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John
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 08:44 am: | 
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Brakes: 99 DSII with 38K
I had my rotors measured (not by the dealership), here�s what they said:
Pads 2/3 worn, probably 10-15K left in them
Front Rotors: 0.980, discard at 0.866
Rear Rotors: 0.488, discard at 0.461
When I had it in at the dealership the other day for scheduled service, they told me that I had 15% left on my pads, the rotors were ok, and want to replace all 4 pads. They said that LR rotors �can�t be turned� and should be replaced when they don�t meet spec. That makes sense, but the non-dealership was going to turn them.
Since I�ve got traction control (I don�t know how worn pads affect it) and icy driving in the months ahead, I want to be sure it�s done right. After all, we�re talking brakes here.
Questions then, are:
1)How do the rotors look from the measurements? It may be obvious, but I don�t know where they started.
2)Should I get the rotors turned? Doesn't anyone do this?
3)Should I get the pads and rotors replaced? I don�t want to have to do the rotors in 6mos.
4)I�ve seen a lot about do it yourself pad replacement. I have a very knowledgeable friend who�s willing to help and can�t see why I�d pay anyone to do it. I�d like some more opinions, should I have the pros do it? I don�t want to show up at the dealership with an �I know, I know, you told me so� look on my face.
5)Do non-turned rotors accelerate the wear of the pads?
6)Do I need to use genuine LR pads? Has anyone had luck with any others? The Genuine pads are more expensive than aftermarket �high-performance� pads.
I�d really appreciate anyone�s opinion, or what they did. I suspect that everyone is faced with this problem eventually, and I just want to make sure my dollars get the best return.
Thanks �
John |
John Moore (Jmoore)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 09:13 am: |
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First off, Brakes are serious. If you don't know what you are doing or have a question GET HELP! You need to be able to safely stop your 6000 lbs rig!
Now, that you know not to screw up, Brake pads are very easy to change. You can do it with a pair of pliers.
I too have heard that you shouldn't turn LR rotors. Other feed back here would be good.
I use aftermarket pads on my 88RRC. But since your probably still under warranty you may want to consider genuine. Also, what effect will doing it yourseft have on the warranty? I have also heard less people complain about squeeling with genuine. (But, some squeeling is normal while any pad breaks in...)
Yes, rotors that are not smooth can cause premature pad wear. When you have the pads out, feel them with your fingers, see if they feel smooth.
Rotors can also been done by a good DIY shade tree, make sure your have a shop or haynes manual. Did it myself on my rig.
Lasty, don't skimp and re-use any of the pins or shims, make sure you get new ones when you buy the pads.
Go for it...
-John
88RRC |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 09:20 am: |
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Rotors can be easy to do. I haven't had any problems, yet some have had terrible difficulties.
Rotors are widely available from a variety of sources. I believe DAP may have the best prices currently on good rotors. They are cheap enough that it doesn't justify bothering to turn them.
I use cheapie pads and have not had unreasonable noise problems, but I put up with a lot from my trucks. Shouldn't take you more than half an hour to do a brake job, unless you have to get tools out, etc. You'll spend more time jacking the truck and removing the wheels than changing the pads.
If it took 38K to get where you are, I wouldn't worry about rotors until next spring.
Paul |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 09:59 am: |
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Rover rotors don't have a lot of extra meat on them when new.... if they're to the point that they need turning, ie a bit scarred, then the odds are that to turn them enough to eliminate any grooves will have them thinned to the point that they're under spec. That's why they say you just replace the rotors instead of turning them.
Replace pads often. It's easy, and a lot cheaper and easier than replacing scored rotors.
-L |
John
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:21 am: |
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I've been told that given those measurements, I can get them turned and still have enough life for another set of pads. The measurements don't mean much to me, so what does anyone else think about them? |
streak
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
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It's a question of how scored the rotors are. They would need to be skimmed down to the deepest groove which may be too much. Having said this the LR dealership did skim one set of rotors on our DII. The car repeatedly shuddered under braking and after 2 sets of new rotors and 1 set of skimmed, they identified a bad batch made with inferior steel (so they told me). Since the new rotors were fitted no more shuddering.
As a previous poster said, dont take chances with brakes. By all means DIY the pads but if there is any doubt then have the rotors replaced. |
Jeff Penrose
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 01:49 pm: |
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Being the one who will be under your truck asking you to hand me the tools I have to give my opinion.
I agree that we need to look at how scored they are. Call me and I will come over tonight and look at it cold (so I can actually touch the rotor) to feel for scoring. Call the dealer and ask then what the original width on a rotor is that will indicate % of wear over the last 38K.
If it comes down to needing to turn them then I would almost be more inclinded to just put on new ones. Those numbers seem awfully close to expired.
And I still suggest the LR pads, haven't heard anyone bragging about the kevlar or any others. I even spend the $ for LR ones on mine.
IMHO |
Ed Petrush (Exp3)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 02:52 pm: |
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Not sure what the starting width of the rotors are but if they are scored they can be turned (by a reputable mechinic on a lathe that turns them while on the vehicle.) My advice is to get a price for turning and look around at all the oem supplier (Atlantic British, etc..) and price new rotors.. then decide..
as for brake pads.. I would always go with stock pads.. the problem with cheapo pads (as someone called them previously) is that these are usually made with a harder pad material than the oem's and will cause the rotors to wear (basically the break pad material is harder than the steel in the rotors) instead. these aftermarket pads tend to heat up a considerable amount and can cause the rotors to warp causing the shudder in the steering wheel that a lot of high milage cars have.
This of course is my own 2cents.. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 03:47 pm: |
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When I replaced my front pads on my DI it had approximately 110K miles. Oneof the rotors was moderately scored. Being the cheap bastard I am and overconfident in my abilities (some times), I just slapped a new set of pads on. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the truck stops great and the rotors turned themselves wonderfully! For the cost of rotors, versus aftermarket pads (is it my fault I work for a tier one supplier that ships parts out in boxes bearing the OEM's name and logo, thus I'm not afraid of aftermarket?), throw a set of pads in and run with it. If you're maintaining your truck in anything approaching a suitable frequency, you will have inspected the brakes soon enough to know you need rotors. You are rotating your tires religiously, aren't you? I rotate mine at every oil change and inspect my brakes at the same time. I need new rear pads, but will give them another few thousand miles before I replace them.
Paul |
Brian
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 12:22 am: |
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My '97 D1 needed new pads at about 55K. I took it to a local brake shop where there was an individual who had spent most of his career working on Jaguars. Since I had heard metal-to-metal contact the day before, I was anxious to get it into the shop. After an examination of my brakes, this individual said that even though I had a small groove in my rotor, they should not be turned due to the thinness in the rotor. But, he said he could simply put new pads on and everything would be okay. He has done this on Jaguars hundreds of times because Jaguar owners tend to freak when they find out how much new rotors cost. As I said, this was at 55K, I now have 90K. Everything has been wonderful even with slightly grooved rotors. They do not even squeak. The pads themselves tend to turn the rotors. |
Frode H�bertz Haaland (Discofrode)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 06:52 am: |
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Guess this is pretty much a question of whether it's possible to postpone some costs.
Land Rover states rotors/discs can not be turned, and would not have been worthwhile anyway. They're cheap...but nevertheless...
Guess pads are your restricting factor - which are cheap...but nevertheless...see your point.
Replacing rotors/discs is pretty simple on D1 (chk Ottos pages: http://home.halden.net/discovery ), and it's also a convenient time to grease wheel bearings as well.
Don't know anything 'bout changing D2 rotors, but I guess it's pretty similar.
To me, it seems you'll not run out of rotor-meat for some time, so what I would have done is:
* Take your own measurements of the rotors and pads thickness, and keep the record.
* Take new measurements in a month or two/quite a few miles/kilometers.
* Find a calculator and a helpful kid to do the calculations - and you should find approximately when rotors and pads will wear out.
* Order new stuff and put them on well ahead of your stipulated rotor life expectancy.
I.e.: Keep rotors and your pads for as long as you can, but do it safely!
Cheapest and simplest option would be to just change your pads, and check on the rotors from time to time...
Frode |
John
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:21 am: |
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FYI,
I contacted the dealer yesterday, and here's what the important measurements are (with mine for reference, converted to mm). As you can see, at 38K, my rotors are in pretty good shape.
DII (mm) New Mine Minimum
Front 25 24.9 22
Rear 12.6 12.3 11.7
Thanks for everyone's input.
John |
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