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cm9601
| | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 04:10 pm: | 
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I just ordered 35's and 4.56 gears for my disco and was woundering if any else had tried this before running stock axels. Any advise would be great.
Thanks |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 04:32 pm: |
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4.56 gears? i didnt know there was a 4.56 out there....
if you are settingup diffs, might as well do lockers
you will break the stock axles with 35s. hell, you will break GBR axles with 35s if you arent careful.... |
nadim
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:59 am: |
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Ideally, if you have lockers AND have all 4 tires on the ground (flexy suspension), AND drive with a steady right foot, then you may be able to run HD 24 spline LR axles and better. |
James Gall (Jimmyg)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:17 am: |
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What about CV joints for the front? |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 07:35 am: |
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there are several options for the CV's. If you want to spend major$$, just call up GBR and get some for like 600/ea. Or, you can get some 24/23 spline inner front axles, anda 23 spline CV, such as the D110 CV. also, you can have CVs "longfielded" for 115 per side. |
nadim
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 08:23 am: |
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I think the 110 CVs are a better option. I got a hold of a COMPLETE front axle of a '97 110 (rear hit), so that will be slappen on several months down the line.
I am wondering whether or not the Salisbury will fit in the rear of a Disco. If I remember correctly, its a tight squeeze between the Rover Diff and the fuel tank. not to mention that I have extended the rear axle a further 2cm (3/4"), which is not a good thing for that swap.
Another question, are the standard 24 spline Salisbury axles that much better than the Rover 24 spline axles. I kow that the diff itself is stronger due to the 2 pin design versus the 1 pin of the Rover, but with an ARB, that issue it dealt with, so why should I go for a Salisbury if not for the ring & pinion, and the axles (decreased clearence)... |
nadim
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 08:26 am: |
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I think the 110 CVs are a better option. I got a hold of a COMPLETE front axle of a '97 110 (rear hit), so that will be slapped in several months down the line.
I am wondering whether or not the Salisbury will fit in the rear of a Disco. If I remember correctly, its a tight squeeze between the Rover Diff and the fuel tank. not to mention that I have extended the rear axle a further 2cm (3/4"), which is not a good thing for that swap.
Another question, are the standard 24 spline Salisbury axles that much better than the Rover 24 spline axles. I kow that the diff itself is stronger due to the 2 pin design versus the 1 pin of the Rover, but with an ARB, that issue it dealt with, so why should I go for a Salisbury if not for the ring & pinion, and the axles (decreased clearence)... |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 11:09 am: |
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isnt the shaft quite a bit bigger in the sals? |
nadim
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 12:14 pm: |
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(Sorry for the 2x post...get the message now?...hehehe) |
Mel A. (Krawlrovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |
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I thought that the Salisbury axle output shaft if the same diameter as the stock 24s on our discos, but the rest of it is basically a Dana 60 (which is pretty damn tough) |
weldkid
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 03:52 pm: |
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the salisbury axleshaft is the same diameter as the regular 24 spline rover, with the major exception of the fact that IT DOES NOT NECK DOWN. this significantly increases the strength. not to mention you can also go to 1.5" 35spline alloy axleshafts for about $500 from Jack MacNamara in AU.
a salisbury will fit in the rear of a disco, you may have to increase your bumpstops though. the one disadvantage is the ground clearance, you will loose very close to 2" of it with a salisbury. oh there is also the issue that it has drums and not discs, but there are conversion kits available.
Nadim- your axle does not have the CVs that are desireable. it will have the same exact ones that are in your disco right now. the CVs that are strong are the EARLY 110 ones, which is up until they changed to 24 spline. these CVs are the 23 spline units and not the 32 spline ones that your axle has (both the disco and the 110). so im sorry to say that you bought that front axle for nothing.
i believe that the best strength solution is to get a 30 spline ARB (front and rear), then run ashcroft 4.11 (must be 4.11, not 4.10 it is weaker) gears, jack MacNamara 30 spline axleshafts with early 110 CVs that have been longfielded, like Will says. this setup is still very breakable, but it is the best solution there is for the land rover axle housing.
if you want to talk pure beef, then buy a pair of Dana 60s and make up the brackets to put them under your rover. |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 04:07 pm: |
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fwiw, the part # for the D110 CV you want is AEU2522. you can buy some after market ones that are "resealed" or something like that for 48pounds(75$ at paddock spares.)
im going to buy new genuine ones though. |
Pete
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 05:47 pm: |
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I heard that a standard LR axle is like a Dana 44???? |
weldkid
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 08:13 pm: |
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pete! BAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
yeah right.
a fully upgraded (24 spline) rover axle with high quality 4.11 gears is just barely equivalent to a stock D44. a stock rover axle is comparable to a stock rover axle, nothing else. it just plain sucks.
now you can put toyota differentials in it with 1.31" 30 spline axleshafts that will make it as strong as an upgraded D44, but not by much. the 44 has a very strong ring gear and center section that both the land rover and toyota diffs lack.
if you want D44 strength in your rover (front) axle, you have to do this-
-Warn (the winch company) alloy 30 spline axleshafts (custom cut)
-CTM D44 Ujoints (made from 300, super beef!)
toyota high pinion differential with the axle bolt pattern redrilled to fit it
-factory toyota electric locker
-4.11 gears
this will essentially give you aftermarket D44 axleshafts with the best ujoint there is on the market. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 08:20 pm: |
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weldkid,
dana 44s seem to hold up with 35s all right in a 5000lb truck, with about 300lb-ft of torque, 2.6 low range ratio and 3.54 in the open or limited-slip diffs. add a locker to it, and stock driveshafts aren't good anymore.
peter |
weldkid
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 08:28 pm: |
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what vehicle are you describing peter? surely not a land rover. |
Pete
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 09:20 pm: |
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Well sorry for my stupid question I'm still new to Land Rovers. I always thought that LR axles were "tough enough". See I also have Ford Super Duty DRW, now that you guys informed me of LR axle weakness, I think I will put my Ford's Dana 80 with 4:30 gears in the Land Rover. Now that would be a sight to see, I bet the axle wieghs more then the whole LR. LOL !!!!! |
weldkid
| | Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 09:25 pm: |
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lol close to it. land rover axles ARE strong enough in a stock application. but once you start adding larger tires and lockers and other heavy stuff then you greatly increase the potential for breakage.
a dana 80 would be something, with stock size tires you might not even dragg the diff on the ground over a speed bump  |
James Gall (Jimmyg)
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 12:18 am: |
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I hate to say this and I know I'll get hammered across this board, but if you are willing to replace so much on a disco to run (safely) 35+ inch tires, wouldn't you just buy a Fj-80 and spend the $500 for 3inch lift and throw on 35's!!! The fact is, LR's don't need 35's to get over what most TOYO'S need 35's to get over(if you drive worth a shit)!
Just my experience from observation on the trail. |
nadim
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 01:15 am: |
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MMM...So that front axle is useless...ok...no problem...guess I'll sell it to someone...
So I should be looking at early D110s front axles to get the right Cvs and axles, no? Or can I just purchase these CVs brand new, and get the axles accordingly?
As for the rear, I do not think the Salisbury is worth it all, I mean, 2" decrease in ground clearence, and all that, I'll prefer putting the cost into the 30 spline rear axles and drive the way I have recently learnt to drive, which is smart, and not heavy-footed!
Goodluck to us all! |
Npzook
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 01:55 am: |
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To solve axle problems check out Maxi-Drive diffs,
you diff lock mounted on 2 pin carrier, bigger axles, strenghtened drive flanges, longer spline engagment and cv upgrades for front, extra benefits like warning light operating off the actuator arm position not the switch, external locking actuator, very popular in oz, i run one in the rear and axles show no signs of wear on splines, have not heard of a diff breaking even on 35's. checkout for some other cool stuff http://www.4wdworld.com.au/products/maxidrive/index.htm |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 06:45 am: |
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nadim,
yea you can buy the early D110 CVs, then inner axles made by either Maxi or Ashcroft that are 24 spline diff end, 23 spline CV end. you will also need some special drive flages that GBR can provide..just call bill@GBR and tell him what you do, and he can help you out. |
alhang
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 10:22 am: |
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parts and prices, you can probably buy stock rover flanges and bushings for dirt cheap, i just haven't gotten around to buying those yet. there are other choices out there too, drop me an email if your interested and i can give you some options on what can be done. you can also use the older rangie cv which has a separate stub axle that can easily be replaced on the trail.
2 AEU 2522 early 110 23 spline CV's
-$74.00 US each plus S&H from UK (paddock spares)
-$245 US/pair plus S&H from UK(mansfield motors)genuine
2 23/24 spline axles (from Ashcroft or GBR)
-$284 US per pair plus S&H from UK(ashcroft)
2 Drive flanges specifically for the 110 CV's
-200??? from GBR
2 Brass bushings (avail. from GBR - not sure the part number) |
andrew
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:34 am: |
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Hi
Okay now we have read a lot about axles and make them stronger. But there is just one thing that makes me curious.
How do you make enough room for your 35's in full articulation.
I am running 2 inch bodylift and a 2 inch suspension lift. I also have cut front and rear and have installed the D2 Wheel Cover.
But I just run 33x10.5x15 and it is still very tight. So I really can imagine how to make enough space for such big tires.
By the way. I run ARB Lockers front and rear and 4.11 Gears from Ashcroft. And still stock axles. And I havent break anything yet. Maybe I am just lucky. |
alhang
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:41 am: |
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john from rovertym runs 35's with 7 inches of lift, trimming, and axle relocation. his setup consists of 5 inches of spring and spacer with 2 inch bodylift. multiple pics are on his site. you can go with much less lift if you run the ultra skinny michelin commercial tires, but they're hard to come by. |
nadim
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 03:24 pm: |
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Land Rover Math:
2" body + 2" Sus + Extended Flares (@ECR) = 35"s
Hence:
(Smily Face)
Therefore!
AXLE Problems?
Anyone didn't get it
(by the way, I'm not the sexy, short-skirted, babe of a teacher you are imagining!)
Cheers! |
nadim
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 03:49 pm: |
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Since I'll be shipping anyways to Lebanon, I think I'll be ordering something for the rear at first from Ashcroft.
As for the front, I know a guy that has a beat up '86 110, maybe that front axle can be unbolted...
We'll see... |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 04:40 pm: |
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yea Al Hang's pretty much got it....i think the price on the bushings are ~50 pair. you also need some double lipped seals. |
weldkid
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 06:05 pm: |
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why 35s on a disco? why not?
it can and has been done. if we were always doing the smart thing (FJ80) then we wouldnt own land rovers at all!
you just dont understand, what can be done to an FJ80 can be done to a disco, it just takes a little more ingenuity. |
E Snyder
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 08:04 pm: |
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In this case, ingenuity = fairly major $$. Of course, if you factor in the cost of a 95 Disco vs. a 95 FJ-80, you might still be ahead!
(happy owner of a nearly valueless 95 disco) |
Bill Davis (Gbrbill)
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 02:56 pm: |
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To the DW
Heres some comments about this topic.
1) no such thing as a Rover 4.56 diff ratio.
2)In regards to the comment about breaking GBR 24 spline shafts, it is correct that you can break anything given enough time and effort but in 30 years no one has ever broken one in two pieces.
3) If one chooses to use D110 CV's its not as easy as it sounds and if you don't use an upgraded D110 CV you aren't gaining much. Also there is a huge difference between an aftermarket D110 CV and a genuine. If your paying US$75 for a CV joint, its not genuine.
4) Nadim - if you have a front axle from a 97 D110, you are out of luck. In 96 Rover started using the same front end and hence CV joints (32 spline) as D90's, Discos. The better CV joints (23 spline) were produced from 1983 to 1988. In 89 thru 95 they went to the smaller 32 spline but is was a joint with a longer stub axle.
5) Not much difference between the strength of a 24 spline Salisbury axle shaft and a Rover 24 spline axle shaft. The reason to go to a Sal is R&P strength but its less expensive to put a Rover R&P in a 4 pinion carrier such as an ARB or Detroit. Sal is still stronger but the 4 pin carrier doubles the durability of the Rover R&P
6) A stock Rover 24 spline set up and a stock Dana 44 (and it depends upon which Dana 44) are not much different in overall strength. If you upgrade both they are still about the same. If you add the cost of converting Dana 44's to run it a Rover it doesn't make any sense in my opinion. If you are going to all of that extra expense why bother with Dana 44's, you miight as well put in Dana 60's.
Bill
GBR |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 04:00 pm: |
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Bill, if one were to run 36" tires on a DII, what upgrades should he be expected to make? TT and Detroit are already installed. Currently on 33" tires for daily driving, with stock hardware. Just want to know what I'm eventually in for. Oh, the 36's will be for extended events and trail runs, not daily driven. |
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