $189 and the rest of the bits new for another $100 or so.
2) There is a difference between a 4.1 and a 4.11 and a 4.11 is a stronger gear due to having fewer and larger teeth. The technical difference is the tooth count. 4.1 is a 10X41 (10 teeth on the pinion gear 41 teeth on the ring gear. A 4.11 is a 9X37. Dividing them together gives you the ratio. KAM makes a 4.1. Ashcroft and myself both make a 4.11. I'll put my gears against theirs any day of the week. They make a good gear but ours are far better for the following reasons.
a) we use a better material
b) we shotpeen them before they are heat treated
c) we roll the splines on the pinion gear instead of hobbing them, which is a minimum of 15% stronger
d) we utilize a reverse rotation design in the front, approximately 30% stronger when used in the front
e) we use a much larger 22mm pinion nut instead of a 5/8 UNF.
We also offer a competition extreme duty version that imvolves some additional metalurgical proceses. I don't sell my stuff by knocking other folks so I will re-iterate that an Ashcroft gear is a good gear and they are a good compny, but ours is a much better gear. If you lay them side by side the difference is obvious. An Ashcroft gear is fairly rough finished gear with lots of machining marks on the teeth. This is why even when they are set up perfectly they are fairly noisey.
As far as the price difference goes, you may be able to buy them slightly cheaper but ours include the set up shims, a new pinion nut and washer.
A reverse rotation gear is stronger in the front and weaker in the rear just as a normal rotation gear is weaker the front and stronger in the rear. The reason being is that R&P gears are directional and have a drive side of the teeth and a coast side of the tooth. The drive side is approximately 30% stronger. If you have a regular rotation gear in both front and back the front gears are driving off of the coast side of the gear because the front diff runs in reverse direction from the rear. This is why a reverse rotation gear is stronger in the front because by changing the cut of the gear you are now running off of the drive side of the teeth.
Bill
GBR |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 04:04 pm: |
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bill, what is the differnce between thread rolling and skiving hobs?
i am sitting here all day trying to design up some hobs and have beed doing all sorts of research trying to figure out how to make one. i had little experience with how gears in gerneral were made until a few weaks ago.
anyway i came across this site www.drgears.com which is helpful 'cause it has all the european nomenclature that americans dont normally use translated.
one thing i did learn that i had completely underestimated what the value of shot peening, i though it was mearly stress relief. for those intereseted in what shot peening is read this article.
http://www.drgears.com/gearterms/terms/shotpeening.htm
rd |
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