| Author |
Message |
    
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 10:01 pm: | 
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Hey all,
Here is the ? Tried a trail today called Minesweeper and I could not get up. I need to lay out the scenerio so I can get some good advice. The trail head starts with a very steep and tall rock. In fact it is so steep and tall that you could very eisily roll over backwards. The trail is in one of Rick Russel's videos and a Bronco rolls off of it. can't remember the video name right now but as soon as i find it i will post. Any way---the problem is that i really really want to drive up the trail and there are no winch points ahead to tie off too. I need to make a winch point that i can use as a type of safety net to keep me from going over backwards, i will not be winching myself up the rock with it, just using it as a final safe gaurd.
I am asking for suggestions on what to use. There are no rocks big enough to tie off too. We tried pounding a post in the ground but it is way to rocky. A pull pal will not work because it will not dig in. We attempted to us a tow strap and have a couple of people hang on to it but it is too dangerous for the holders and too far of a drop for them to get pulled from. The only real answere that we could come up with is to drill an actual hole in the rock and pound a type of stake in but we really don't have the technology to do that. Thought about using a type of caribeener (sp?) that climbers use but couldn't really find a place to set it adn i have never heard of anyone using that type of thing before.
I am sure that some of the more experienced people here have run accross this situation before...any advice or tricks that you all have used.
btw....It is a 97 d1, ome hd springs and shocks, 265/75 furtura mt, no rear stablizer, sg drop kit in rear, cones, arb lockers ft and rear.
I am going to tackle this trail again next weekend and would love some advice. and of course...any colo people that want to come along please join.
tia
brian |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 10:16 pm: |
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there wouldn't by chance be two trees on either side of the trail would there??? If there are just attach a chain or piece of cable between them and attach your winch cable in the middle.
Other than that get an unsuspecting friend to attempt the ascent first. If he makes it you can use him as a winch point, if he doesn't then you will have some EXTTTTRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEMMMMMMEEEEEE pics to post on the board. Good luck. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 10:37 pm: |
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Carter,
Nope no trees...the trail runs through what is probably a water ravine and the left side is prbably 37 degrees and about 100 feet up..all rock and the right side is a wall...again 100 feet up. I was the second truck to try it but the first guy couldn't get up either. |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
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hmm,
This may be worth the drive down to watch you give this a try ;)
Maybe you could get Matt to take the rock buggy up first and be a winch point for you.
Do you have any pics of the hill? |
David Marchand (Dmarchand)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 07:56 am: |
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Pull-pal. Buy one. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 10:59 am: |
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David,
Pull pal will not work. Too rocky.
Dave...come on down. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 04:43 pm: |
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Any more advice? |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 04:48 pm: |
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air way down on the front axel it will by you a couple degrees against a rear roll
also once you are on the slope accelerate smoothly up to prevent a tire from breaking loose
if you do fail to make it make sure not to add steering imput as you roll back, most over backwards rolls I'v seen(and 1 i did) are from stuffing one side of the bumper into the ground instead of the whole rear end square.
TAKE PICTURES |
LR Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:34 pm: |
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Brian,
Maybe if you could bet a big chain to put around a boulder, then that might work. Or get a few smaller length chains and hook them together. But make sure that the boulder is in the ground real good. That would suck to have some huge boulder comming down and turning your truck into a rover pancake  .
Saw that on Bill Burke's "Unstuck" Video  .
Max T. |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:39 pm: |
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He said that there were not any rocks or other winch anchor points available, including a pull-pal. I believe that the goal is to gain some sort of an unnatural/artificial winch anchor. |
E Snyder
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:40 pm: |
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yeah, I think we need this attempt on video...
You mentioned using your winch line as a safety line, and driving up. I've done that a few times, and it works if you drive up the slope stop and start. If you drive up it without stopping, you'll drive over your cable, unless maybe a high speed winch will take in line as fast as you're driving? I've always been worried about hanging the cable up underneath the truck. It's fun to concentrate on driving and run your winch control at the same time! (Unless you've got someone crazy enough to ride with you for this stunt...) |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:45 pm: |
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It would be cool just to see some pics of the obstacle and that might help people come up with some ideas as well. |
Ted Chestnut (Tedchestnut)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 06:17 pm: |
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instead of figuring out how to pull yourself up, just build up the bottom of the boulder a little bit with some dirt, pack it down real good throw some rocks on it and head on up, then no one will have a real problem with atleast the very beginning. i dont know if thats against the rules or anything. just seems like something id do. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 06:29 pm: |
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Wait for a friendly in a rig that can solo it to go ahead and then he can anchor you. Otherwise, a wise man knows when to admit defeat. Also, how are you going to get down?.....hehehehe |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 06:50 pm: |
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yea I gotta say blue has a very valid point, but I have seen so many trails that just get better as you go. I remember coming to a group of guys once in upper migh where they had stopped and were lunching it and kinda holding up the show.
we asked if they could move a truck so we could get by,one of the guys just got irate as hell saying the trail ends 50ft that way so fuck off and to turn around where we were. then one of the calmer heads in the group asked asked where we wanted to go . we told them we where gonna go up the rocky hill and down to the river. the guy just laughed and said we werent gonna go more then 50ft before we se how stupid a idea it was. he then moved the truck and we all drove past them up the rocky hill and down to the river just as we had the day before. the guys just stood there watching in amazement. last time I was there this spring the trail was well worn all the way down to where we went that year.
my long winded moral is you just have to keep going...but then again I drive a 90%trail rig and in a street going disco blues admit defeat idea carries alot of water |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 06:54 pm: |
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I will take pictures this weekend weather or not I get up. The trail is in rick russel video colorado #2 if anyone has it and wants to see what I am trying to do. Yesterday after the atemp all I could think of was< "I wonder how much it will cost me to get up this thing?"
Blue----hhhhmmm..getting down will actually be worse and will be of considerable contemplation, but only if I get up first...I'm kind of like the kid climbing a hill and not thinking how to get back down first. And nobody has ever accused me of being wise.
Ted,
There are no real rules but I want to drive up the thing unaided. The rope thing is only to keep me from going over. Also, I don't think I could build a big enough ramp without a bull dozer.
Cliff,
You are right....temporary tie off point. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:34 pm: |
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 |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:46 pm: |
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Here is a picture of Minesweeper. When i took them I wasn;t thinking about posting them so are not as detailed as they should be. The obsticale is much more difficult than it looks.
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Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:51 pm: |
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Here is a picture of Minesweeper. When i took them I wasn;t thinking about posting them so are not as detailed as they should be. The obsticale is much more difficult than it looks. |
Keith Armstrong
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 02:03 pm: |
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I'm not exactly in the neighborhood, but found some Jeep folks views of this at
http://quaggy.tripod.com/mine.html
Take a look at their strategy (or lack thereof) |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 06:06 pm: |
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lol... he is lined up but never moves forward...
that is a daunting looking challenge. get that on video we want to see it
rd |
Pugsly (Pugsly)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 06:10 pm: |
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That site has eggsullent spilling and grammer. I wish I hud a spilling chekkur. |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 06:12 pm: |
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Is there a flat spot anywhere near the top?? It looks like once the "V" ends, it kinda just goes straight up. But yea, get that on video going up...and coming down. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 06:38 pm: |
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LOL ROb, I thought that too. A hundred pics of the guy staring at what's in front of him and touching the first step with his tire...
Brian, your slinky setup will have your body getting rolly polly all over that off-camber stairstep shit...sounds like fun to me |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 07:00 pm: |
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They may not spell well, and may have some subject/predicate issues, but the Jeep folk in the area seem to have the hang of the trail...
Minesweeper |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 07:08 pm: |
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These too |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 07:08 pm: |
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RJ - when were those pics from? They refered to winch anchor points... were those temporary or still available?
What a trail! |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 07:56 pm: |
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Just a guess but those temporary winch points might have been the CJs that they said made it up without winching.
Damn, I can't wait to see pics of this Brian. |
Jason T. Barker (Speedminded)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:32 pm: |
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....Cordless drill with a concrete bit. Go to the hardware store and pick up an eye-bolt, (looks like a big bolt but with a circle/loop for the head, similiar to pic) Just make sure the hole you drill is a little bit (no pun intended) smaller than the bolt. Either hammer in the eye-bolt or if your afraid of damaging the eye then put a pry bar or big screwdriver through the eye for leverage and turn. Also, chip the top around the hole so you can make the top of the eye-bolt flush with the surrounding rock and still be able to clip to it then just clip on your winch hook to the eye-bolt (or you can add a carabiner to it first)
 |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:46 pm: |
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Jason, have you ever done this. I might be wrong but I don't hold out much hope for the ability to drill a hole in rock with a cordless drill/concrete bit. I have seen a concrete bit and cordless drill have trouble drilling a hole in concrete and rock is alot harder. My suggestion: if you are serious about drilling a hole in the rock try a rotary hammer. |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 10:49 pm: |
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I agree with the theory. But I also question the cordless drill. If someone is running a power inverter, try an electric drill.
(Coleman 400w Inverter @ Advanced = $30) |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:00 pm: |
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I can see it already
masonry bit $10
"(Coleman 400w Inverter @ Advanced = $30)"
a extension cord long enough to reach where you need to get your winch cable to...priceless |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:14 pm: |
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LoL
Had to go and think logical... |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:51 pm: |
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If anyone has an on-board air system get some air tools and go borow hoses from everyone you know with a compressor. |
Jason T. Barker (Speedminded)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:40 am: |
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Well, originally Brian said something about not having the technology to actaully drill something into the rock but suggested some sort of climbing apparatus....I don't think they make a cam, hex, or stopper strong enough for a vehicle and if there was a crag large enough to put something like that in why not just use a scrap piece of steel to tie off to use as an anchor (piece of angle iron or scrap drive shaft/axle or anything to put behind two rocks). Best bet is just a 15lb. sledge and and a strong pointed steel rod, just make sure the same person that hands gets mutilated while trying to hold the stake doesn't run over the spike sticking up, maimed hand and flat tire...now that would be cruel.
Also, most hardware stores rent tools, i.e. hammer drills, jackhammers, etc. and Lawn & Garden has fertilizer(ammonium nitrate), diesel, etc. go ahead and break the wallet with a couple road flares too.
good times. |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 01:30 am: |
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Of course the drilling will work. You think rock climbers run extension cords 400' up?
Or you can be a real man and get a hand drill
http://www.climberschoice.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=254&pf%5Fid=13206%2D100&store=1&mscssid=3NC1JFF0VDPD9LCGNP6RFK5HN5V3D71A
And doing the math, which I'm probably doing wrong, you could put in 3 caming devices, equalize them (which should be great fun with 3/8" cable) and it would hold you. Looking at the Wild Country Friends cam, they are tested to 14kN. Figure a 5000Lb. truck on a 15M line is about 33kN of force. Hook up 3 and you should be good. Of course, everyone would think you're a dork and throw full Coors cans at you. But it could be done.
As with climbing, I'd look for their anchors, label them suspect, and back them up with your own.
pwc |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 09:01 am: |
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Guys I gotta say that if the rigs attempting this trail don't make it up by their own winches with EXSISTING anchor points or a pullpal, give it up...come back next year with better traction, more lift etc...whatever it takes....
Brian, I know you only want the winch for safety but there must be a better line if the SWB guys are making it.
On the other spectrum, Really where's the satisfaction of making it to the top of something when you need to call Dig Safe just to ATTEMPT it. Crap even winching the whole thing is lame; any retard can take a strap or winch a trail, whereas strategically winching a certain obstacle can be considered a safe alternative.
Brian, if you guys couldn't make the trail, try getting together with some of the locals and see how they run it....you can always learn a ton from the locals. Maybe come back when th erig is better equipped. Don't change the trail just so you can make it up (someone suggested adding rocks etc....if you need to do that, be sure to put them back. Not everyone wants it easy.
I'm not trying to be a dick or play "holier than thou" but just remember there may be a reason you're not making it up there.
Clif I just dredged Google for the pics and links. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 09:54 am: |
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yeah, i think it is in very poor taste to start drilling into the ground and hammering metal beams into the rock. if your truck cant do it with a removable anchor i dont think you should be treading there.
same with climbing. of course emergencies are an exception, but the whole idea of aid climbing and pounding petons in the rock is irritating to me. "leave no trace"
rd |
Moe
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:15 am: |
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Just do what Maestri did in 1970 on Cerro Torre. He dragged a compressor up the the rock face placing over 300 bolts on the way. I think the compressor is still up there, attached high on the wall
The alternative is take a few bags of cement and sand up there and level the minesweeper out and make a nice ramp all the way to the top. Problem solved, obstacle conquered  |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:18 am: |
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Leave no trace would indicate you go back and cover up all your tire tracks and any mars you might have made on a rock or tree.
Give it 10,000 years, Mother Nature will rust that bolt down to nothing. And don't mind the roads that were paved in to get to most climbing places. Not meaning to start a Holy War, but you're a human, you simply can't "leave no trace", we're just not good at it.
pwc
PS If you use the cams and anchor in the rock, you can take them out and no one knows. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:30 am: |
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Yeah but then you're a sucka cause you used all sorts of other means to climb the hill...it's not about getting to the top, it's HOW you do it. Shit if it wasn't, you'd either walk or take a helicopoter....and yes climbing and driving are different but like I said if a SWB jeep can make it so can a LWB (referring to the toppling over backwards issue here).... |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:42 am: |
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RJ, Rob,
This is from Brian�s post
"I want to drive up the thing unaided. The rope thing is only to keep me from going over"
Granted others have posted destructive ideas, however I think Brian is looking to make it up this under his own power, with the added safety to prevent a roll over. I applaud him for pushing the limits of his disco and hope he makes it.
Brian, Let me know when you are going to give it a try. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:48 am: |
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Dave, I aknowledged that in my previous post (one before last) and wasn't bagging on him in any way. I was more referring to the other folks who were suggesting the construction of a Mall of America there to get him to the top LOL....no harm no foul!
RJ |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 11:25 am: |
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Quote:Yeah but then you're a sucka cause you used all sorts of other means to climb the hill...it's not about getting to the top, it's HOW you do it. Shit if it wasn't, you'd either walk or take a helicopoter....
Actually, you only use your body parts to make the climb. The mechanical devices are there for protection. Same reason you have bumpers, airbags, and a steel cage in your truck. I used to do a lot more unsafe free climbing than I do now...but with a wife, child, & mortgage, I have obligations. That's just the way it is.
But I wouldn't be drilling & hammering winch points in just to hump my rig up a hill... |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:04 pm: |
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Blue, I was referring to the using a means other than what you have on or in the truck to make the climb up minesweeper, not what a (human) rock climber uses or why they use it.
Why are you qouting me? Maybe I should have written this,"Yeah but then you're a sucka cause you used all sorts of other means to get your truck up the hill...it's not about getting to the top, it's HOW you do it" ? It would be more clear. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:09 pm: |
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oh, I thought you were talking about human climbing. That's why I was quoting you. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
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lol....sometime's I'm not as clear as i could be....ever read "Looking For Mo" by Daniel Duane? |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 01:48 pm: |
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Ah the old End Justifies the Means/Means Justifies the End debate. Well, to each his own. To you it's HOW. To others it's IF.
I like the way Brian wants to do it and was just suggesting ways to make it safer if need be.
Blue, you do much alpine climbing or mostly rock?
pwc |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 01:54 pm: |
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Arizona rock |
Chris Lomonico (Clomonico)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 02:11 pm: |
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hey i am right out there near salida in leadville, if you are planning on going again any time soon (depending on weather) look me up in advance.
--c |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 02:24 pm: |
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Hey Dave Lucas and Chris Lomonico,
I am going to give the trail a shot again this Sunday. I would love some company. |
Chris Lomonico (Clomonico)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
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i will be round then, give me a call at 719.486.2421 on saturday and we can plan meeting point and what not.
--c |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 03:00 pm: |
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One of you grab a video camera, preferably digital. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:22 pm: |
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Brian,
I think (I said I *think*) this would be a good obstacle to use bridging ladders on, or some other sort is supplement similar to this.
That is of course, you REALLY want to get up this.
Max T.
Land Rover Disco-$40000
Bridge Ladders-$400
Getting up the obstacle and then have Jeepers come and not be able to get up it-Priceless |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 07:16 am: |
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Looks like the Jeeps went on up on their own . And RJ I have to dissagree with you. You sound like one of those kids that hasnt learned what that attitude will get you yet. Sometimes its about what is after the climb , not the climb itself. I would also like to see your winch technique since you seem to think its easy as pie to just winch up/over anything... I for one like the trails that are simply impassable. One that has spots that simply cannot be driven over. Thats when it gets fun..
Kyle |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 02:20 pm: |
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I talked with the guy that opened the minesweeper trail today. They had originally put winch points up but one of the anti-4x4 groups cut them off and used a front loader to dig out the front of the obstical. The Salida police had an investigation going but were unable to determine who whas responsible for the vandalization. Gets me real worked up, you have an environmental activist that is using a front loader to hack apart a trail. Makes me want to go to PETA and bite the head off a bat and the Siera club and tie my winch cable to a tree without using a tree strap. (BTW...I always use my tree strap and I do always follow the "Tread Lightly" guidlines, but these people piss me off. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 02:25 pm: |
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Kyle according to the site most of the jeeps didn't make it up on their own:
"Only a few CJs were able to make it without winching" |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 02:51 pm: |
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yeah, also like those anti-abortion nuts who go and blow up the clinic...
rd |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 02:58 pm: |
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PETA.com used to be a site called "people eating tasty animals" then the damn courts made them take it down and give up there domain even though they owned it and were just sharing recipe's
free speach...yea right
police state |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 03:00 pm: |
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If God didn't want people to eat animals why did he make them out of meat? |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 03:18 pm: |
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The version I have always heard is: "If God didn't want people to eat animals why did he fill them so full of tasty meat" |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 03:32 pm: |
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And besides all that, "you can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat." |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 03:40 pm: |
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another fine example of hypocritical "environmental activism", whatever the fuck that means. What a bunch of dumb shits.
Funny story - one of Earth First's "activists" went out with his bonesmoking friends to save the trees by climbing up and hanging out in them so loggers can't cut them down. Earth First is one of those touchy feely hypocrit hippie groups. Anyway, this was this moron's first tree party and he fell out of the tree and had a quick lesson in gravity while accelerating at 9.8 meters per second per second. He kicked the bucket when he hit the "earth first". hahahahaha |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 03:48 pm: |
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Hope he didn't land on any animals or plants. lol |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 03:50 pm: |
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best pun I've heard in a while Blue |
Bill Gilmore (Mountainjeep)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 04:53 pm: |
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Breaks my heart to see Land Rovers fail where Jeeps continually succeed.
flame away!!!
hee hee
J/K thats a tough spot. good luck! and be safe. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 06:39 pm: |
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All depends on the Rover Bill.. And the driver... They can also do it carrying a payload that weighs about as much as a jeep......
Kyle |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 06:50 pm: |
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Some of my problems with the trail are.
1. the best line is to the right...but the over head rock is lower than my roof.
2. straight up would also be good but I do not have enough clearance.
3. to the left....very off camber but that is the line I am going to take. I will have to go up that line about 4 feet then make a sharp right to clear the rest of the obsticale.
I have given this much thought. I don't know if you can tell by the pictures but I would like feed back on the line I am planning on taking. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 07:20 pm: |
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Brian,
I would suggest unloading anything heavy from your roof rack and try to get your CG low and to the left side of the vehicle as much as possible.
Although no one here, on the board, looking over the internet can tell exactly all of the conditions and how to steep the left side of the trail is. I might suggest getting one of your buddies to hang off the high side of the truck in order to help keep the truck from rolling over. This was suggested in a book I read recently (4-Wheel Freedom by Brad DeLong).
BUT, if you are going to do this, safety is very important, so use your Brian brain (I thought that was funny ) and try not to squish the guy. Kinda like BlueGill's Earth first fellow .
Max T.
I need to get get stuck out west sometime |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 08:55 pm: |
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Max,
The hanging on the side of the truck thing is a good idea exept if he slips off he will fall under the truck...it is that steep. The Brian brain thing was kind of funny.
Anyone got some knd of advanced driving technic? I don't think I will be able to set up a winch point. |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 10:20 pm: |
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Well, tozovr's second link (http://casey.stvin.org/photos/minesweeper) seems to show a couple full-size jeeps making it up without a winch. Pretty interesting trail! |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 11:47 pm: |
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If you rush it or are in a crowd and trying to make a point you will more then likely not make it. Take your time and take multiple shots at it from different angles until you find the one that it walks right up. This isnt specific to that obstacle but obstacles in general. If you are locked you shouldnt have an issue from what I see. Looks like a left and then a right to get the thing leveled off again and avoid the big part of that second edge....
Kyle |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 12:50 am: |
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It sounds like your biggest issue is those first four feet, because once you clear those then it is the sharp right which is turning into the slope, eventually, leveling you.
If I am correct... then your in good shape, because you have plenty of room to set-up your first shot at it. |
Moe (Moe)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 10:46 am: |
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Good luck. That is tough start to a trail.
Somehow I keep thinking the fella that removed the anchor points and took the loader to the start of the trail is a local property owner. How many environmentalists have front end loaders and equipment to get it to the trailhead |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 11:06 am: |
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Kyle and Cliff,
I think both of you are exactly right and that was my takde on it as well. What the pictures don't show is the damage at the very beggining of the obstical where the front loader scooped out a bunch of dirt.
I will be trying it again tomarow and I will be with my running partner who is in a cherokee with 6 in locked ft and rear and 33', a stock d1 and Im locked f and rear 265/75 2 in lift. My clearance is a problem on this obstical. There will probably be about 3 other trucks with me. I will take some pictures. |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 11:32 am: |
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Looking forward to those pics. Having a Disco sitting up there will give a lot better perspective in the photos. It will also be interesting to see if that Cherokee can crawl on up there. Be nice if you could nurse him up and then at least use him as your winch point. Sort of a... sacrificial lamb, lol. Good luck. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 01:09 pm: |
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all i can say is it is exhilarating to drive up something that looks as impossible as that. that buzz is the best.
rd |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 11:31 pm: |
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Brian,
If you got some of them Rovertym sliders, then those would make the job of the dead weight man less dangerous. Expecially if you got one of those cool steps, you just pop that in and tell him to hold on.
Good luck with your venture! I hope all goes well.
Max T. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 02:24 am: |
|
Max,
I would love some of those Rovertyme sliders. However, this 4x4 stuff is becoming very expensive. I have resigned myself to learn how to weld and to learn how to bend metal. The sliders on my truck are home made and the metal bending I am talking about is bending my rear bumper straight enough to open the rear tale gate.
I have herd bad news from my friend in Leadville....he has two feet of snow that he has to dig out.....bad weather will kill this trip.
However, I am determined to drive up this obstical....no matter how many tries it takes. If it was drivable once.....it will be drivable again and I think that a Rover should be the one to drive it.
Thanks to all that gave driving advice....most of the time I can get through a trail with just the fact that I am in a Rover.....but this trail is different
I will take all advice into account and I guess when it comes down to it I will have to follow my instinct......
Kyle............I was hoping you would chime in and you did. The line you picked was the same line I thought I should run and that is the line I will run tomarow.
I am hoping for pictures but I will have to let my 10 year old take them. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 05:42 pm: |
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Kyle, wow you got all of that from that post huh? When a guy in some other vehicle does it with no winch or strap then you just became the "guy who winched." Yeah even winching may not be easy in many cases, but Kyle, if guys have driven over these obstacles, then the MIGHTY ROVER should be able to drive as well. This trail is not impassable.
Now if the trail is truly impassable, winching can at times be the only option. You are correct. Thanks for questioning my winching technique (but you may ask one of the Dweb members about it as a few were witness to said technique this weekend) But when guys are driving up the trail without the winch, you lose merit.
I winch when I get stuck or it looks as though I can not make the obstacle. When do you winch?
My "Attitued"? No attitde, just a guy who digs wheeling.
RJ |
George Clayton (Offcamber)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 06:30 pm: |
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Kyle: Oh, great....just what we need....another Rover Owner with a hard-on for Heeps and Heep drivers....
Toz....thanks for the USEABLE info here, and I promise, not to ever try to put your XJ in the back of my DSII for Kyle.....
sheesh... |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
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I tell ya what, this would be a great oppertunity for a Rover Club out in Colorado to give back to the 4 wheelin' community by putting in some winch points. Many clubs do a trail cleanup or install fencing to keep ATVs in their areas, maybe this would be a good time for a club to make the trail a better place .
Think of it like (off roadin') community service. And the best part is that when you're done, you get to go play on the rest of the trail .
Max T. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
|
I tell ya what, this would be a great oppertunity for a Rover Club out in Colorado to give back to the 4 wheelin' community by putting in some winch points. Many clubs do a trail cleanup or install fencing to keep ATVs in their areas, maybe this would be a good time for a club to make the trail a better place .
Think of it like (off roadin') community service. And then when you're done, you get to go play on the rest of the trail .
Max T. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 09:46 pm: |
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Gosh darn, sorry for the double post. My bad.
Max T.
I'm outta here |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 09:48 pm: |
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Well, its Sunday night. Do you have a report to make Brian???? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 07:31 am: |
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RJ , please dont start here. You are a back yard wheeler who doesnt have much to lose . How about driving out to the obstacle the guy is talking about and then stopping and thinking for a second just how hard you want to go at the thing ? I feel your whole perception will change quickly. As far as being "The guy that winched" , well , I much prefer that over "The dumb ass that didnt know when to say when". As far as your winching technique gos , well , show me some pics of you on some real hairy trails and we will talk about it...
George ??? A hard on ? Man , I love the little Heeps but they have their place... Thats just the way it is. What I said above is simply fact , not my opinion. Compare weights... Do you have a problem with the truth ?
Kyle |
George Clayton (Offcamber)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 09:32 am: |
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Kyle, I have no issues with the truth. I have problems with people thinking they're the elite in any situation. Whether you're the Jeeper who thinks Rovers are Mall-Terrain vehicles, or a Rover owner who thinks his DSII 110 or D90 is unstoppable, and should be reveered bowed to by Jeep owners. After spending the weekend wheeling the piss out of my (as yet) relatively stock '00 DSII with a bunch of Jeepers, Rover Owners, and Rice Representation, it was awesome to see a bunch of different platforms be successful at different technical areas on the trail, and the collaborative efforts of all to solve the problems that arose. This is instead of "Gee you dickhead backyard wheeler.....I could fit your Jeep in the back of my Rover for fun..." crap we're seeing here. Read any good Wheeling Magazines, lately?
Silly, silly, funny, funny man......
I can't wait to see how the challenges of this course get solved by the guys who are running it (Kyle, be sure to send me a pic of you and your rig from the top...without petons or a helo lift to get you there....Don't forget to stuff a Jeep or 2 in your cargo area.... ). I'm hoping that through collaboration with people who have done it before (RJ, props on the recommendation to talk with the locals), and minimum mechanical intervention...outside their Rovers...they can safely get to the top.....looks like one hell of a climb. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 10:17 am: |
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Kyle, don't wanna start a flame war with you here (or volly back at you). I'm not trying to make this personal. Thanks for questioning my "winching technique" and for calling me a backyard wheeler. You don't know me, my techniques, my rig or where or how often I wheel, so please don't pretend you do. It's easy to be articulate and cutting behind a computer monitor.
I don't understand how anything I wrote deserved that kind of critsism. Please accept my apologies if I have offended you and the LR gods in any way and just drop it...as I said before, I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you.
I do agree that it's important to not be a hero, and thus know your rigs and your own limits and capabilities. As I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with winching, but when you have to resort to winch and that requires you to build anchors, I feel some of the "Soul" is lost. Like Rob said, some of that Buzz. I never said, nor meant to imply that if you winch, you suck.
RJ |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
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backyard wheeler?
if that trail wa im my backyard I'd be a backyard wheeler as well |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 10:57 am: |
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Well guys,
The trip was cancelled due to snow. got a call at 7:00 am sunday saying that there was 2 to 3 inches and blowing snow in salida. As bad as the trail is in dry conditions....we will not even attempt it in wet.
I was very dissapointed. We had to buzz around some easy trails for the day and hope that the sun burns up the snow soon. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:07 am: |
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Really now, with all the drills, rotary hammers, jack-hammers, power inverters, and air compressors we are suggesting you bring how hard would it be to throw a few heat lamps in the back of the truck and melt that stuff away??? |
michael burt (Mikeyb)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:17 am: |
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i know this post may be a little late, but i just started re-reading this thread...
about using climbing anchors such as friends, they may e rated to 14kn, but it is my understanding that rating is for a shock load and not a steady pull...i have no fear (well, little fear) of a friend failing under the load of my falling body (i only fear if my placement is bad), but i would not stand anywhere near someone trying to pull a 6000 pound rover up a hill with one...
fwiw
mike |
michael burt (Mikeyb)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:23 am: |
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or even 6
mike |
Mike Holmes (Myktoolbox)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 12:23 pm: |
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here is a log on the fire -
drilling into rocks is a bad idea. in colorado there are greenies watching every move wheelers make. they can't wait to shut down a trail to offroaders. drilling shit doesn't exactly fall into the tread lightly motto that most sensible wheelers out here have.
get mad about it and start flaming if you want, say its only a few holes here and there, i don't care. its a bad idea, period. i care about the maintaining the luxury we have of being able to choose from 100's of trails to ride. i want to keep every single one open.
go ahead, whine and name call. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 12:30 pm: |
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RJ (and Brian), screw anybody who doesn't think you're "cool" for proceeding at your own pace, or for winching. Try a few different lines - if it doesn't work, back off and reapproach. Back off, air down, and reapproach. Back off, have lunch, and reapproach. Let the monster trucks and rock buggy trailer queens play through. If someone hurls insults your way, don't justify them with a response. Or you can knock them on their ass - that speaks volumes too. At any rate, if you can't find a good line, then ask someone to sit tight while you use them as an anchor and winch up & over. Simple enough - have fun because it is fun, not because cool = fun. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 12:32 pm: |
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good point Mike...and trust me, drilling into competent bedrock is not fun. |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 12:51 pm: |
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All depends on the drill Blue. Currently work for a company that manufactures a wide line of drills for concrete, natural rock, etc. specifically used by professional construction companies. Personally have drilled into 14,000psi concrete railroad crossties without any problem. They also come in a battery powered version. Also have a line of removable anchors that would easily hold a loaded LR up most anything. Not to plug our company but more for just information: www.hilti.com
Jaime |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:10 pm: |
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well, yours may drill into rock like a hot knife through butter, and sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but that don't necessarily make it fun.
LOL, seriously, I know the right tool makes all the difference. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:15 pm: |
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Well said Blue. Thanks. |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:38 pm: |
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Never have tried sewer rat although did live in NYC for awhile lol.
Just wanted to make sure people don't start sticking eye-bolts into holes made with who the fuck knows and then trying to use it for a winch point. There are tools and anchors that can be installed easily and be used in a safe manner.
Personally be thinking about carrying one myself to remove the boulders PA is placing in front of all the roads I used to use in my younger days.
Jaime |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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Mike,
there are already winch points up there that the "greenies" cut off. And I think you are right that thy would love to take some pictures of some 4x4ers out there drilling and dynamighting holes in rocks. I can see them rally around the Boulder times talking about all the environmental damage we are creating. That would be very bad p.r. for the 4x4 comunity.
my goal for this trail run is to drive up the thing unaided and to secure some kind of strap to keep us from going over backwards. It is too bad that a pul pall would not work. I do not plan on drilling anything in the rocks...(although Carter's idea of melting the snow with giant hair dryers was a hell of an idea) but the trail is open for use and I am sure that I could get permision from the blm to "repair" the damage to the winch points that the greenies have done.
I disagree with the idea that winch points do not follow the tread lightly motto. I am sure you have seen trees that people have winched to without a tree strap. Hackett's gultch is a good example of how winch points help with the tread lightly program. before twinch points were installed the top of Hackett's rock people were cutting accros off the trail to bypass the obsticle even after some of the clubs built barriers to keep that from happening. Winch points help preserve the trails and help promote responsible wheeling and winching.
Blue,
For some reason not very many people go to the trail. I have been there twice now and did not see anyother vehicles so I think we are on our own so I am not at risk of testosterone damage. |
Mike Holmes (Myktoolbox)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
|
" disagree with the idea that winch points do not follow the tread lightly motto. "
thats not what i said at all. i only referenced "drilling shit." strap to whatever fixed point you can without altering or damaging it, trees, boulders, other rigs, whatever.
"before twinch points were installed the top of Hackett's rock people were cutting accros off the trail to bypass the obsticle even after some of the clubs built barriers to keep that from happening. "
then those wheelers were morons and installing winch points only temporarily appeased the morons. they are probably out on some other unconquerable trail, driving off trail and winching off of chipmunks. so where did that put the "cause" ahead? i think permanently altering or damaging natural surroundings to overcome the obstacle is wrong. people who need to do that should figure out something else, like improving their driving capabilities or rig's capabilities. if they don't have the problem-solving skills to do that, they should go to an easier trail or go home. i think the hackett scenario you described is no different than the minesweeper scenario.
its just my opinion. but my opinion and the way i wheel will never get a trail closed to offroaders. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 03:32 pm: |
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Mike,
There will always be the idiots out there that will not follow the tread lightly, there is no getting around that. Your opinion is valid but to the greenies just the fact that there is a road and that people drive on it is cause for them to get wound up and try to close it...no matter how tread lightly you or I tread. They hate the fact that motor vehicles drive out there and will always try to close a trail. It is true that they might use drilling for winch points as another reason to close a trail--I'm just saying that I think it actually helps with tread lightly. We have to police ourselves--I am a very responsible wheeler- but not everybody is conciencious about what they do and although people should do what you say here----
"I don't think that people who need to do that should figure out something else, like improving their driving capabilities or rig's capabilities. if they don't have the problem-solving skills to do that, they should go to an easier trail or go home." people will not just go home--they will cut, or tie off to trees or do whatever they can or want to do...it is human nature.
In regaurds to Minesweeper....there used to be winch points and there used to a better aproach ange...the greenies cut them off and BULLDOZED the the beggining of the trail...talk about messing up the area. I think the bull dozing is worse than winch points.
For me....i want to drive the trail....I also want a tie off point for safety. If I can't drive the trail I want to have the option of winching it. This is a very interesting debate. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 05:06 pm: |
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Yes RJ , meaning that you are just tooling around in your "Back yard". I did it growing up and I had nothing to lose. I turn the bitch over , blow the bitch up , whatever , I didnt have much to lose because (worst case scenario) it wasnt a very long walk to pavement and then a short hitch hike home to get another truck .
You get out in some remote areas and things become a little more complicated. A bit more dangerous as well.
And exactly why do I have to be "Pissed off" ? Or "Flaming" ?? I simply added my thoughts on it (Which you obviously didnt like). I rarely get "Pissed off"....
As far as knowing you and your truck and all the good stuff. Well , its pretty obvious. We see it here about a thousand times a day. Mostly from the youngins . Certain things come out in the posts that pretty much tell ya what kinda things are priority to certain types of people.
I do agree with building the winch points and think that whole portion of the thread was the funniest thing I have ever read here. There are anchors everywhere , you just need to find them if you need them (The 60' of cable from that lame ass thread probably would reduce your options).
And to address your "Behind the monitor comment". ask anyone that knows me. I am nice here and much more blunt and to the point in person... I have no problem with that at all....
George , I really needed a laugh today and I agree with you. I will respond to you if I ever get out and actually run a trail with an obstacle on it...
Kyle |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 05:25 pm: |
|
Mikeyb,
You are right about the loading of Friends. kN is figured something like weight x length over time. So this is more important in climbing when the time equals a very small figure. In this case, when actually using it for climbing (be it vehicle or human) you have to figure in the time equation. IN that case, they would suck, I agree.
Brian,
I've got the ultimate low impact solution that doesn't require any of this. Here's your shopping list:
-2 kegs of Bud
-1 bus
-35 Frat boys
-200' of cable
I think you can figure out how that goes together to keep you from going over backwards. (Hint: Make sure the Frat Boys get OUT of the bus before tying the cable to them.)
pwc |
ryanspeed
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 06:04 pm: |
|
Climbing equipment is a bad idea any way you look at it. The strength ratings are in KiloNewtons which is 1000 X 1kilogram X 1meter/second/second, and it is a measure of force. 1KN=225lbs, and the rating on climbing gear is the failure rating, the working load limit is much lower. The force applied to them has nothing to do with time in a static situation, only the acceleration of gravity (constant 9.8m/s/s) and the mass of the object, if something is hanging from them. Time is only a factor when your shock load it, which will be a function of the mass, the speed at which the mass hits it, and the amount of time required to stop the mass or break the anchor. Beyond the strength of the equipment, your anchor is only as strong as the rock you place it in and the force of a loaded landrover popping off of that ledge is way more than can be distributed by a few pieces of climbing gear. That is why the blade of a pull-pal is so large, it distributes the force over a larger are hence the larger blade with the heavy-duty one.
Unless you want the inprint of a wad of broken climbing gear in your hood, I would suggest coming up with an alternate plan. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 06:04 pm: |
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Life and death or Roll and still make 4 years of payments....fawkin kill me if I wreck the pig in my back yard or on Vietnam or at Paragon....still high stakes for a Po' boy like me! |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 06:09 pm: |
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Peter,
kN usually is an appreviation for kilonewton which is a unit of force in SI units. 1 kN = 224.81 pounds which is a more common US unit of measure. don't think time or length units are involved in the rating. there are tests for shock and long term time criteria to rate something, yet, the result is just kN or lbs or tons or etc. unit of force.
Jaime |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 07:09 pm: |
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calculationewtons aside, climbing gear is for climbing, and recovery gear is for recovery. |
michael burt (Mikeyb)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 08:38 pm: |
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thank goodness there is no doubt as to what beer is for...
guinness...for strength! |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 10:05 pm: |
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1kN does not= 225lbs, unless you mean 225lbs/s2.
It is a measure of force not weight. Time and length are important. A person falling on a 20' rope creates more shock (kN) than a 5' rope.
Hmmm....I'm having trouble finding the original formula I found for calcualting newtons, other than the mass x 9.8 m/s2, which is for falling weight. At any rate, you notice time is a factor here and the longer the time, the less newtons. Sometimes people express weight in newtons (as in 1kg = 10n) since the object is not moving, but this can be misleading when thinking of kN as far as force applied.
AHH HA! I found it! A newton is mass x acceleration. So a 2700kg truck moving at 1m/sec2 = 2.7kN. And a land rover hanging freely on a line = 2700 x 9.8m/s2 = 26kN. So it stands to reason, that three Friends rated at 14kN breaking strength could hold a static rover in midair if held in solid rock and properly equalized.
I agree it's not a good idea to use climbing gear in this case. I was pointing out an alternative and thinking "outside" (no box needed) as in something that is removeable and an anchor and leaves "no trace".
Ah never mind. I can't remember my original point so forget it. Other than I'm not too good at math but I know what a newton is, more or less ("Jenny, I may not be very bright, but I know what love is").
If you want to know about suspending a dingo, go here:
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~probs/mech/newt/1stNewton2/1stNewton2.html
pwc |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 10:27 pm: |
|
60ft of cable would be plenty IMHO
cause i'd just drive up the damn thing off camber in puckerland with a smile on my face. |
ryanspeed
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:01 pm: |
|
Peter,
lbs/s2 are not units of force
a newton is a measure of force
a kilogram is a measure of mass
a pound is a measure of force, relative to mass, as well (1N = 0.225lbs)
If you have a body mass of 70kg on earth, you will also on the moon.
If you weigh 155lbs (686Newtons) on earth, you don't on the moon because the acceleration of gravity is less.
1kN = 102kg X 9.8m/s/s
102kg X 2.2lbs/kg = 225lbs (on earth) |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:11 pm: |
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ryanspeed,
Yes, I understand that and mis-typed at the beinging of my post. If you read my whole post (please don't tell me you did) then you will see later I got my wording and facts more straight.
To quote Barbie "Math's hard."
pwc |
Todd W. McLain (Ganryu)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:05 am: |
|
My head hurts just having read those posts. I thought wheeling was supposed to be a redneck beer-drinkin sport, not the physics of putting the truck on top of the hill. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
|
then wise up Todd the days of BUBBA the redneck wheeler are getting replaced with duelie pickups pulling race trailers full of trailer queen rock buggies using the latest high tech gizmo
even a disco is old tech in todays 4x4 world |
LR Max
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:13 pm: |
|
If a disco is old, then what about my Series 3 parked right next to my disco!!??
I think everyone here is thinkin' about this too hard. I've spent too much time the web, I need to go wheelin'.
Max T.
I'm just tryin' to enjoy myself. If this gets to be like workin' then I'm out!! |
OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:22 pm: |
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I just wanted to add another section to what has to be the longest post I have seen here. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:49 pm: |
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No way...remember that rack post?! That was Much longer and there were all sorts of twists and turns too!! Oh My!!! |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:18 am: |
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LR,
Yes I agree, we are all thinking way too much about this but I am determined to get up the trail. There are so many trails here in colo that I have done...(not to say that I have come any where near running out of challanges) but this particular one has got me real bugged. I have never seen anyone get up it, aside from pictures and one video, and it is work but it is not real work. I heard a quoat that makes a bunch of sence to me, "The worst day of wheeling is better than the best day at work." I concur with that 100%. I would rather spend an entire day or two thinking and planning a trip, (hell I can't even sleep the night before a trip), than be at work and I even enjoy my job. (btw, I like the parenthases (sp) makes me feel like I am being artistic (sp))
This is not work, this is fun. The idea of driving a trail that is probably rated a 9+ with a vehicle that most consider a grocery getter is very apealing. And to be able to ask advice from people around the country, actually around the world from people that like the same type of experience is exciting to me a is far removed from the thought of work. Fixing and modifying the truck...(that is the work that I do in the garage to get away)is not work, that is fun. The next day when I come back to the real "work" and have to make the phone calls, make sure that I have all the paper work proper, return the messages, get blown off by people that don't have the guts to tell me no, cater to whims, listen to stories, throw time around like it is free, expend effort to make my mark my mark in the company, day dream and think about the next time I get to go out and see great country, drive the most capable and exciting vehicle in the world, unstuck a jeep or a GEO METRO (which I drove for a while)...make sure that the pen I just took was ordered propery...that is work I think. And too all that read this post will probably agree with me that wheeling of any sort should not be called work by any of us. There are many that will understand what I mean. |
Peter Carey (Pcarey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:53 am: |
|
I hear ya. One of my favorite phrases is "I'd rather be upside down in my kayak, that rightside up at my desk"
I don't think this applies to rovers for me though...
pwc |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 03:12 am: |
|
ROFLMAO!!!
.... And lovin it. Damn, I've missed y'all. I've been out and about, looks like I will be for just little bit longer ... (not too long, HAHA!! - "I'll be back!")
hehehe, Brian, (bless your sweet heart) ... Just get a trailer queen and a good helmet. ... (ones that you won't miss too much, hehe - ain't nothing wrong that! .... ) And, heed the very wise advice given here.
Peace and cheers!
Kim
Whoooo, I've been though D Web withdrawals ... FOUR happy faces, hehehehe |
Todd W. McLain (Ganryu)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 05:44 am: |
|
Muskyman,
My apologies ... a poor attempt at humor on my part.
Personaly, I think it would be rather humourous to be cruising down the trail only to find a couple of jokers at the next obstacle standing there with slide rules and calculaters determining whether their winch cable/piton/anchor is strong enough to pull this or that vehicle at such and such an angle.
Also, if the Discoery is already low tech, then you might want to go tell everybody in the "my ecu got wet and I can't go anywhere" thread. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:05 pm: |
|
Muskyman,
Now that is a visual.lol |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
|
no apologies needed in my direction
i think this is a fun thread...and when brian acts out the next chapter in this book it will get better
damn I'm about ready to come drive up the thing myself just to do it |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
|
"Muskyman,
Now that is a visual.lol"
Opps, that was for Todd.
I can just see a couple of geeks in plad pants and striped shirts, pocket protectors and all..snorting and pushing up their glasses...slide ruleing all over the place, and calculating stuff and then hopping in their 6 in lifted disco with 35" and just driving up the thing in one try and leaving me behind. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:47 pm: |
|
some times thats how it goes
saturday I was wheeling at our private little circuit with a couple buddies.
first I had a battery go bad on me then after a couple hours of driving a thermostat failed causing my normally super cool running scout to heat up a bit.
so I parked it and took the disco out to play, all my buddies with the jeeper meats and ARB's where just laughing saying i was just gonna get it stuck and have to go get the scout again to get it out.
well I didnt get stuck I just used common sence and good lines and some well placed moe to drive all our trails. I dove it down into one of our toughest trails over a 1 foot high tree that crosses it and came around to the exit a 50degree off camber stretch about 25 yards no doubt a roll over spot. after seing there was no way the disco was going up and out . my buddies quickly started looking for the easiest way out that would take the least cutting. while they where looking I kept looking at lines and options.
after a couple minuts I figured I had enough traction and run in area to get to the middle of the hill and with the stock tires I figured I would be able to spin the back end around half way up to get a good winch angle at least.
so I launched the truck into the hill ended up on 2 wheels as i expected spun the rear around and rolled back against the big fallen tree you need to cross on the way in. from there it was a pretty easy but tire spinning out of the obstacle.
this in a disco with stock tires at 40psi no lockers a 2" lift and smile.
that whole night and the whole next day all the whole group could talk about was that I did "barbwire bowl" in a stock truck after countless other trucks have failed with all the candy bolted on.
wheeling is and always will be a thinking mans game so just keep thinking ! |
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